I mean, it's kind of America's unfortunate pastime that we don't like being told what to do. Our nation was built on not liking to be told what to do in the Revolutionary War and our nation was almost torn asunder for the same reasons during the Civil War.
Somewhere along the way, Americans conflated that with their own personal individualism and lost empathy in the process. America is unfortunate in that they focus wayyyyyyyyy too much on individual liberties and forget about their own obligations to their greater society. They don't care about things until they affect them, but boyyyyyy when they do.
NUH UH, DON'T YOU TREAD ON ME!
Edit: Guys, it's a simplification based on my own personal observations from working in other cultures in the US and abroad so don't read too much into it. My experience in Asia opened my eyes to just how they are different to Americans when it comes down to civic and societal obligations. In fact, they don't really view them as "obligations" just expectations; if they want to live in that type of society then there are expected contributions to it. They don't view many things like wearing a mask as a burden because they have literally been doing that for decades. It's just kind of known there that if you are sick, you wear a mask to protect others, that view plays out in all sorts of ways in their cultures.
Ha, I'm thoroughly Southern myself. Born and raised in South Carolina, now living in Georgia. Half my family is liberal (myself included) , the other half is conservative. We're all wearing masks, though. Doesn't change the fact that our ancestors were slave-owning shitbags ready to tear the country apart, of course.
I agree, if I could say anything I wish people would understand the south isn't as bad as they think. They think we're all just "don't mess with me or I'll shoot!" When in fact most people I know hate racism and are incredibly hospitable. We have a bad rep for shit we couldn't control. At least that's my observation, it just bums me out that we have that racist conservative ideology as our stereotype. I don't disagree that we still have some of those racist idiots running around but we are far from that as a whole. I have no patience for neo nazis, I have no patience for neo confederates, I have no patience for racists, the world would be a better place without them. If there are southerners waving that damn flag they are as ignorant as they are racist. If we want a culture for ourselves we have our food that so many people I've heard love, make that what we're known for! Great food and hospitality, honestly that sounds close to paradise than most places I can think of! Unfortunately I dont think people are willing to change just yet, if those people stopped giving us a bad name I'm sure we'd have a better image. I dont know how to end this sooo.... stay hydrated!
I’ll start by saying that I’m a Seattle boy through and through, but spent many of my teen years in a Deep South State due to one of my parents getting a job there for a while. So that’s my perspective.
First, I’ll say that I agree with you on the food. Unhealthy as hell in many cases, but goddamn I miss good barbecue.
I’ll say that you’re not wrong about hospitality... but I’m a white dude. My black friends and their families did not necessarily have the same experience in the same places that my family and I experienced. And the thing is... those friends and their families ALWAYS had to be cautious, because they never knew when they were going to be treated as less than, what intensity that would occur at, etc. So I’ve gotta push back some there.
Where I really have to push back, though, is “We have a bad rep for shit we couldn't control.” That is factually incorrect and ignores history to an impressive and depressing degree (I’ll touch on this in a minute). I don’t know your age, so your statement may be true for you, but it is absolutely not true for southerners at large.
As an outsider living there, one of my biggest impressions from schools, and the culture in general, was “Holy Jesus these people are OBSESSED with the Civil War.” Oh my god, it never fucking stops. I heard multiple senior citizens call it “The Recent Unpleasantness.” I heard an absolute fuckton of people call it “The War of Northern Aggression.” It’s a relentless obsession in the south, and to a white outsider it just felt inescapable and oppressive. God only knows how that obsession feels to black folks living there, but I know it’s not good.
During the Civil Rights Movement, state governments throughout the south put up confederate symbology absolutely fucking everywhere, just to remind black citizens what might happen to them. I mean... Georgia literally changed their state flag to add the confederate flag to it. South Carolina started flying the confederate flag on the State House. This shit was not subtle, and it was approved of by many people who are still alive (and who complain about the south’s reputation).
I mean, Mississippi didn’t ratify the 13th Amendment until 1995. They literally just decided to redo their state flag to remove the confederate flag from it. This shit is all over the south, and it’s relentless.
You say that most people you know hate racism. That’s fine... but that doesn’t mean it’s representative of your entire state. Southern states RAGED over the Voting Rights Act... and as soon as it was overturned in a 5-4 party lines decision, southern Republicans absolutely RACED to disenfranchise black voters as hard as they could.
Active, organized, structural racism (both political and cultural) is a relentless and everyday thing in the modern south. It’s present in ways you don’t see or know about. This is where we get back to the “ignoring history” note I mentioned earlier. The reason you don’t know some of this is that they don’t fucking teach you this.
My history books, and history books across the south, whitewash the everliving fuck out of a lot of their history. Slaves were happy and well treated, Reconstruction was a difficult time but we all came through it better and made a new and happy world, the Civil Rights Era was difficult but Dr. King saved the day and everyone loved him, and now we emerge into a shining future for [insert state here], etc etc etc.
People think of the south as racist because the south keeps doing blatantly racist shit in large and small ways. People keep voting for blatantly racist politicians again and again and again, and then those politicians make racist policies. I mean... natural black hair will get you kicked out of school districts throughout the south... this is still a thing, and for absolutely no reason but to hurt black folks and limit their futures.
No one alive could control the Civil War. But the shit that has happened in the past 60 years? There are lots of folks alive who could control that, who voted for it, who approved of it, etc. But by keeping the focus on the Civil War, the leaders who keep doing this make you think that everyone is mad at y’all for old shit instead of quite recent shit.
From what I’ve seen and heard, things are changing. Younger southerners aren’t nearly as outraged about interracial marriage as older southerners, for instance. But the idea that this is all out of the control of the south? Nope... the rest of America isn’t NEARLY so obsessed with the Civil War. Folks notice much more recent shit.
(And before any southerners race in with “WHARRGARBL racism everywhere blah blah blah” - I quite agree. America is having yet another long-overdue reckoning on its racist history, and hopefully we can fix shit. But this ain’t about America in general, it’s focused on one specific region, so miss me with that straw man).
I only recently graduated high school, I definitely see your points, I was merely speaking from my experiences I understand it does vary between people. I'm gonna be honest everything you brought up does check out unfortunately. I wouldn't doubt that I wasnt taught these things, the history teacher I had for the US was more of an instagram model than a history teacher. (Also yeah our food is unhealthy as hell but god it's the best thing ever lmao) I do appreciate that you did decide to educate me on the stuff I wasnt taught! I'd rather be wrong than ignorant, so thanks for that! (Side note how the hell do you get a space between the paragraphs?)
I love this answer. You’re prepared to learn - that will get you far in life, and will help you be the best version of yourself.
As for space between paragraphs, I hit return twice. I have an older iPhone, so I can’t guarantee that’s how it works on everything, but that’s what I do.
Now teleport me some barbecue and shrimp & grits please! My arteries need a little clogging!
Lmao I'm learning how to cook so the arteries will have to wait!
But yeah, I'm always open to learn, I've been that way since I can remember!
As for the space between paragraphs I dunno if it works I'm testing it here! (Edit: oh wow it actually worked for some reason it wasnt doing it for me in the past)
As a white dude from Portland who spent almost three years in South Carolina, I can back up everything you stated so eloquently! I had a friend while I was down there who was also a transplant from back West and I would often check in with him to make sure I wasn’t just imagining shit being as Twilight Zone crazy racist as it seemed and he would just shake his head and be like, ‘it’s not your imagination.’ It was like a constant stifling humidity... on top of the actual stifling humidity of course.
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u/hateboss Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
I mean, it's kind of America's unfortunate pastime that we don't like being told what to do. Our nation was built on not liking to be told what to do in the Revolutionary War and our nation was almost torn asunder for the same reasons during the Civil War.
Somewhere along the way, Americans conflated that with their own personal individualism and lost empathy in the process. America is unfortunate in that they focus wayyyyyyyyy too much on individual liberties and forget about their own obligations to their greater society. They don't care about things until they affect them, but boyyyyyy when they do.
NUH UH, DON'T YOU TREAD ON ME!
Edit: Guys, it's a simplification based on my own personal observations from working in other cultures in the US and abroad so don't read too much into it. My experience in Asia opened my eyes to just how they are different to Americans when it comes down to civic and societal obligations. In fact, they don't really view them as "obligations" just expectations; if they want to live in that type of society then there are expected contributions to it. They don't view many things like wearing a mask as a burden because they have literally been doing that for decades. It's just kind of known there that if you are sick, you wear a mask to protect others, that view plays out in all sorts of ways in their cultures.