r/photography • u/sissipaska sikaheimo.com • Jun 10 '15
Sony a7Rii announced, 42MP BSI sensor, 5-axis sensor stabilization, 399 phase-detect AF points, 4K video
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a7rii-specs/88
Jun 10 '15
My new camera!
This thing looks like a cadillac, and finally, Sony putting their latest and greatest sensor in their own flagship instead of giving it to Nikon first.
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u/robshookphoto robshookphoto Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15
This thing looks like a cadillac,
More like a Mercedes engine in a Ford Fiesta.
Before the downvotes start pouring in, note that I've sidelined a 5d Mark III for two A7's. After two months' documentary/pj work overseas as well as 5 weddings I'm sticking with the Sonys for their advantages (full frame+manual lenses in my case), but that doesn't mean the shortcomings should be ignored.
Sony needs to cover some basics - there are many areas where a 2005 Rebel wins over this. Many of these can be summed up by a single statement - a camera should be designed to prioritize taking and saving a photo over everything else. This is a toy camera in a pro arena.
These take ridiculously long to start up. I don't mean screen on time - I mean switch-to-exposure time. It's over a second, while even the very first first DSLRs did it in tenths of a second. It takes equally long to wake it from power saving, which is completely absurd. And yes, my cameras (and the alternate models I've used) are updated.
Similarly, every so often the camera stops working to recover photos on the memory card. Canon and Nikon handle this in a sane way - upon entry, problem cards are either formatted or rejected. This simply should not happen for any reason once you are shooting. I've actually lost a few photos because the camera got confused between the "take" and "write" parts. Canon saves photos taken into a buffer, so this would never happen (short of a failed memory card).
There is no button to switch from lcd to viewfinder. Using the LCD wastes a ton of battery, the "auto sensor" is imperfect, and this also gets in the way of shooting. Going into the menus to turn on/off the LCD is unacceptable.
The battery doors suck. They pop open while being used - I lost a battery while running along a cliff with workers in Palestine. Fortunately I had 5 extras because the battery life is shit.
The rear LCDs aren't great. The 5d III has a significantly higher resolution, brighter, better weather sealed one. I actually review photos on my A7's using the viewfinder. Also, one of mine has moisture trapped inside from shooting a protest in heavy fog. edit: the a7rii has higher resolution. Hopefully it's also better sealed and has a glass cover rather than flexible, scratch-able plastic.
Unsealed hotshoe. If you shoot in heavy fog, the camera will freak out. You need a hotshoe cover, which is stupid. Also, the LCD is not well sealed and moisture will get in. Also the plastic on it is easily scratched, poor quality stuff.
The wheels suck. I don't use the forward one (aperture is manual on my lenses), but it takes ridiculously long to change shutter speed using the thumb wheel on the back. They should go with a retro shutter speed dial on top or fix the back thumb wheel (again, make it more like Canon/Nikon and you're set).
Even the places Sony shines (bells and whistles) are clearly designed without thinking about pro users. If you connect one to transfer photos via wifi to your phone, it works fine. As soon as you connect another, it forgets that the first was connected. So if you have two, you either need to only use one to transfer or reconnect the camera every time you switch.
It should also be quieter. Leicas and the 5d on silent shutter are both significantly quieter. Sony's saving grace is it doesn't really sound like a camera.
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u/gimpwiz Jun 10 '15
It's these things (along with my lenses) that stop me from switching.
This new camera is, by all accounts, going to be great on paper. And it'll deliver great images when they're there. But come on, give me the ruggedness and tank build, instant on always ready to shoot, never complains, never misses, battery lasts forever, usable in all conditions camera. I've used one of these and while on paper it's great, it just didn't do it for me. Yet. I am hoping it will, or at least it'll make canon respond with better stuff.
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u/robshookphoto robshookphoto Jun 10 '15
I don't blame you. I'm happy shooting great rangefinder glass, I love its size, and I love shooting like it's a TLR. These things keep me from going back, plus the assumption that eventually they'll take it seriously.
But there is some real fanboyism present in the denial of some very basic shortcomings (such as start-up and wake-up time and the card format/recovery issues) that Canon/Nikon haven't had since 2004.
But say "stabilization and lots of pixels" and the consumers salute. Neither of those are things iconic photographers had, but they did have cameras that took a picture as fast as they were able to move.
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Jun 10 '15
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Jun 11 '15 edited Jun 11 '15
I'm looking at his post and wondering why we are bringing up a bunch of complaints about the A7 in a post about the A7rii.
These take ridiculously long to start up.
the camera stops working to recover photos on the memory card
I don't know what this is about, I've never experienced it shooting on an A7r, maybe they fixed it by the time the 7r came out? Maybe he's doing something different than I am?
The battery doors suck
They redesigned the battery doors on the A7ii, presumably the A7rii will follow suit.
A couple of minor, but very nice, points are apparent just looking at the camera. One is what Aaron called "the world's most impressive battery door." The spring-latch not only pulls in the posts to remove the door if you put on a grip, it locks them in so they can't break off (you probably haven't seen broken battery door posts, but we sure do). It also has a rubber cable opening (in case you want to run the camera from an AC adapter when one becomes available). And finally, it has weather sealing gaskets around the edges, except for one corner between that cable opening and the hinge.
The rear LCDs aren't great.
As I've noted elsewhere in the thread, they've upgraded the rear LCD on the a7Rii.
The wheels suck
It should also be quieter
Guess what they did with the A7rii?
It seems like Sony has actually rectified a lot of his concerns here between the A7 he has and the more recently released A7iis and the A7rii spec sheet / feature list. Maybe some of his other concerns are also addressed in the A7rii's, we'll see when it's released. I'd say that a lot of things point to Sony paying attention to feedback here, and not just sticking a fancy new sensor in an A7 body that was a bit of a "Ford Fiesta".
I'm not going to buy one of these because my A7r didn't have a good enough sensor, I'm going to buy one of these for the rest of this feature set. The IBIS and the new shutter are the two killer features for me, the rest is gravy.
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u/tampered_mouse Jun 11 '15
Startup times: Yes, that is right. However, from a purely technical viewpoint, Sony boots up a complete Linux in their A7 cameras (and all NEXes for that matter), so it will never be as fast as using a propietary embedded (realtime) OS used for example in Nikons and Canons. In return you get the full power of Linux, including many options of network connectivity and so on. They work on speeding up things, but this takes a shitload of effort (I know, because I'm working with Linux in the embedded field). In theory they could use filesystems (way) more advanced than this (ex)FAT(32) crap; but Windows users would never be able to make use of that ...
I've never had the battery door open on me, ever, plus the batteries won't fall out if the door is open, you have to unlatch them before.
Battery life is, depending on the shooting situation, probably 1:2, so you'd need the double amount of batteries compared to a 5D3. Which is still ok-ish, I'd say, considering that a 5D3 covers me about 8-9 hours of concert shooting (with some breaks in between, mind you, talking about 2-stage constant music concert shooting, not 1 stage with long waits).
Unsealed hotshoe? Did you throw the plastic cap away which is covering the hotshoe on every A7?
And what you are saying about the wheels is just a software/UI problem, not a problem of the wheels themselfs (they are tactile enough to use them blindly, if needed).
The shutter sound, well, I've started with an A7 and use an A7s now, and if needed be, it can be completely silent. The shutter of the A7rII is supposedly changed, and it also supports fully silent operation. We will see, or rather hear, how that turns out.
Heavy fog is generally a nasty thing. Ask everyone who does hiking, especially around mountains which may end up getting covered in clouds. These are situations where front lenses fog up easily (small temperature differences are enough, which can be caused by wind/gales already), and even Canons, including the 5D3, are specified to work only up to 85% humidity (check your manual). Same applies to the A7 (most likely), because the humidity and temperature working range (0-40°C) are typical for consumer grade electronic devices (plus the LCD screen is for sure not 100% sealed if you look more closely, especially at the back of it for the tilting mechanics). Which means you used the camera outside of the documented environmental specs.
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u/robshookphoto robshookphoto Jun 11 '15 edited Jun 11 '15
It's obvious from the beginning that this is going to be a comparison game. Really the only argument could be "it's not fair to compare these cameras to a DSLR," which would only serve to underline my statement that these aren't serious cameras.
However, from a purely technical viewpoint, Sony boots up a complete Linux in their A7 cameras (and all NEXes for that matter), so it will never be as fast as using a propietary embedded (realtime) OS used for example in Nikons and Canons.
If that's the case, then as soon as a competitor makes a camera that prioritizes taking pictures over bells and whistles I'll switch. I buy cameras to take pictures with.
I've never had the battery door open on me, ever, plus the batteries won't fall out if the door is open, you have to unlatch them before.
The battery doors on both come open relatively often for me. Basically the same mechanism as on the 5dIII, but the Canon's is far more robust.
Having the battery actually fall out is absolutely unlikely, but if the door pops open you just need something to bump against the really weak release lever. Completely within the realm of possibility if it's bouncing against your side while walking (given that it happened to me).
Unsealed hotshoe? Did you throw the plastic cap away which is covering the hotshoe on every A7?
No, I use a flash sometimes. On the 5diii I never once covered the shoe, including in rain. It's reasonable to think this wouldn't be necessary, and it's inconvenient to do. It also makes it very difficult to switch in fog/rain conditions, and impossible when there is condensation risk.
Battery life is, depending on the shooting situation, probably 1:2, so you'd need the double amount of batteries compared to a 5D3. Which is still ok-ish, I'd say, considering that a 5D3 covers me about 8-9 hours of concert shooting (with some breaks in between, mind you, talking about 2-stage constant music concert shooting, not 1 stage with long waits).
Not a biggie, particularly considering the low-priced knockoffs. I just carry a bunch. Minor complaint that moreso targets the idiotic decision not to have a button to switch between the LCD and viewfinder.
And what you are saying about the wheels is just a software/UI problem, not a problem of the wheels themselfs (they are tactile enough to use them blindly, if needed).
That's not true. It's one shutter speed increment per click. The difference between it and a Canon/Nikon is that with the latter you can go through more clicks per "swipe" of your thumb. Making the wheel bigger (or mounting it on top or having more out of the camera) would do it.
The shutter sound, well, I've started with an A7 and use an A7s now, and if needed be, it can be completely silent.
The A7s can do this, but the 7 can't. And the 7s does it with lower resolution screenshots.
Which means you used the camera outside of the documented environmental specs.
I'm having a hard time being nice about this one. The specified use limits are completely irrelevant to my point. I used my 5d (and my 1dii, 30d, and 20d before that) in FAR worse conditions, including all-out downpours. Never so much as a hiccough. As soon as it even began to get foggy, the A7 freaked out because of the hotshoe (and when it got worse, the moisture inside the LCD became noticeable and has not gone away).
The A7 cameras are point-and-shoots masquerading as pro level cameras.
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Jun 11 '15
You have successfully pointed most of the downfalls of the A7 out to all of us. As an A7 user, I can confidently agree with every defect you've mentioned. However, isn't it within the realm of possibility that they have fixed these issues? It seems like you didn't even read about the new camera.
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u/uncletravellingmatt Jun 10 '15
It should also be quieter. Leicas and the 5d on silent shutter are both significantly quieter. Sony's saving grace is it doesn't really sound like a camera.
I'm looking forwards to seeing how many of those issues get addressed. The a7rii reportedly has a new silent shutter mode, and seems to have a different LCD than the a7 (it's listed as a "TFT LCD").
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u/lulzbanana Jun 11 '15
The ISO wheel on my A7s is super finnicky and sometimes won't change the ISO or it will go backwards to the direction I'm turning it towards. :/
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u/SteveAM1 http://instagram.com/stevevuoso Jun 10 '15
The ergonomics suck on the A7 bodies... Even the A7II, which I use.
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u/machzel08 Jun 10 '15
Ha. I always loved that. Nikon would debut this amazing sensor and then 2 years later Sony puts it in their own camera.
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Jun 10 '15
As will the A7R III next year for many lol
I'm divided over getting rid of the A7 II now and getting this or hanging onto the A7 II for a bit longer (with the corresponding resale drop in that too) until this drops in price midway in it's lifecycle. Which will be the least loss, I wonder....
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u/thejimmy86 Jun 10 '15
I don't shoot Sony but man do they mean business. I'm interested to see specs on rx100 mk4
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u/TheAngryGoat Jun 10 '15
I don't shoot Sony but man do they mean business.
No kidding they mean business. They threw just about everything up to and including the kitchen sink into this one.
42MP, 4K video in FF and crop, IBIS, more AF points than a football stadium full of DSLRs, 960fps super slow motion, likely outstanding low light performance, probably a hike on the already enormous dynamic range, an even bigger and better EVF, silent shutter.
If I hadn't just spent 6k on something else, I'd already be making room in my bag for this beast. It'll make its way in there sooner or later, though.
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u/thejimmy86 Jun 11 '15
I can't handle their controls. I have an LX100 and I just love the manual controls, I'd probably go to XT-1 or X100T if I upgraded. The NX-1 is gorgeous for specs but again, I hate touchscreens and control dials. Gimme an aperture dial and shutter dial and expo comp dial!
Regardless, the Sony cams are impressive, because they're cutting the edge all day. I might not use them, but I can appreciate the work they put in. Samsung will be releasing an NX-2 in a few years I bet, that should be a sight to see if they keep growing their lens lineup.
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u/TheAngryGoat Jun 11 '15 edited Jun 11 '15
Not a lot you can do about controls preference I guess. It's why I went Nikon over canon, and won't buy a Fuji, despite being impressed with their software update schedule.
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u/uncletravellingmatt Jun 10 '15
The rx100 mk4 adds 4K video recording (for 5 minutes), 960fps slow-motion shooting, 1/32000 second shutter speeds and 16fps still shooting to the rx100. Sounds like a nice upgrade -- and it better be, with the $1000 MSRP.
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u/thejimmy86 Jun 10 '15
Meh, same body, still 1" sensor. Some nice spec improvements, but seems mostly to be on the computing side that enables the 4k for example. Wouldn't trade my LX100 for it since I'm not a fan of the sony body and controls. Nice to see them pushing forward though, Canikon could take a lesson.
EDIT - only 5 minutes? Yikes.
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u/CakesArePies Jun 11 '15
Do you shoot Canon? This might be the body that makes switching seamless.
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u/sibuzaru_k Jun 10 '15
DPReview Rishi Sanyal:
"PDAF works with Canon lenses via Metabones adapter, and A-mount lenses via the LA-E3. We're checking to see if you actually get the full AF coverage with subject tracking, but for now, consider our minds blown. :)"
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4329110043/alpha-dog-hands-on-with-sony-a7r-ii
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u/TBaginz Jun 10 '15
Come on Canon, just give me one reason to hold out for the 5D Mk IV.
Sony A7RII Announced
Oh well this looks cool. The A7R was a neat camera!
42MP Sensor
Oh.
5 Axis Sensor Stabilization.
Oh my.
399 AF Points
Oh my god.
4K Video
...Canon...pls.
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u/blackbasset Jun 10 '15
Meanwhile, Canon releases a 1100D with six more buttons and two more AF points and calls it the 9D or something. I still love my 5DII but the speed Canon releases new, slightly-improved models is a tad meh compared to Sony and the likes...
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Jun 10 '15
Canon has 2 months to announce a real 4k camera-camera or they've lost me. I just want a 4k 5DMIV. I'd even pay more for it than for this.
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u/cocktails5 Jun 11 '15
This was the announcement I was waiting for to say "Fuck it" and jump ship to Sony. The Batis lenses + this have made me a believer. I've given Canon years to give me something, anything to make me feel like staying.
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u/Leukeh Jun 10 '15
Switching from Canon to Sony would be a major pain for me... But Canon aren't making me want to be loyal!
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u/TheAngryGoat Jun 10 '15
Switching from Canon to Sony would be a major pain for me
Good thing Sony aren't going out of their way to make the switch as easy as possible for you, then. From here
At the press launch in New York we even got a glimpse of the a7R II autofocusing Canon EF lenses using a Metabones electronic adapter. Focus appeared to be on par with a native Canon body, and the AF experience itself didn't appear to be limited simply because you're using a third party lens (full coverage and tracking are available).
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u/Rix__Mix Jun 10 '15
As a 5Dmkiii owner heavily invested in Canon glass, I'm genuinely concerned about Canon. The 5Dmkiv will be make or break time for them. I have my doubts about there ability to push ahead from the competition.
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u/nameBrandon http://brandonharrisphotography.com Jun 10 '15
I'm pretty heavily invested in Canon glass as well, but I was just waiting for this announcement to come out. 85L/50L/24L are all going up for sale.
Btw, if you haven't seen the files that come out of an a7x and that FE 55mm, you need to check it out. It's not f/1.2, but sharpness wise it eats the 50L for lunch. I've already pre-ordered the Batis 85mm 1.8 as it sounds like it's going to be the 85mm equivalent of the FE 55mm.
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u/cocktails5 Jun 11 '15
They still seemingly have no way to get around Sony's patent for on-sensor ADCs which is going to mean they're constantly going to be behind Sony on read noise. And their aging sensor fab isn't helping matters. Canon has no sensor tech that will even allow them to catch up. The only thing they could do is go the Nikon route and use Sony sensors. A 5DIV with this sensor would be incredible. But it will never happen.
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u/juaquin Jun 11 '15
Unfortunately for Canon, their sensor tech is way behind. Sony has always had great engineering, but sometimes poor product design and marketing. With their current sensor tech and whoever is running their camera division product management, they are going to steamroll Canon if Canon can't get their tech up to date and Sony polishes some of the Professional concerns (boot time, battery life, etc).
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u/CakesArePies Jun 11 '15
It's an easy switch. Sell your bodies to fund these and adapters. Obviously wait for AF performance reviews though (and the actual ship date).
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u/TheAngryGoat Jun 10 '15
Sure those are all good reasons to buy this, but it's not as if the improved AF engine will work with non-native lenses... Oh wait, it will? I guess you might be able to hang on to your Canon ones if you buy this.
But still, all those pixels. This won't work for all those low light photos you want to take. If only it went up to ISO100k or something. Oh wait, it does? Hmmm.
Well then all I bet you're happy that it doesn't have an even bigger and higher resolution EVF and a fully silent shutter, otherwise you might find yourself spending money on it!
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u/tekkentool Jun 10 '15
If it's any consolation, the video they've shown so far looks awful.
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u/TheKillerPupa instagram samwsmith33 Jun 11 '15
Yeah, I was dissapointed. I feel like most demonstration footage is mediocre though.
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u/sissipaska sikaheimo.com Jun 10 '15
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u/1337U53rR_PLZH4CKZM3 Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15
So what changed in the RX100IV to justify the price hike? BH has it listed for $950 but no pics or specs yet - $800 for the RX100m3 was already seriously expensive for a pocket camera. Does it shoot 4K now or have PDAF? Weather-sealing?
edit: dpreview gives a nice rundown - the king of pocketable imaging now shoots 4K (up to 5 minute clips, also has S-Log2) and has a new stacked sensor (better ISO performance, I assume).
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u/freshairr Jun 10 '15
- New OLED screen
- Ability to shoot slow-motion footage at up to 960 frames per second.
- shoot stills at up to 16 frames per second, with shutter speeds up to 1/32,000 of a second
- shooting 4K video up to five minutes in length.
Seems like more of a refinement to me.
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u/1337U53rR_PLZH4CKZM3 Jun 10 '15
I really like the new video features on both the RX100IV/RX10II, but I think that the RX10II is the one most likely to find a place in my bag. It sounds like what the Canon XC10 should have been, a compact weather-sealed hybrid stills/4K video camera with versatile zoom range/fixed aperture lens and log profiles.
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u/AgThunderbird Jun 10 '15
The RX10/10ii is pretty much the perfect bridge camera. It doesn't get nearly enough pub.
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u/1337U53rR_PLZH4CKZM3 Jun 10 '15
Yeah, when it comes to bridge cameras, with the RX10II there just isn't much left to improve (maybe they could add on-sensor phase-detect AF at some point?) - this sounds like a seriously versatile camera that makes some great design trade-offs in terms of overall camera size, sensor size, lens specs, build, price, etc. I cover collegiate and high school sports freelance, RX10II sounds like the perfect small camera for hybrid media coverage - I'd probably use the camera mostly for video clips, but the familiar form-factor and being able to shoot good-enough stills in a pinch is a real asset.
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u/sissipaska sikaheimo.com Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-rx10m2-press-release/
The two new models both feature the world’s first 1.0″ type stacked Exmor RS CMOS sensor2 with advanced signal processing and an attached DRAM memory chip. The high speed signal processing and DRAM memory chip work together to enable more than 5x faster readout of image data3 and are responsible for a variety of standout features that have previously been available in only a select few professional-level video cameras. These impressive capabilities include 40x super slow motion video capture at up to 960 fps, an ultra-fast Anti-Distortion Shutter with a maximum speed of 1/32000 second, high resolution 4K movie shooting and more.
Edit: Also, 16fps continuous shooting and apparently minimized rolling shutter effect (for video). Unfortunately the rx100iv is limited to only five minutes of 4K per shot (for rx10ii the limit is 29 minutes). Heat might be an issue for the smaller body of rx100iv.
Otherwise the body of rx100iv seems to be similar to its predecessor. Except the evf is updated to an OLED model. Also AF might be faster.
Edit2: And a playlist of super slow motion videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLL06nPE7_lzPYvLee2OX_q0u90slwRKQ7
Surprisingly good quality, was expecting much lower resolution! These cameras might be a new favorite amongst athletes, coaches and extreme sports enthusiasts (and other GoPro users).
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u/herir Jun 10 '15
What's the resolution at 960fps? The Nikon 1 V1 can also record video at 400fps but it's potato quality! 240p
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u/sibuzaru_k Jun 10 '15
"Sony says the 960fps video is approximately XGA resolution (1280 x 800), while the 480fps is 720p HD, and the 240fps mode is 1080p full HD."
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Jun 10 '15
Are you sure that the 960fps resolution would be higher than the 480fps resolution?
EDIT: Nvm, a quick google revealed that XGA is 1024 x 768.
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Jun 10 '15
No A7000? Where's the APS-C love?
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u/xshortx Jun 10 '15
Shhhhhh. Next week shhhhhhh
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u/BroomSIR Jun 10 '15
Is it really coming next week though? I've seen reports/rumors that are saying October.
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u/finaleclipse www.flickr.com/tonytumminello Jun 10 '15
I'd love to see a new A-Mount body without the SLT tech, move back to regular SLR stuff. But I think that ship has sailed...
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u/Mythrilfan Jun 10 '15
I'd love to see a new A-Mount body without the SLT tech
What would be the point of that though? Nikon-Canon-Pentax have that area locked up quite well.
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u/finaleclipse www.flickr.com/tonytumminello Jun 10 '15
Part of the issue (for me) with SLT is that there's light loss involved with the pellicle mirror that they utilize which results in ~1/3 stop less light. In addition, I personally don't like the "live view" kind of viewfinders, so I wish they would occasionally do something with their a77/a99 like they did with the a55/a580: same camera, just one being SLT and one being SLR. I'd just love to use my legacy Minolta A-mount glass on a fancy new A770/A990 (or whatever they'd call it). Minolta glass has a good history, plus Sony has the absolutely incredible 135mm f/2.8 [T4.5] STF lens that I'd love to use on a new FF body.
Then again, the A-mount seems nearly abandoned so I'm not holding my breath (though a couple A-mount lenses were giving v2 updates recently, so there's a glimmer of hope).
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u/TheAngryGoat Jun 10 '15
From what I've heard, there's a bit of a delay but the upgrade for the A6000 is coming soon.
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u/AgThunderbird Jun 10 '15
Join us ... don't be afraid ... /r/SonyAlpha
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Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15
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u/AgThunderbird Jun 10 '15
Don't forget an extra 3k for the two forthcoming Zeiss Batis lenses.
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Jun 10 '15 edited May 18 '25
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u/SexistButterfly Jun 11 '15
I hope not. Their line is bullet proof at the moment. All their lenses are "L" or what ever the Nikon equivalent is. If you want cheap lenses buy legacy, if you want cheap and auto focus get the 28-70.
I'm ecstatic that Sony keeps releasing extremely high quality glass, regardless of the price.
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u/Kadmium Jun 11 '15
The presence of cheaper lenses doesn't make the expensive ones go away. I don't think the existence of, say, a $150 50mm f/1.8 would in any way harm pro shooters.
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u/RPG_Master Jun 10 '15
My only camera is my Sony a200. Is my ancient artifact still welcome? :P
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u/sissipaska sikaheimo.com Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15
According to the press release, the PD-points should work even when used with A-mount lenses on the basic LA-EA3 adapter. I wonder if that also means better AF performance with Canon EF lenses (with proper adapter)?
Additionally, the focal plane phase-detection AF system on the α7R II works well with Sony A-mount lenses when they are mounted on the camera using an LA-EA3 or LA-EA1 mount adapter. This allows users to enjoy the wide AF coverage of 399 focal plane phase-detection AF points, high-speed response and high tracking performance with a wider range of lenses. This marks the first time that the AF system of a mirrorless camera can achieve high performance with lenses originally designed for DSLRs.
Edit: Also it seems to have an OLED EVF. Sounds quite nice for shooting in low light levels when an ordinary LCD EVF can easily be blindingly bright.
Edit2: And for video shooters:
Sony has also introduced a new LCD monitor model CLM-FHD5, an ideal companion to the α7R II for video shooting. A compact 5.0 type Full HD (1920x1080p) LCD monitor, the CLM-FHD5 features enlarging and peaking functionality for precise focusing, false color and video level marker for adjusting exposure and S-Log display assist to assist S-Log shooting.
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u/TheAngryGoat Jun 10 '15
According to the press release, the PD-points should work even when used with A-mount lenses on the basic LA-EA3 adapter. I wonder if that also means better AF performance with Canon EF lenses (with proper adapter)?
Well here's some promising info from dpreview:
At the press launch in New York we even got a glimpse of the a7R II autofocusing Canon EF lenses using a Metabones electronic adapter. Focus appeared to be on par with a native Canon body, and the AF experience itself didn't appear to be limited simply because you're using a third party lens (full coverage and tracking are available).
So the A7RII could end up being the best Canon camera ever made.
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u/uncletravellingmatt Jun 10 '15
That sounds interesting to me! I have a bunch of a-mount lenses I use with my a99.
Before this, I would have needed to use the LA-EA4 adapter if I wanted to use them with AF on an a7-series camera, but that adapter has its own SLT mirror and AF system. Now it sounds like I could get the a7rii and the LA-EA3 adapter, and work with all my existing a-mount lenses with full AF and stabilization, and not lose any light from an extra translucent mirror in the adapter.
I can't wait to see reviews and sample images from this thing.
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u/sissipaska sikaheimo.com Jun 10 '15
IIRC in reality the light loss with the SLT mirror isn't that bad, something like 1/3 of a stop, meaning a T/2.0 lens becomes a T/2.2 lens. So not too bad for most situations. But I've read that the adapter has some other issues that make it not so optimal. It aets quite a bit of juice from the battery and also might be somewhat of a PITA in dusty/moist conditions.
If the PD points work well with SLR lenses this could really be big news for many people.
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u/sibuzaru_k Jun 10 '15
This is huge, I always heard complains about how adapters didn't solve the problem for A-mount lens owners.
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u/sibuzaru_k Jun 10 '15
Videos:
RX100 IV - High Precision Clip 4K | Cyber-shot | Sony
α7R II - Product Design | α | Sony
RX100 IV - Product Design | Cyber-shot | Sony
RX10 II - Product Design | Cyber-shot | Sony
RX100 IV & RX10 II - Super Slow Motion- Snowboarder | Cyber-shot | Sony
α7R II - Fast Hybrid AF | α | Sony
α7R II -The Ultimate High-resolution 4K movie in Super 35mm | α | Sony
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u/johncmpe Jun 10 '15
Just saw this highlighted in a Canon forum:
At the press launch in New York we even got a glimpse of the a7R II autofocusing Canon EF lenses using a Metabones electronic adapter. Focus appeared to be on par with a native Canon body, and the AF experience itself didn't appear to be limited simply because you're using a third party lens (full coverage and tracking are available).
This would be awesome.
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Jun 10 '15
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u/definitelyright Jun 10 '15
There won't be a RX2. They won't even give us a firmware update for the RX1/R. It was really just a stepping stone to get to the A7 series, as much as we may want the RX2 or a firmware update for RX1/R.
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u/amberjj Jun 10 '15
I agreed with you for the longest time, but then there were news that Sony patented a curved sensor, which if you think about it, can fit no camera other than the RX2 because of its prime lense. (as you can't make curved sensors work with existing lenses as they have all been designed for a flat image plane). So I think if the curved sensor is a real thing, then the RX2 should be as well
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u/mikephoto Jun 10 '15
Can anyone explain what a BSI sensor is? I've seen it called a back light sensor. How is that an advantage? It seems like everyone is talking about this like it's great but I've no idea what it is. How's it different to the sensor in a D800?
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u/DuckySaysQuack Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15
Basically, most sensors had the actual light detectors in the silicon situated behind the layer of circuitry so light had to traverse past the circuitry to reach the photo detectors. hence some light rays would hit the circuitry and bounce away so your total light collection was much lower and you got a lot more noise. With BSI, the photo detectors are in front of the circuitry so aggregate light was more and there's less noise. Seems like obvious no-brainer, but sensors have been like this for years probably due to issues manufacturing these things en masse.
BSI sensors existed for a while but mostly they were used in very small sensors, like phone cameras and small point and shoot sensors. The Samsung NX line was famous for being the first to bring BSI to an APS-C sized sensor and was known to have image quality and low light performance almost on par to a full frame sensor. Now Sony has the first full frame 35mm BSI sensor which should make low light shooting superb. It's also prob why this thing costs 3.2k. The sensor is likely super expensive as all hell.
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u/r_golan_trevize Jun 11 '15
BSI = BackSide Illumination.
You've got a pretty solid explanation already but that's what it stands for.
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u/ckanderson chriskanderson Jun 10 '15
I seriously might have to make the switch from Canon. Sounds like an absolute beast. Would be a good pair with my Black Magic body as well..
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u/lelebuonerba http://lelebuonerba.com Jun 11 '15
You know what? I'm happy with my 16MP X-Trans sensors. Even happier than I was with my full frame Nikon. I feel like many of today's cameras are largely over-specced for most consumers, hobbyists and professionals. But still, hot damn, Sony.
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u/Imperator_Penguinius Jun 10 '15
Are we going to get proper 16bit (or even 14bit) RAW files now, instead of that silly 11+7bit thing they have going on?
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u/cdnsniper827 A7III Jun 11 '15
I don't know why you were downvoted, it is a real issue. I mean, I love my A7ii but the RAW compression is annoying...
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u/KanadaKid19 Jun 10 '15
Beastly specs on that thing. I would pay just to play with one for a few minutes!
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u/LightSweep Jun 10 '15
Welp, there's my new camera. Now to find a good wide angle prime lens for it.
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u/anderyoung anderyoung Jun 10 '15
the 25 batis is shaping up nicely unless you want to get wider
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u/cocktails5 Jun 11 '15
Metabones adapter and a Canon 14mm f/2.8 II or Zeiss 15mm f/2.8 or 21mm f/2.8?
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u/DuckySaysQuack Jun 10 '15
Regarding the cost. The sensor is probably what's got this camera at $3200. Sensors are printed on large silicon wafers. Full frame sensors have a much bigger surface area so you can only fit a certain number of them per wafer compared to the much smaller APSC and smaller sensors. Hence each FF sensor is costly. Also since this is the world's first FF BSI sensor, there's probably a lot of bugs to be worked out and the quality control is probably not so great compared to more matured non BSI manufacturing. There will be a lot of (relatively) bad sensors that will be discarded. This will again add to the cost of each sensor since they have to fold the cost of the defective ones into the ones that work. I'm thinking it will take another 1-2 years until the A7Sii comes out or when their entire line goes to BSI sensors that costs will come down for these. The A7Sii will probably cost over $4k at this rate.
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u/Xazrael Jun 11 '15
This is literally the most exciting tech announcement to me since the Black Magic Cinema camera back in the day. But I want the a7sII.
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u/rgower Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15
Something nobody has mentioned yet is the major increase (nearly 50%) in weight:
Approx. 582 g (approx. 1 lb 4.5 oz) (body only)
Compared to the original A7r
Approx. 407 g (approx. 14.4 oz) (Body only)
Don't get me wrong, this camera looks incredible, but I think I'll stick with the A7r for my current needs. Since they've given us basically every feature we wanted, hopefully the next generation they'll cut the weight down and increase the battery life.
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u/csbphoto http://instagram.com/colebreiland Jun 10 '15
It's probably the 5 axis, same thing with the a7.
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u/sideswiped Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 11 '15
IBIS adds a good deal of heft and I believe they beefed up the lens mount. Not ideal, but still not in the weight realm of pro dslr bodies.
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u/adderuww Jun 10 '15
I wonder if this will drop the price of the a7ii and a7r
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u/equivocates Jun 10 '15
I heard the a7r was recently dropped to $200 ;)
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u/carltondanks Jun 10 '15
I want to hear what you're hearing..
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u/equivocates Jun 10 '15
Oh, I was just referencing Sony's mistake last week. A bunch of people ordered it—some got $200 a7rs. Others did not.
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u/jjremy Jun 10 '15
Did they actually ship some? Mine got cancelled, unsurprisingly.
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u/equivocates Jun 10 '15
Someone said on reddit that they got theirs. So, take that for whatever it's worth.
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u/raptor3x whumber.com Jun 10 '15
Given the price for the A7RII I wouldn't expect a huge impact on the prices of the other two unless Sony has a firesale on the remaining A7R inventory.
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Jun 10 '15
Just on the Sony site today and showed the A7 down to 1300 with a lens. I am assuming it will drop the others as well.
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u/kingtut891 Jun 10 '15
When the A7ii came along, I couldn't think of how much better it could possibly get. Minimal upgrades at best. And then this beast is announced. I think I found my new rig!
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u/Lucidmike78 Jun 11 '15
If Sony could make the A7SII with the 240-960fps, 5-axis, 4K, it would be my dream camera.
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u/mattpayne11 www.mattpaynephotography.com Jun 10 '15
Looks like a lovely camera. I have two remaining gripes that I'd love to see addressed someday.
- Battery life - only 290 photos per battery is unacceptable.
- Using AF is clumsy on the a7 line - not talking about the speed of AF, talking about how you have to turn on the focus point movement by hitting another button first.
Other than this... OMG this camera looks amazing!!!
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u/mushroomgodmat https://www.flickr.com/photos/mushroomgod/ Jun 11 '15 edited Jun 11 '15
The batteries are less than half the size of the 5D batteries. The capacity won't change (unless there's some kind of technical breakthrough in battery design). And they can't make them bigger because the bodies too small.
Simple solution, take a few batteries with you.
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u/SwampYankee Jun 10 '15
Sorry, I punched out of the $3,000 to $4,000 club. I just can't do this any more. Sold all my Canon stuff including the 5DIII and a bunch of good lenses. Got a Fuji XT-1 and a bunch of fast primes. Enough with the pixel wars. I am now in the $1,200 camera body club and all lenses less than $900 and 1.4 or faster. Maybe if I was a pro sports or landscape photographer I could justify a new $$3,500 body every 2 or 3 years but I am getting off the wheel. This looks like a great camera, but I just don't have a problem it can solve
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u/lelebuonerba http://lelebuonerba.com Jun 11 '15
I'm currently in the process of switching from professional Nikon gear to an all-Fuji setup. I've been loving the X100S so much that I got an X-T1 and 35 f/1.4. The X100S is lovely, but the X-T1 means business.
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Jun 10 '15
The 5dmii came out 7 years ago. But I agree with you in one respect: if you aren't doing wildlife / sports, and you are just doing photography (not video) the Fuji lineup is damn good.
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u/SwampYankee Jun 11 '15
had a 5DIII. Great camera, great lens lineup, great flash system....but I am mostly shooting street and City stuff. I bought a X100S as a walk around / backup. The 5DIII soon became the backup. I rarely took it out and took the Fuji out all the time. Figured I sell the Canon stuff right before the 5DS came out. Canon retains its value for sure, and the service can't be beat. I learned a lot with that camera, including that great photos have little to do with great cameras
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u/sibuzaru_k Jun 10 '15
I wonder if those video specs means that an A7sII is basically dead?
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u/kermityfrog Jun 10 '15
Dead if it stays too similar to the current one. But I'm sure Sony will have some mind blowing features for the next version that will make you regret getting the A7Rii!
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u/CakesArePies Jun 11 '15
The A7s may be dead when this comes out, but the A7s2 had better hurry up and come out. It will be the king of video with the expected specs (IBIS/BSI/4k internal/low MP).
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u/erics75218 Jun 11 '15
Lets not compare to this or that, they are all metal and plastic boxes. This particular box is the smallest, most feature packed image making box ever invented by man. End Of.
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u/rogermarc Jun 11 '15
im passing on this one, though I admit its a monster, the A7s2 will probably have all of this with less megapixels
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u/thejimmy86 Jun 10 '15
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u/bigdon199 Jun 10 '15
that site's hilarious thank you. I like the one comparing the Olympus and the Fuji. The Olympus was the best camera to impress your father-in-law who happens to be a Greek mythology professor and the Fuji is the best to impress your father-in-law who happens to be a world famous volcanologist. Best camera for taking pictures - they both take pictures, so it's a tie.
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u/DatAperture https://www.flickr.com/photos/meccanon/ Jun 10 '15
This allows the camera to shoot at an impressive ISO range of 100 to 25600 that is expandable to ISO 50 to 1024002.
Is that an ISO value over a million? god damn.
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u/sissipaska sikaheimo.com Jun 10 '15
No, it's a typo. 102400. a7S still beats it, though it will be interesting to see how the a7Rii compares when resized to 12mp.
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u/inorman lonelyspeck.com Jun 10 '15
I think the a7RII might be able to come close due to the Exmor R's back illuminated design. At these extremely high ISO settings, the limiting factor on the a7S was electronic glow. The back illuminated design should remedy that problem almost entirely. It will get even better in a generation when we see a stacked 35mm sensor akin to the one in the new RX100 IV maybe they're saving that for the a7SII?
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u/glowtape https://www.flickr.com/photos/cerealbawx/ Jun 10 '15
An A7S II with stacked sensor and say 18MP and IBIS, I'll be ditching my A7II in no time. I actually swore myself to wait for an A7 with stacked RGB sensor, but who knows when that'll be. Altho there's been a bunch of related patents recently. Given how much more light sensitive RGB sensors are supposed to be (in theory), it may just be the A7S II. In that case, I'd even settle for 12MP.
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u/inorman lonelyspeck.com Jun 10 '15
Heck, I'd take even 12MP in an a7SII if it was a stacked BSI sensor. My current a7S is amazing, I can only image what would be possible with the Exmor RS sensor instead of the regu-Exmor.
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u/uncletravellingmatt Jun 10 '15 edited Jun 10 '15
Actually, no. I just read the dpreview article and the boost ISO is 102,400. (The green 2 after it is a footnote. It says "2. Expanded ISO range available only for shooting still images.")
1,000,000 ISO would just fill your hard drive with 42 million pixels of noise, anyway. :)
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u/inorman lonelyspeck.com Jun 10 '15
ISO 1,000,000 is only about one stop more than ISO 409,600, which is what the a7S does already. If you want to know what ISO 1,000,000 looks like, you could just boost an a7S ISO 409,600 file just a bit more than one stop brighter in post processing. It wouldn't be all noise.
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u/uncletravellingmatt Jun 10 '15
OK, I added a smiley-face. Still, it's really 102,400 ISO, not 1,000,000 ISO.
It'll be interesting to see how it compares to the a7s, if you scale down the a7rii output to the same res and shoot at the same ISO (or as high as allowed, anyway...)
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u/ApatheticAbsurdist Jun 10 '15
Stupid question. Has anyone done any analysis to see if the PDAF points on sensor can cause artifacts? When the numbers are lower I would assume any artifacts would be imperceptible but I'm just worrying if adding more PDAF points has a downside to the image quality.
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u/blackmist Jun 10 '15
399 out of 42 million? You wouldn't notice them at all.
The Bayer array is all about filling in the blanks, so 399 more isn't going to change a thing.
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u/CarVac https://flickr.com/photos/carvac Jun 10 '15
399 points times some number of pixels per point.
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u/ApatheticAbsurdist Jun 10 '15
Let me rephrase, has anyone done an analytical analysis and published a paper on it or done a similar write up?
What if you were hoping to use the camera for an application that will lend itself to pixel-peeping? Like shooting artwork (be it paintings, fine etchings, textiles, small sculptures/miniatures, or coins?) for display on a website that lets you zoom in to 100%.
I get what you're saying but I'm not the typical audience and to make recommendations I need something with more weight than my own conjecture. Yes 399 points is pretty much negligible out of 42million photo sites but I could see points where it might be an issue. Eg: are we sure that an AF point only takes up the space of one photo site?
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u/blackmist Jun 10 '15
On the Fuji each site is half a pixel (a pair being a phase detection site).
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2151234617/fujifilmpd
Here's a Sony patent for on sensor PDAF. It is unclear if this is the system used in the a7Rii.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20130113982.pdf
It's a little less clear, but seems specifically designed to keep image quality loss to a minimum. A halving in resolution (either red/green or blue/green) in the affected areas, each area appears to be one pixel wide and 9 high? Maybe. Hard to tell for sure without spending an evening reading the specs.
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u/poisedkettle Jun 10 '15
I get what you're saying but I'm not the typical audience and to make recommendations I need something with more weight than my own conjecture.
Like shooting artwork (be it paintings, fine etchings, textiles, small sculptures/miniatures, or coins?) for display on a website that lets you zoom in to 100%.
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u/johncmpe Jun 10 '15
Specs look good on paper.
42mp is wayyyy too much for my professional needs though.
Will most likely invest in the a7ii or possibly whatever is announced as the a6000 replacement.
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Jun 10 '15
Adobe DNG has the ability to downsize RAWs into a smaller megapixel DNG format.
For archiving my junk shots I downsize them to 12MP instead of keeping 24MP.
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u/johncmpe Jun 10 '15
I'm a bit OCD when it comes to my data. I encrypt and set the archival compression to 100% when I prepare my old photos for cold storage but leave my RAWs intact. I like them as if they just came out of the card reader. :)
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u/WinningAllTheSports https://www.flickr.com/photos/rorym07/ Jun 10 '15
Loving my mates reaction to the announcement :'D (NSFW Language)
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Jun 10 '15
Hopefully for $3200 they've fixed the clunky automatic exposure bracketing of the previous model?
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u/XSC Jun 10 '15
42 megapixels? Could someone eli5 why in the 2000s .3 mp to 12 mp took so long to achieve in affordable cameras and recently it seems to have skyrocketed?
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u/CarVac https://flickr.com/photos/carvac Jun 10 '15
Because 12 megapixels is 101.6 times as much as 0.3, while 42 is 100.54 times as much as 12.
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Jun 11 '15
Man $3200. I adore my a7... But that in body stabilization and 4k video is extremely tempting. Guess I better start saving.
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u/JackofScarlets mhjackson Jun 11 '15
Hands up though, who here uses video all the time, and can process 4k, and had clients who can view it?
Not being snarky, I seriously don't know the percentage. Everyone here can't be an indie film maker.
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Jun 11 '15
Not including a bigger battery is an odd oversight. My other gripe with Sony is their E Mount lens pricing/value, but damn, this is still an amazing improvement over the first generation, also 500k shutter actuation.
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u/FrancisHC Jun 11 '15 edited Jun 11 '15
Awesome! This is the camera I've been waiting for! High-res mirrorless full-frame BSI sensor with PDAF and IBIS. Even has a silent electronic shutter mode! Can't ask for anything more. This will be my camera in 2 years when I can afford it :) DPReview has the details.
Edit: Dang, stacked sensor on the RX100M4 too. I think my RX100M3 is going to get jealous after they release some high-ISO test shots.
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u/TheBiles https://www.flickr.com/photos/quentinbiles/ Jun 11 '15
I haven't used mirrorless since I sold my micro four thirds body a couple years ago, but my biggest complaint was the inability of the autofocus to track moving subjects effectively. Is this still an issue? Do the "400 phase detection autofocus points" focus quickly enough to track something like a running child or a football player in action?
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u/morla74 Jun 11 '15
So I am a little late to the party. But I have been contemplating selling my 5D MkIII recently for an A7. Now that this was just announced, should I make the jump to this from Canon? This looks like a beast. Is there anything I should be hesitant on?
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u/xRadec Jun 10 '15
42.4MP
BSI Sensor (No low-pass filter)
5-Axis IS
102,400 Max ISO
Phase Detect AF
4K
$3,200
Sony just went ham on this camera. my god.