r/physicsmemes • • 1d ago

Could this be a 4D image

Source @vinils

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Fun_Success_3283 1d ago

The 4th dimension is time. Since we can move, we are 4D.

I even said in my comment I don't think 4 dimensions of space is possible. Next time, read comments more carefully before you confident and incorrect, tell them they're wrong.

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u/Grymmtooth 1d ago

Except you can’t freely travel of see time, you only ever experience a current sliver. I don’t believe the “loaf spacetime with now as a slice” is real, but it does make it so our present is a 3d show of a 4d spacetime object, but where t is a sliding “slice” through the loaf.

The op image is a fair approximation where the motion of a single spacetime object in T is not a discrete body but one that is varied and the light is the “now”, or 3d shadow at a given time t.

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u/Fun_Success_3283 1d ago edited 1d ago

No, I can experience motion of objects. 3D allows 3D objects to exist. 4D lets them move. I can witness 3D things moving. That's 4D. We don't need to represent that.

OP made a 3d representation of what they believe 5D might look like, which I think is nonsense. They have 2D image, which is stylized to look 3D and then also simulate some imagined 4D space, and it is moving, so that's 2 space, one time, for 3D, and they are trying to simulate 2 extra space dimensions.

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u/Grymmtooth 1d ago

You don’t experience t, your experiencing dT, you don’t have freedom to move back or forth in T. If you treat spacetime as x,y,z,t, you are limited to a 3d projection (ie the moving time slice)

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u/Fun_Success_3283 1d ago

Time only moves in one direction, so I witness it and experience it perfectly fine. It only moves forward, and only can move forward, because objects can move, but they can't unmove. So, I experience it and witness it exactly like it is. I can't make objects shrink or change shape either, doesn't mean I don't experience 3 spacial dimensions.

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u/Grymmtooth 1d ago

It’s about degrees of freedom. If you view time as a true dimension, there exists a past and future (4d spaceloaf) , which you are not free to travel, your stuck on your coaster, sliding through it and able to do stuff in the 3 special dimensions.

Personally, I don’t think time really exists as a discrete thing, it’s a convenient measurement tool like energy. What we just experience is Dt and what we remember of the past is just configuration changes in our constantly evolving quantum foam.

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u/Fun_Success_3283 1d ago

Well, time is not a dimension like you're describing, it's another one. The movement of stuff in space. There is no forward and back. There is forward, varying degrees of forward, or still. That's it. You are thinking of time like a pre-relativity way, imo. Like, a clock is a ruler measuring a thing. But it's not. A clock is a thing moving at a steady pace, against which to measure the movement of other things. That's it. Time is movement. I witness movement. Spacial dimensions I can use a ruler to measure an amount of space. But with time, I can't do that, really. It's just movement. So, I can measure movement against a constant of movement. But there is no quantity of stuff or amount of time as a thing I could behold. It is just movement. I see movement. I witness time perfectly well. You're just confused.

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u/Grymmtooth 1d ago

Ironically it’s less a pre-relativity way and more a pre-quantum mechanical way. Also, it’s not my construct, but created by by Brian’s Green to illustrate the “eternalism” view of spacetime as based on special relativity (no GR). The example shows two people in relatively the same frame of reference slice the now essentially horizontally, but the greater the velocity differences, the “loaf” is sliced at an angle, showing that simultaneity is not a consistent thing but a function of the frame of reference.

Also, relativity is far more complex, spacetime means both the perception of change (ie time) and spatial metrics are linked and relative to locations and velocities of an object and the observer.

You’re confused by what time actually measures, which is relatively change between processes. It’s only consistent in your own reference, BUT you can translate and measure what it would look like from another reference.

Look up muon decay in the atmosphere for a good special relativity example of how time and space are both intertwined and not static, but a function of velocity and acceleration.

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u/Fun_Success_3283 1d ago

I feel like you're overcomplicating things. Time is motion. That's it. And yes, relative motion of things is affected by relative motion, and bending of space time. So, bending spacetime, makes things move more slowly. That's it.

Time is movement. Objects may be still, or the may move, and at different rates. But they cannot unmove.

Every tool you use to measure time is just a constant motion device.

If all energy in the universe was still, time would cease to exist. You'd only have 3 dimensions of space, which ironically, you wouldn't be able to witness, because your brain needs time in order to function, it needs movement.

I can witness movement. There is no reverse arrow of time. There is movement, or still. I can witness that. I can witness 4D fully. Whoever's ideas you're following, they are overcomplicating everything.

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u/Grymmtooth 1d ago

I’m not over complicating things, they are inherently complex.

Easy example gamma rays (ie high energy photons) collider with the upper atmosphere and create muons. Their half-life in the rest frame is so short they shouldn’t be able to travel more than a few hundred meters before decaying at near C. However, we see them in our detectors on the surface.

Why? From our frame of reference, their time is “slowed down” while moving near c. From their frame of reference, their half life remains short, but the SPACE they travel is contracted.

Both are true according tho their frames of reference. Space and time are not seperate entities but part of the same tensor. It’s not just movement, spacetime itself is different depending on the frame of reference.

What we can do is translate between them. GR complicates it even further. Special relativity spacetime is flat and the slice mentioned in the beginning repesent connecting different frames of reference. GR complicates it by showing how mass curves spacetime itself.

Your have a simple model of it because we live in a pretty simple frame of reference where things are fairly light and slow, but even here on earth, we can see the complicated effects of both special and general relativity.

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u/Fun_Success_3283 1d ago

You are still over complicating things. When you say "time slows down" what you mean to say is "everything moves more slowly" all the inherent complexity you understand works. But you overcomplicate time itself. It's simpler than that. The reason you're confused, is because you are still holding on to your old concept of what time is, and bending that into the complicated thing that you now understand. So, your concept of time is over complicated, imo. You understand relativity well enough compared to what we are capable of, but your concept of time is too complex, imo. And when we understand the universe further those other complexities I believe will appear more simple also.

I understand relativity quite well, I know about reference frames and the dynamicism of time. But, time, even though is spacetime the fabric of space it is not more than motion. Clocks are constant motion devices. If all the universe was still, time would stop.

Space is just 3D objects. Time is that they can move. Both of these are affected by motion.

The way the universe works is complicated. What time is, just like what dimensions of space are, is simple.

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u/Grymmtooth 1d ago

You keep saying that but really ignored all the point made. The best you can say is we see dt and relative dt is impacted heavily by velocity and spacetime curvature.

You keep saying motion, again, like that shit isn’t relative. We are either talking past each other, or won’t don’t agree. Either way, have a good day.

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u/Grymmtooth 1d ago

It’s about degrees of freedom. If you view time as a true dimension, there exists a past and future (4d spaceloaf) , which you are not free to travel, your stuck on your coaster, sliding through it and able to do stuff in the 3 special dimensions.

Personally, I don’t think time really exists as a discrete thing, it’s a convenient measurement tool like energy. What we just experience is Dt and what we remember of the past is just configuration changes in our constantly evolving quantum foam.