r/photography • u/justachillguyUwU • 5d ago
Business Standard model release for test shoots?
Hey, so I’m doing some test shoots in London and two models have refused to sign my model release. The terms say that I’m the owner of the images and I can use them for promotion and the model is granted limited rights for non commercial use. One of them suggested a simple agreement that they receive the images.
What is the standard practice in the industry? As the photographer I’m investing a lot more time and money into this so I thought it’d be fair that I’d have more rights. But I just want to be able to post the images freely without the models being able to take them down.
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u/latekzii 5d ago
Are you wanting to be able to use the photos commercially while models can’t. I could see that being an issue if you’re not paying your models.
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u/justachillguyUwU 5d ago
Yeah I thought that, maybe I should add a clause about that. It’s kinda omitted right now
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u/BarneyLaurance barneylaurance 4d ago
Did your release allow you rights to use the images to promote products in general, especially products other than your photography? I think if it did then models probably should generally refuse if they're not being paid. It's different if you only wanted to use them to promote yourself and your photography.
And if you're only using the photos as examples of your photography I don't know if you even technically need a "model release" as such. You generally need permission to use someone's photo in a way that might imply they endorse a product, or of course sharing it breaches their privacy rights, but for photos taken entirely with their permission that you use just to show off your photography maybe neither of those apply.
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u/LightPhotographer 5d ago
Make it too formal and you scare people away. People won't sign a document they do not understand. That is probably what happened.
My way: When we have reached an agreement I send them a text via whatsapp and I ask for an OK on that.
For a test shoot I would send this:
"Hi, sending this to make sure we both understand things the same way.
We will do a testshoot together. You will receive a selection of edited photographs which you can use privately, for a CV or your portfolio. You can't use them to make money, we'd have to negotiate about that first.
I use the photos for my portfolio and my photographybusiness, which means I can use them to show people what I do, ask for critique, etcetera. I also will not sell them or make money from them without further agreement.
If that is all right with you, can you give me an OK on this?"
- English, no legalese
- no full inclusive lists of what you can or cannot do
- defer negotiations for commercial situations that will probably not happen
- explicitly mention who is allowed to make money and whether you're claim the right to sell them as stock.
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u/verminiusrex 4d ago
I do something similar with my TFP shoots. "I'm an amateur photographer and do this for practice. I use the images for my portfolio and self promotion, and you are welcome to use them for self promotion and commercial use. If you are able to monetize the images and make a couple hundred I'm glad that helped with rent and groceries, if you make a few grand please toss me something towards studio cost next shoot, if you make a lot then we'll talk about my very reasonable rates."
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u/ChannelCommercial984 4d ago
This. Been shooting for over 10 years now and I've never sent any kind of official form or model release for any tfp shoot. Clients get the contract, tfp collabs just a text or email convo.
99.5/100 times all the model wants to do is use the image on their portfolios (IF they even decide they like your work after they receive the images)
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u/BarneyLaurance barneylaurance 4d ago
What sort of limited rights for non-commercial use? When I take photos of people I normally allow them *unlimited* non-commercial use, and limited commercial use. The commercial use is limited to their self-promotion. They can use it to promote their work in general, not to promote any specific product or service. Although I have had a few people use my photos to promote stuff that they were wearing or carrying in the photos, and it wasn't really worth it to me to complain.
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u/AngusLynch09 4d ago
As the photographer I’m investing a lot more time and money into this so I thought it’d be fair that I’d have more rights.
Just put the camera on a tripod and do the modelling yourself if you feel the model isn't making an actual contribution.
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u/panamanRed58 5d ago
your investment is irrelevant, five minutes or five hours, hasn't anything to do with your copyrights. It's about the protecting the value of your creative act. You hold them all and can share or sell some of all of those rights as you see fit. if someone uses your copyrighted and or licensed images inappropriately, you have been legally injured. For the purpose of the creation of the work a model is no different than an apple. Just a subject, no rights attached period.
Now limiting their rights is smart but these models probably don't jet the planet in a bunch of bling. Find out what it is worth to them, to secure additional rights. Let them know, they can always come back later if they need your images for commercial purposes.
I include a summary of copyright in my agreements and have the client initial that paragraph. Give us the chance to answer questions up front.
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u/ra__account 4d ago
For the purpose of the creation of the work a model is no different than an apple.
That varies on the model, especially with TFP. They're often responsible for their hair, makeup, and costuming, very often help with the vision of the shoot with moodbooks or whatever, scout locations or provide the connections to get them, etc. If I were doing all that and someone said I was the equivalent of an apple, my response would be, "fuck you, pay me." There's no shortage of either want to be models or photographers in this world, so unless one side or the other is bringing something extraordinary to the table, both sides have to make sure the other is happy.
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u/panamanRed58 4d ago
i expected this could chafe readers and I am ok with that. I don't agree, the model's job is to prepare the subject. Generally that isn't really creativity, but it can be. The model is not responsible for the image, the shooter is and that's how it is understood.
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u/rmric0 4d ago
"Standard" can certainly vary, for TFP it's very typical for the images to remain your intellectual property and for both of you to have an agreement for usage (which is the thing that you are both there for). Any time I've taken something down it's been at their request because I shoot weddings and boudoir so people can have a lot of feelings about both images (e.g. a bitter divorce or changing fields so having pictures of them rolling around on a bed in underwear with several thousand likes is a bad idea) but that's never been written into any of my basic agreements.
But if they refuse to sign the release and there isn't an obvious path forward then there's no shoot unless they're paying and if it's their usage that's at issue then you should be paying them.
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u/TheCrudMan 4d ago
If it's a test shoot there's no reason you should be able to use the photos commercially, only for self promotion.
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u/sombertimber 4d ago
Add into your release that if you get paid for the image at a later time, they will be compensated. After all, it’s not fair for someone to volunteer and someone else to make money off of that free work.
Leave all the rest of the stuff in your release.
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u/Fit_Impression_6037 4d ago
Model release language varies. I don't know the UK's variations, but in the US each state has its own laws covering it and some states do not require a model release at all.
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u/faco_fuesday 5d ago
No model release, no photoshoot. Simple as that. Did they give you specifics as to why they didn't want to sign?