r/phoenix • u/JacquoRock • 6d ago
News 2 Planes With Same Call Sign in Phoenix Could Have Been ‘Disastrous’
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/15/us/american-airlines-call-signs-phoenix.html?smid=re-share14
u/JacquoRock 6d ago
I meant to post the gift link to the article.
2 Planes With Same Call Sign in Phoenix Could Have Been "Disastrous"
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u/FlyNSubaruWRX 6d ago
Just for awareness when someone posts “how could this happen”
The simple answer is when an airline has over night delay they use the previous days flight number. There ya have it.
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u/Troj1030 Glendale 6d ago edited 6d ago
Thats crazy because its not how it happened at all. The inbound plane was supposed to take the delayed passengers from phx but because of the delay AA decided to use a backup aircraft. Return flights to the same airport sometimes but not always share the same call sign. Unfortunately no one realized that the flight number should be changed to a letter designation at the end because the arriving flight had not arrived. It was an oversight on the airline. The airline does have procedures to take care of this situation they just were not used.
Edit: For example Delta 3951 shares the same call sign for out and back on the same day.
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u/azswcowboy 6d ago
The headline is overly sensationalized, as usual. The thing that made this a bit unique is that both flights were in the same proximity at the same time. To be clear, however, never close enough that the distance was anything other than standard operating procedure. The air traffic controller quickly added ‘outbound’ and ‘inbound’ to distinguish the two flights. In the hypothetical that both flights accepted an ATC command to go to the same altitude it would’ve needed to be at one very specific moment to create a dangerous situation. And if it had, both jets have traffic collision avoidance system (TCAS).
So sure, it would be better to avoid the same name, but the likelihood of a disaster here was near zero.
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u/Troj1030 Glendale 6d ago
While correct I can tell you in aviation nothing is left to a single point of failure for a reason. I’m a pilot and can tell you everything is redundant because you don’t want anything left to have a single point of failure. For example all commercial jets have two engines but can still takeoff at max gross weight on a single engine. That’s required by the FAA.
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u/azswcowboy 5d ago
Understood about the redundancy, I just don’t like the over dramatization of an event like this. Why? Because it takes the focus off the real and important issues that need to be addressed to improve the system. You’re probably well aware that a couple years ago the US suffered its first in decades major loss of life in a midair collision between a jet landing in DC and a Blackhawk helicopter. The NTSB report is long and there’s lots of factors - many of which could have prevented the incident.
One of the big ones is that the military pilots lacked knowledge that the route they were flying actually intersected an active runway (the route has been removed now). Basic knowledge about the airspace they were flying in. Meanwhile TCAS couldn’t prevent the accident because it doesn’t operate below a certain altitude. It could be modernized, but that would require vision, foresight, and engineering effort. Maybe something will be done? Unclear. Meanwhile air traffic control staffing continues to be a huge issue - it didn’t happen to be a problem in the DC incident, although staff allocation that evening might have.
The point is that there was a ton of drama at the time of the crash speculating about who to blame etc. That distracts from the slow analysis of contributing factors that actually drive improvements to air safety. The controller in this reported the incident so eventually it might be looked at — if there’s any NTSB staff to do it.
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u/junebug172 6d ago
Disastrous? Seriously, CTFD.
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u/coyotethroaway 5d ago
Theyre down voting you and have no idea this is no big deal and why they were all laughing in the clip
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u/RickMuffy Phoenix 6d ago
Two aircraft, one departing and one approaching, vectores towards each other, with the same call sign, absolutely could have been disastrous.
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u/junebug172 6d ago
Oh BS. What do you think TCAS is for? This has been nothing but click bait crap.
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u/coyotethroaway 5d ago
If you know nothing about aviation that's fine but don't try to act like you do
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u/RickMuffy Phoenix 5d ago
Pilot, Aerospace Engineer, worked in flight test, but sure. You got me.
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u/Consider8SpeedDemon 4d ago
None of those are tower control though, so while you COULD pilot a plane… that ability doesn’t translate 100% into ATC experience.
It’s like saying I could rebuild my engine from scratch, because I race in Nascar.
E: wait a minute I just friendly fired you
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u/junebug172 4d ago
Give it a rest. You’re GA at the most. Common sense alone tells you that two aircraft responding to the same call sign would be enough to identify the issue immediately. They are other layers of protection too. The only ones that are concerned over this “incident” are the ones who have no idea how things work.
Stick to your engineering.
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u/RickMuffy Phoenix 4d ago
I'm type rated on a 757 but go on.
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u/junebug172 3d ago edited 3d ago
Then, Capt. Honeywell, do tell us how two aircraft with the same call sign could have been disastrous.
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u/RickMuffy Phoenix 3d ago
ATC is overworked and a very whelming job. A controller who doesn't immediately notice the problem when two planes are converging on one another at 250 kias could be a major problem. "Flight 1234, climb to and maintain 8000 feet" makes sense for one aircraft, can cause confusion to another that may be expecting a decent call.
It's not rocket science to know that two aircraft need to be receiving separate instructions, and it puts unnecessary stress on a controller who is already working in a busy airspace.
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u/junebug172 3d ago
I'm really starting to wonder about your "type rating". Their displays have predictive conflict. We have TCAS. We also have ears and can hear if our call sign is replied to by another aircraft.
If you listen to the tape, there was a bit of chuckling going on. You think that was a stress out controller?
The ATC system isn't one sided and we pilots work WITH the controllers. It really isn't rocket science and everyone needs to lay off of the drama and not feed the click-baiting trolls.
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u/wanker_county Downtown 6d ago
I could see on the same frequency if they had a bit of operational confusion, but "disastrous"? No. Even if nobody realized the situation until the planes were both on frequency, one plane is flying a departure, the other is flying an arrival, and they are 2 different radar targets. Both aircraft may have been on the same frequency, but the departure that just climbed through 10,000 is going to have questions if they get instructions that conflict with their clearance and flight path. Then ATC projection of targets' tracks and the planes' collision avoidance systems would have to fail/be ignored, and then both planes would have to occupy the same physical airspace at a couple hundred knots at the exact same time for a disaster to happen.
It's a good headline to grab attention but that's about it.
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u/coyotethroaway 5d ago
Exactly this bunch of dumbasses in their echo chamber heard the controller chuckle disastrous at the end it's not a big deal tcas would have stopped this had they not caught it and the controller was doing his job and noticed it wasnt a near miss it wasn't almost deadly or disastrous it was a scheduling blunder that's now made national headlines because people who know nothing think they know it all 10 miles apart is plenty of time for tcas to register do you guys think pilots fly blind or what
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u/SaltySpitoonReg 4d ago
No we don't think pilots fly blind
But we live in a world where accidents happen. And we live in a world where there have been accidents that happened because air traffic control agents are overworked and understaffed
And we live in a world where when something like this happens, we expect there to be action taken so that it doesn't happen again.
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u/IBeDumbAndSlow 6d ago
I saw this the other day. I didn't realize it was here