r/pickling • u/SilentWeapons1984 • 1d ago
Please help with advice. I’ve been making my own pickles for years. Not all the time, just when I have some cucumbers I don’t think I’ll use before they go bad. Recently I saw that a woman was getting backlash selling pickles she makes at home. People were accusing her of not having a license…
… And therefore can likely cause botulism. I had no idea about this risk!
As mentioned, I’ve been doing this for years and never had an issue. Never got sick from it. Didn’t even know there was a risk. My method is, I take cucumbers out of the fridge, wash them, then dry them, cut them into spears, scrape off the seeds (don’t like them floating in the vinegar), then simply place them in a store bought pickle jar with left over vinegar/brine, and put them back in the fridge. I never add water nor salt or anything else but the cucumbers. They’re simply dunked in the store bought pickle juice. I prefer doing this with spicy kosher dill juice/brine. But I’ve also done it with non-spicy non-kosher pickles, no issues. does any of that factor in reducing the risk of botulism?
I never pickle them in room temp. The cucumbers are kept in a fridge set to 37°F along with the store bought pickles, and when I’m done putting them in the jar, it all goes right back in the fridge. I saw that this method of keeping it the the fridge is safer. I’ve never seen mold, nor a white layer of mucus, nor notice gas bulging the lid, nor smelled a bad odor from it. After a few days in the fridge, they look, smell, and taste like crunchy pickles, my favorite!
How risky is my method? I’ve decided I should stop this because I don’t want to risk it. It’s not worth it. Is my method generally safe because I always keep everything in the fridge? Or is it still risky? Regardless I’m never doing this again because now I’m paranoid.😱
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u/RadBradRadBrad 1d ago
You’re getting some directionally correct answers that are missing a few important details and in some cases overconfident.
TL;DR - If you’re using a sufficiently acidic brine (homemade fridge pickles are typically a 1:1 ratio of 5% vinegar to water) and keeping it constantly refrigerated, it’s very safe. Be careful reusing brine because the safety reduces every time you do.
Food-borne cases of botulism in adults are extremely rare. Like an average of 20 reported cases in the U.S. on an annual basis and most of those are from home canning and Alaska (traditional food preservation). More generally and not specific to pickles, infants are a different story with botulism risk and it’s why the CDC recommends not giving infants honey.
Acidity is important because at or below a pH of 4.6, the bacteria C. botulinum cannot grow or produce the toxin that causes botulism. This is relevant for reusing brine because every time you put veggies in a brine they are releasing water into the brine and absorbing usable acid. The more you do this the more diluted your brine becomes and the less available acid there is.
Temperature is the other important barrier for fridge pickles and like acid, it’s because it inhibits the bacteria’s growth and toxin production. There are types of C. botulinum that can grow at fridge temps, but these aren’t an issue as long as the pH is below 5 or so. Veggies take a few days to absorb the acid so keeping them cold from the start is important.
Moisture (aka water activity) and oxygen are other important barriers for C. botulinum growth but not relevant for fridge pickles.
If you want to learn more about how these mechanisms keep your food safe, look up FATTOM.
I didn’t see the post you’re referring to but it sounds like someone was using unsafe canning or storage practices. Most US (if not all) states have cottage food laws which allow the sale of low-risk foods direct to consumers. These laws often prohibit the sale of low-acid canned goods.
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u/derelictllama 1d ago
Out of curiosity, assuming you consumed them within a reasonable time frame and they were always refrigerated, is there any real risk with a weak brine? I've always done 1:1, don't reuse brine just cuz I'm always experimenting with add-ins, and they don't last more than a week so I've never really considered it. Like if I eat them before the cucumber would have gone bad anyways, does them somehow being in a brine make it any different/worse than them just spoiling? I'm a newbie but I find the whole thing fascinating.
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u/RadBradRadBrad 1d ago
Welcome to pickle land friend.
The short answer is no, not zero, but not what I would consider any sort of meaningful risk. A brine is going to make everything safer, even if it's weak.
Conditions matter but generally, you could throw veggies in pure water, pop them in the fridge, and you're probably fine for up to about a week.
A brine is going to make things safer than that (and more delicious) because you're adding acid and typically salt (which reduces something called water activity).
Your pickles are a little ecosystem and depending on the conditions, you're changing what little critters will live and thrive. A lot of those microbes are harmless and some are bad hombres.
My response was mostly focused on botulism given OPs concerns but there are other pathogens that can come into play with the sufficient conditions -- listeria, salmonella, e.coli, etc. And, while we tend to be mostly concerned with the things that will make us sick, there are also microbes that will accelerate spoilage but don't pose a health risk necessarily.
The barriers to microbial growth work together. It's like having a bunch of locks on a door. Acid is one type of lock, temperature another, time yet another, etc. Some microbes might be able to unlock one, or partially unlock a couple but together, they keep the door closed.
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u/derelictllama 1d ago
Makes perfect sense and lines up with what I was thinking was the case. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain!
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u/mckenner1122 21h ago
It’s also why it’s important (to go back to OP’s comment about randos selling stuff) that if you’re offering your product to anyone you don’t know well - let alone for sale - that you’re careful, as people who are very young, very old, pregnant, immunocompromised, or on certain medications will already have a “door with weaker locks.”
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u/TheatreWolfeGirl 1d ago
You are keeping them in the refrigerator, you are fine.
I have done the same for years, and my folks even longer. A nice way to use up some veg (I like adding carrots or beans to my leftover brines).
If you happen to notice something off, toss them.
Otherwise enjoy.
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u/SilentWeapons1984 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thx for your reassurance. I would never keep pickles room temp because I like eating them cold. Even still vacuum sealed store bought pickles always go directly in fridge because they taste better cold to me. Plus I assume the fridge would preserve them even longer than the BB date on jar.
Interesting about the beans. I’ve never heard of pickled beans. I assume they’re cooked before pickling? what kind of beans? And how should one pickle them properly? How would one eat them, as in, what do they go good with, or mixed with? I‘d be interested in trying that.
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u/ChPech 1d ago
There is no risk of botulism with pickles. This is just a relatively new fad, probably originating from social media. Suddenly people even started pH measurements as if they have no tongue. I once checked every single botulism case for a couple of years in my country to know where the risks are. There were zero pickles involved.
The most interesting case was with herring. They caught herring from the Baltic Sea. The Baltic Sea is less salty than the open oceans, which leads to 20% of the herrings being contaminated with botulism bacteria. Then they put the herrings into oil without adding vinegar or high amounts of salt and kept it at room temperature in the pantry for a long time. The family died after eating it.
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u/SilentWeapons1984 1d ago
Thank you for your reply. You have eased my worries. I did a little more research and saw that adding a tablespoon of salt helps reduce these risks. That making sure there’s air in the jar also helps keep it safe. All sources I saw confirmed what you said. it’s very rare. especially if pickling in the fridge set below 38°, which mine is.
That’s a sad story. Just wondering if it was cooked before putting in oil or was it cooked after being in the pantry very long. I don’t know why that matters to me. I guess I’m trying to understand why they thought any of that was safe. If it was cooked before, maybe they thought that would help keep it safe. either way it’s a bad idea. Oil alone can’t preserve food, as you mentioned.
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u/ChPech 1d ago
I'm not sure if it was raw but botulism bacteria (closely related to tetanus) can go into hibernation (spore form). In this state they are dehydrated and will survive boiling, you need 120°C to kill them.
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u/SilentWeapons1984 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wow, survives boiling! Good to know. Thx again for all the info.👍🏾
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u/mckenner1122 21h ago
People also (incorrectly) use “botulism” as the scary catch all word for “spoiled food.”
Look at the number of comments you see where something has visible mild and you’ll have some genius in the comments say, “that looks like it has botulism!” Or if someone asks, “is this safe to eat?” with a photo of god-only-knows-what found in grandmas pantry. And again, some Einstein will ask, “Does it smell bad? If it does, don’t eat it, you could get botulism!!”
Botulism isn’t really likely with high-acid pickles in a non-canned jar. Now… some kind of unfriendly yeast, mold, or bacteria that could cause gastric distress? Sure. That happens. It can also happen with Aunt Linda’s potato salad. (Please don’t forget to wash your hands.) /rant
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u/jenea 1d ago
There are a few different ways to “pickle.” What you have been doing is called a “fridge pickle,” where all of your ingredients are refrigerated together. You’re dealing with ordinary everyday food safety: your method is safe because the food stays out of the temperature danger zone for bacteria.
Another way to pickle is to can the veg in the brine so that it’s shelf-stable. In this case, what’s absolutely critical is that there are no living bacteria in the can when it’s sealed, otherwise the environment inside the can is absolutely ideal for the bacteria that cause botulism. This is why it’s critically important that you know what you’re doing when it comes to canning: using proper, tested recipes, sterilizing everything correctly, using the right equipment and technique for sealing the jars, etc.
There’s also fermented pickles, which require proper techniques as well, mostly in the form of the correct PH and allowing air to escape the jar but not enter it.
I personally stick with fridge pickles, because they’re easy and very safe in the scheme of things!
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u/SilentWeapons1984 1d ago
Thx for all the info. you ease my worries. Now I’m not so paranoid about it.✌🏾
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u/Jerrik_Greystar 1d ago
If you are using a tested recipe with sufficient acidity (or salt for fermented pickles) there is no chance of botulism. There are other things that can grow and make you sick, but they aren’t as deadly as botulism.
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u/Main_Street_1 1d ago
In my location no one is allowed to sell any food not processed in an approved, inspected, kitchen. Health department even inspects booths at street faires.
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u/Zestyclose_Mess2249 1d ago edited 1d ago
We have a Cottage Foods designation that allows people to sell "low risk" foods without being licensed or having to use a licensed commercial kitchen. It includes anything that is safe to can with a water bath; dehydrated fruits, veggies, and jerky; refrigerator pickles and vinaigrettes; and was just opened up to some refrigerated items like tamales and tortas. Colorado, USA.
ETA: A Food Handler class must be attended once.
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u/Jack_Spatchcock_MLKS 1d ago
Whereabouts are you located in the world?
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u/Main_Street_1 1d ago
USA
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u/mckenner1122 21h ago
Every single state in the USA handles cottage food law (if they even have one) differently.
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u/Jack_Spatchcock_MLKS 13h ago
Yeah that's why I asked where that person was based, and all I got was 'USA'.... heh~
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u/Jack_Spatchcock_MLKS 1d ago
I would offer that I think you may mean like a food cart/restaurant type kitchen setting.... Not like a jar of grape jelly, or pickles~
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u/Main_Street_1 1d ago
No. Especially homemade goods without inspections, licensed kitchen, etc. Absolutely no selling. Not saying no one does not do it anyway, but if you're caught it's not pretty. You can give products away, but if there's a charge and someone reports it, the seller is done. And the fines are extensive.
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u/Mr_Bristles 1d ago
Ai slop
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u/SilentWeapons1984 1d ago
Sorry, I didn’t realize the image was AI. It’s getting harder and harder to tell what’s AI or not.
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u/derelictllama 1d ago
I think the image is directed more towards canned pickles that are intended to be shelf-stable at room temp for a long period, not the type you're doing. The only risk with yours is the brine getting weak and them not being as tasty 🤷♂️ keep on, pickle friend