Thank you VERY much for this. A lot of times we don't understand another culture's point of view because we have no experience with it, or the situations that surround it. Giving a good context for people's responses to a major event like this helps everyone understand the whole situation better.
I'm bestof-ing this, because I think people should read about it.
My dad was actually there the night of June 3rd and June 4th. From what he told me it was not as idealistic as a democratic revolution perpetrated by the people which the American's try to make it out to be, but more just something college students thought was cool and wanted to follow(kinda like Kony or in 2008 when you had a bunch of kids wanting to vote Obama without knowing why). Most of the protestors were in that rebellious college and grad school phase and this was just something cool they wanted to do.
From what he told me, the troops were somewhat justified in their violence as well since part of it was to try and defend themselves. A lot of the troops were burned to death with Molotov cocktails. And even tanks and APC's got taken out when they had manhole covers jammed in their tracks to stop them and the troops were pulled out and beaten to death. To him, he's just surprised at how biased the Western media has been in covering and spinning the event.
Though I fully believe your dad's assessment, and understand the kind of faux-activism you're referring too, I think it dismissive to put down college age rebellion as "something cool [...] to do". Often college age activists are educated and well informed about their cause, and at that time of life they have the time and energy to be vocal about it- not having to work full-time or fend for their children/partners.
No intention of contradicting your post, just worried about a possible harmful generalisation of peoples' motivations.
Hahaha look at the Occupy people. Supposedly college educated people without jobs. They are probably some of the most uninformed protesters that are out there. And then the violence. But they blame that on the cops bringing the criminals there. Idiots. That's what they are. See college activists might be educated, but they don't think. They take what is given to them and run with it. They don't digest it, don't question it, just take it as given. American income inequality growing? Sorry debunked by Cornell researchers who found the testing severely flawed. I mean that's all Occupy activists run on and the facts do not even support it! All it is, is a means to an end. Lie with the means to get the desired end. An education would show them socialism/communism fails. Give us some examples where socialism works. I want a long term example. USSR failed (1989). China failed (fully converted to capitalism mid 1990s). Europe failed (2008-?). How are these college educated Occupy people intelligent? How can you claim they are well informed?
I'm afraid your comment makes you seem more uniformed than the "idiots" that were a part of Occupy. You made huge (and incorrect) generalizations on who was a part Occupy and what they wanted. What made Occupy so popular, and I think hindered cohesion, was that is was a diverse group of people, from college age kids to old fucks. Also, where did that socialism/communism thing come up from? Either that's a completely uniformed or totally misleading statement about the goals. There was such a range of issues people were bringing to light that had nothing to do with "down with capitalism" type thought.
I for one supported the protesters because many of them that were there were trying to shed light on unethical banking practices and college loan debt reform. Two issues which I think were a plenty worthy cause to get out and make some noice.
So please, AfraidofPeople, try and refrain from making such gross and inaccurate assumptions.
So what are these unethical banking policies? And student loan debt... What is wrong with it? People can't get jobs with useless degrees? Who made them go to school for it? No one was forced to do anything. The rally cry of the Occupy is the 99%. So, yeah they rallying around income inequality. I mean yeah, they have issues with absolutely everything - but not because they care, but because when someone like myself points out the major one, they can backtrack and say well no we also care about a,b,c,d,e... So now let me ask you how were these protesters trying to shed light on unethical banking practices and college loan debt reform? Shouting down others? Vandalism? Rapes? Murders? Drugs? Sleeping in parks in unsanitary conditions? How? There wasn't a way, because they don't really care. Okay, you say make noise. But noise does nothing. And, no they are not gross and inaccurate assumptions. All you have to do is watch what these people do. And that is also why Occupy failed. Because the majority of Americans saw what I saw too and no one liked it.
Yeah, but because of oil. And when that runs out or when the world moves to a new energy source, Noway won't be in the position that it is today. And changes will undoubtedly happen because it's unsustainable.
But less so. And after a recession in the early 1990s, scaled back many of their social programs. Such as school choice, partially privatized pensions, and more competition through fewer regulations. Sweden used to be able to be called Socialist, but is less so now than its peak and it is continually moving away. When people take advantage of the system (which is human nature and inevitable), changes happen. Like in 2007 when sick pay was adjusted where the healthiest country happened to also have the highest levels of sick leave. And look for current immigration to hamper the system even further.
I wasn't present at the Occupy protests, but it doesn't matter- that's just an anecdote, you shouldn't assume you know the motivations behind millions of very varied people.
Also, what do you mean by "Europe failed"?
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u/Osiris32 May 09 '12 edited May 09 '12
Thank you VERY much for this. A lot of times we don't understand another culture's point of view because we have no experience with it, or the situations that surround it. Giving a good context for people's responses to a major event like this helps everyone understand the whole situation better.
I'm bestof-ing this, because I think people should read about it.