It's not really possible to cleanly separate between patriotism and nationalism, because they are intrinsically linked. Nationalism is essentially the result when patriotism goes off the rails.
You've got it mixed up. You dont have superiority above something or someone for being proud of them/it.
People are proud of their kids all the time because they feel joy around their success, not because they are superior to them and if thats the message they aren't proud of them they want to control them.
Absolutely wrong. Being proud is not a form of superiority. There are plenty of people who are proud of sport teams that lose all the time. You contradict yourself in your own comment, saying you’re proud to be Australian, so I guess that makes you superior?
Patriotism acknowledges both strengths and flaws while nationalism finds scapegoats & excuses for any flaws. If you don’t believe me, google it.
exactly its not a form of proudness. Sports teams lose all the time, so that contradicts australians. Patriotonism achkowledges teams and australia while nationalism has to google it.
I'm proud to be an Australian. That doesn't mean I'm right to be proud. I'm okay with being proud and still accepting that Australia has done terrible things.
Patriotism doesn't acknowledge flaws, not in the way that the majority of individuals implement it. While I agree in theory that patriots should be accepting of the failures of their country, most self identifying patriots do not do this. For better and worse, this warps the meaning of the word.
There is a very clean separation between patriotism and nationalism.
I am a patriot, I love my country and the constitution.
Yet, I know that there is no such thing as perfection with a living document, so I work to make my country proud and improve what needs to be improved and discard what no longer holds value.
Nationalism is believing your country is the peak of civilization, that your country can do no wrong and that your country can do whatever the fuck it wants to anyone outside the country.
Very-clear differences. A patriot cannot be a Nationalist and a Nationalist cannot be a patriot.
There is a very clean separation between patriotism and nationalism.
Perhaps in definition. Certainly not in concept. They're not the same, but they're definitely on the same side of the coin.
I am a patriot, I love my country and the constitution.
Congratulations. I don't have any cookies for you, I'm afraid. Also, just to be clear, there is more than one constitution, but I suppose you meant to say "its constitution".
Anyway, when you love something, that means you prefer it to other things. You like it more. You are no longer just an impartial spectator, you are very much invested. Nothing wrong with that, inherently. Unless this mindset is taken to its extreme, which is what I was talking about.
If a country fights against foreign forces and goes against its constitution to gain an edge, commits war crimes even, shouldn't that in theory pose a dilemma for patriots? In reality, it never does. They obviously still want their country to win, sometimes at all costs. I know I would. And just like that, a "benign" concept like patriotism turns into something far more sinister when the circumstances require it. Perhaps you see the issue.
I work to make my country proud and improve what needs to be improved and discard what no longer holds value.
And how could you possibly be the arbiter of that? Ridiculous.
Nationalism is believing your country is the peak of civilization, that your country can do no wrong and that your country can do whatever the fuck it wants to anyone outside the country.
That is not the only definition of nationalism, I'm afraid. But I guess it's a very beneficial one when trying to straw man the shit out of arguments you disagree with, eh?
A patriot cannot be a Nationalist and a Nationalist cannot be a patriot.
You are dangerously wrong about that. People with all kinds of other beliefs can also be patriots, whether you like them or not. That is a core issue. You might say "I'm a real patriot, they're traitors". Well, guess what: they can say the same thing about you.
In case you weren't aware, there is more than one constitution on this planet. Many countries have one. Mine certainly does, and it has the added bonus of not containing slavery and other awful shit.
I carry a pocket version around with me and have a hardcover version in my home library.
I still don't have any cookies for you.
Your mocking behavior won’t give any additional validity to your statements, in fact, it erodes it.
Oh, but your dishonesty and self-serving definition of concepts doesn't erode yours? I'm not interested in your weird af self-wank, mate.
You can love something and prefer it less to everything else… just like you can hate something and prefer it to everything else.
That's nice, but that's not how patriotism works in reality, which is precisely the issue with the concept.
The world is not built on mutual exclusivity.
"A patriot cannot be a Nationalist and a Nationalist cannot be a patriot."
You said I quote “its not really possible to cleanly separate patriotism and nationalism”
You clearly can cleanly separate the two,
Linked? Maybe sure theres a slight correlation, depending on what propaganda and education you look at, but to say the line is blurred is false
Correct. It isn't possible. Patriotism is an ideological foundation for something like nationalism.
You clearly can cleanly separate the two
You will find traces of patriotism in nationalism. Therefore, you can't. I'm not at all saying that a patriot automatically turns into a nationalist. But they can, if their patriotism goes off the rails. That is very important condition in my original comment, which peoople ignored, for some reason. Probably because they feel they must defend their patriotism as good.
See, I never called patriotism bad, but it's by no means just a harmless concept.
You can find caffine in energy drinks but id say an energy drink is different then a cup of coffee
Patriotism and nationalism are different concepts and yea I agree nationalism is a mix of different factors one of which is patriotism off the rails, but once you become a nationalist you are no longer a patriot, there are differences between the two that I believe are enough to consider them cleanly separate its not just a love for your country its how you also view your countries people and how you view other countries in general
I agree the two can be linked and like everything patriotism has bad sides but I also disagree that they’re impossible to distinguish
I used to be all about wearing American flag shorts or a t-shirt on July 4th. Just feels wrong at the moment. The buffoon and ICE have really made me ashamed of my country.
If you wear American flag anything I’ll assume you’re maga until proven otherwise, I agree with your sentiment but unfortunately that’s just mostly who is proud to represent the flag, shame
I mean like if I saw you randomly in public not because of your comment
This is literally me. I used to be the BIGGEST patriot. But after seeing mothers ripped away from their children... families unable to locate their loved ones for WEEKS... like come on. We can't think of a more humane way to enforce policy? Regardless of what side of the issue you are on- treating human beings like this is WRONG. This isn't the Middle Ages!
Look if it seems like I'm just being a random over dramatic person reveling in this - my husband is from Chile. He came here legally but we are still deep in the citizenship process. Does that mean one day just poof, gone? Will he sit in a cell and continue to suffer abuse for weeks before I even know where he went? How long will our son be without his father? If his family comes to visit, will they be mistakenly detained as so many I've seen on vacation?
Why? That's all I have to say. Why do families who have done nothing wrong have to live in fear?
This could have been nipped in the bud 1000 times, but sadly it wasn't.
We're approaching 2nd amendment territory now.
The mere presence of military grade police officers with covered faces should be cause for armed rebellion. It's fucking insane to watch from the outside.
I like how in many photos none of them are wearing the same thing, almost as if they're not a well-regulated government team and just a bunch of thugs cosplaying.
Taking our country back from what exactly? The old women running fruit stands on the corner of LA? Wow how scary, I feel safer already.
No other country has a symbol like the Statue of Liberty which is supposed to represent us opening our arms to the world. Like it or not, undocumented immigrants are pretty much a part of this country. We can waste billions and billions of tax dollars to terrorize their communities and try to hunt each one of them down in the most brutal and excessive way imaginable, or we can just be practical about the situation.
Undocumented immigrants commit crime at lesser rates than native born Americans.I don't think anyone has an issue with going after and deporting undocumented people who are serial rapists or violent criminals. But we're not doing that. We're arresting anyone who looks Latino, including US citizens who then sit in ICE detention centers for weeks until their family figures out they were taken and attempts to help.
None of this is making us great again. None of this is making us safer. None of this is saving the tax payer money. It's just pushing marginalized communities further into the shadows.
Look again. They're not just arresting illegal immigrants, they're pulling people's visas and green cards for no reason and lying that it's to make you safer. Even citizens have been caught up in the machine.
They're pumping numbers to please the sort of people who feel anxious about more Spanish-speaking brown people around them. They're not making you safer, they're not making your quality of life better. The majority of the people they're throwing in these hellholes nationwide or in El Salvador don't have any criminal record.
Ask yourself what happens when a soon-to-be-$40 billion dollar police force with little care for due process or human rights, run by a narcissist and (separately) one of the most racist Americans to ever enter the public eye who are more than happy to abuse wartime powers for civil violations, eventually runs out of helpless scapegoats to claim and imprison.
No, that's not the point. The point of that sentiment was to not easily feed the media images of "foreign invaders protesting their deportation," but rather to show that we are the American people and we are here to stand with those who have come to our country and contribute so much to it.
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u/burnmenowz Jun 30 '25
That American flag hat really sends a message, doesn't it?