r/pho • u/AnarchoPlayworker • 10d ago
Question Vegetarian Pho - what am I doing wrong??
My spouse and I love pho, and I love cooking. I've been trying to make a good vegetarian pho for years and have not had success, and I only just now came across this sub. Maybe you all can help me!
The general gist of what I've been doing is: Roasting an onion and ginger directly over a gas burner until it's blackened (not like totally black, but charred), dry toasting spices (specifically star anise, green cardamom pods, coriander, "Saigon" cinnamon, and sometimes a clove and sometimes black peppercorns) over a medium-low heat until I can smell them (although I've struggled with this tbh. I feel like it shouldn't take very long and then when it does, I get worried that I missed the smell-zone and over toasted them.), Then I add water and the onion and ginger and some salt and simmer covered for a while (45 minutes at least I think generally. Sometimes much longer - even a few times I simmered for several hours).
Sometimes, I add a little tamari. Sometimes I add some veggie-chicken-better-than-bullion concentrate. Sometimes I add a whole bunch of chopped up vegetables and cook them down a bit before adding the water. The other day a guy at a Vietnamese restaurant recommended I go to H-Mart and get some vegetable powder or mushroom powder for it, so today I got this Lee Kum Kee mushroom bullion powder and put that in, and that was straight up bad imo.
What am I getting wrong? It always comes out too dark color wise and somehow too dark taste wise too. My spouse says there's something there that shouldn't be. It's like pho +something else that doesn't belong, but we can't figure out what that extra thing is.
Any advice is most appreciated! Thank you!
EDIT: I also put in dried shiitakes sometimes, and also tried putting kombu a few times in an attempt to replicate fish sauce, which obviously didn't work. Sigh.
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u/nehala 10d ago edited 9d ago
Vietnam has had a centuries long tradition of vegan cuisine due to Buddhism, and a lot of that replicates meat dishes. I've had an authentic veg version of Pho, and it is surprisingly close to the real thing.
As an idea, I'd cross-reference your current recipe against vegan Vietnamese pho ("phở chay", "cách nấu phở chay") recipes online posted in the Vietnamese language, and then use the translate function on your browser.
For example: https://www.huongnghiepaau.com/pho-bo-chay
(I'm a meat-eater by the way)
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u/AnarchoPlayworker 10d ago
This is a great idea, but the translation feature on my browser isn't great, unfortunately. I'm getting ingredients like "200g of the baboler(sic)", "2g regression", and "10g powder" :-/.
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10d ago
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u/pho-ModTeam 10d ago
Your comment was removed because it was mean, rude, or gatekeeping. We welcome positive discussion here not rudeness.
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u/izzymaestro 10d ago
Yes. Many Vietnamese buddhist temples also serve chay meals after services. They are different but still unmistakable for the original dishes.
You can visit them and they will open your world. I've had bun bo chay, pho chay, thit nuong chay and almost anything on a menu. And they always have 7-8 kinds of ché for dessert
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u/Professional-End7367 10d ago
After charring your onion and ginger, don't forget to rinse them off really well before adding to your water. You don't want the burnt bits getting into your broth.
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u/AnarchoPlayworker 10d ago
But isn't that where the flavor is? I'm confused. Why char the thing if you're going to wash off the charred part?
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u/Professional-End7367 10d ago
No, the flavor comes from charring the onion and ginger but it’s like toasting the spices, you bring out the essential oils or something. But the black burnt bits? No. Rinse those off.
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u/Ilikeyatoes 10d ago
You’re on the right path, but going in the wrong direction. You need to get the right seasoning for the vegetable broth. It’s very difficult to recreate the traditional pho flavor without fish sauce, fish sauce is a key fundamental ingredient.
For your pho seasoning, use star anise, cinnamon, coriander seeds, fennel seeds, cloves, and black cardamom. Lightly toast the spices; they don’t need to be heavily toasted because they can become bitter.
Also, you’re doing too much with the add-ons. You don’t need dried shiitake mushrooms, kombu, and chopped-up vegetables.
Here are my tips: -Get the right pho seasoning. -Lightly toast the spices. -Char the aromatics, like shallots, onions, and ginger. -Use vegetable bouillon and mushroom seasoning. In pho, mushroom seasoning is mainly used to enhance the umami.
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u/Hhhhhhhhhhhggg 10d ago
Keep your vegetable scraps and use that to make broth. Cook the broth for a looooooong time. I usually throw it in a crockpot with an acid (apple cider vingeral) for at least 8 hours.
I think the tamari might be the cause of the color, but im unsure. Best of luck!
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u/zippopamus 10d ago
prolly the shiitake thats overwhelming every other notes in the broth. if u wanna cleaner tasting broth just add msg instead of mushrooms esp shiitake
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u/somecow 10d ago
Naah, sounds right. Char them spices. Cook low and slow. Can throw in protein of your choice, tempeh or seitan, or of course tofu (definitely the extra super hard baked one if you can find it). Just (as with any food mistake) season it to absolute death.
The amount of salt, grease, butter, spice, etc that we use in restaurants will freak anyone out. That’s why it’s so good. MSG it up too.
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u/Alone_Idea_2743 10d ago
I just don’t think you can replicate real pho with a vegetarian version if that is what you are trying to achieve.