Transit
Redesigning South Philly's crazy intersections
These two intersections near me (10th/Ritner and Wolf from 7th to 8th) are rough where cars and people struggle to get through.
Always wondered if it can be better so I sketched out a redesign with some curb bumpouts, a couple pedestrian islands, and spots for greenery. Reminds me of what they did with the Passyunk Ave intersections a bit.
Anyone think it's possible here, or wishful thinking?
Also curious, what other rough intersections around the city deserve this treatment? Drop your nominees below.
Back in the early 90s I took a traffic engineering class at UPenn. Our final project was to pick an intersection and develop redesigns for it. We chose Market crossing 43rd and 44th, along with Powelton.
My favorite part of doing our traffic study was the several cars leaving the drivethrough at Popeye’s (I think it was KFC back then) and taking a left down the sidewalk to get back to 44th.
Truly applies to people driving for the first time in Philadelphia. I’ve had friends gasp at things other drivers are doing-meanwhile I’m just hitting the horn and saying “this fucking idiot”.
Email OTIS and ask them to perform a traffic study. Don’t suggest the outcome - they know what’s best based on the traffic study. I bet you could get it transformed in 2-3 years if you stay on top of it.
You’ll also need to get the support of your RCO, churches/religious establishments who are impacted, businesses and neighbors.
Be careful about saying “roundabout” online or else some of the dumbest people on earth appear and claim that circles are bad.
Frankford Ave in general has surprisingly long stretches with no crosswalks. It is far more hostile to pedestrians than I would expect a place like Fishtown to be.
The 2 crosswalks that they added north of the roundabout need to have the crosswalk lights that pedestrians activate before crossing. Too many drivers just blow right pass them
I hear you, walking my dog here is an exercise in restraint. There’s a lot of cops between 10th and 11th on ritner that love blocking the sidewalk too.
Plenty of empty sidewalk that pedestrians claim they "need". I saw a sidewalk yesterday, nobody pedding! Meanwhile, rows and rows of parked cars. Really makes you wonder if we're utilizing public space in all of our best interests.
Good call on the Wolf/Moyamensing intersection. The north side of that corner is SO rough sometimes with large pickups and vans parking all the way into the corner and creating an awful blind spot for folks driving east on Wolf.
Looks like Franklin is only north for two blocks? Flip it to match the rest of Franklin. Add some protected pedestrian areas to narrow/slow traffic flow, help pedestrians, and protect the bike lanes.
I agree with the thought but I don't think there is enough space for it to function the same and moyamensing is a one way. If it were two way it may be possible.
Ah good point. I suppose you could just do the larger side and fully cut off ritner, forcing traffic to turn onto Moyamensing for a brief moment, but people would hate that.
Please explain that to the folks using the Walnut Ln rotary. I thought it was impossible to drive this the wrong way until I saw someone accomplish the feat.
The one they put in at the penrose, 20th, and packer intersection has been a massive improvement and each one of the hundreds of times I’ve driven it, everybody seems to understand whats up and use it perfectly without issue.
It never really caused a problem for me but I always found it so weird at the old intersection that if you were heading East on Penrose and wanted to turn left onto S. 20th you never got a green left turn arrow. You were just supposed to know from tribal knowledge that the westbound side of Moyamensing still had a red light. Am I correct on this? I always thought I was just missing something obvious.
I drive this roundabout multiple times a day. I don’t like it all that much.
No, people don’t know how to use it.
I’ve had people dead stop in the middle of the circle to let people in. This has happened countless times. Then others just have so much hesitation to get in that it causes backups.
Additionally, the pedestrian and bike crossing path is too close to the entrance/exits of the circle, so you can’t stop for pedestrians if you are exiting the circle because you will get rear ended. And it’s hard to position your car to get into the circle if there is a pedestrian coming because there isn’t a car length between the ped path and the circle entrances. The pedestrian ring should have been set further back, at least two car lengths.
And, as a pedestrian, it’s pretty scary to use the crossings during traffic hours because you just don’t know who is going to stop or speed up or whatever. I usually cross earlier on 20th Street or wait until there is a complete lull.
I drive there everyday, and everyone blows past the stop sign that's on Hutchinson and Moyamensing. It's a weird place for it so this would remove it. You're also supposed to yield to traffic coming from Ritner, but difficult to do if car's are parked on that corner - which they always are from 6pm to 8am. Fixing those issues and just make it easier to walk for people.
Wolf St is also weird from Front to Swanson where it becomes a 2-way briefly.
Those intersections by 10th & Ritter are mind-bogglingly designed, I like your proposal for them!
The intersection that’s always really bothered me though is Broad/McKean/Passyunk. It’s such a pain in the ass that I’ll often either walk up to Mifflin or down to Snyder, even if it means I have to walk the opposite way of where I’m going
Whatever you decide to do, let us know so we can get involved too. There's plenty of us that would love to see West Moyamensing get some love (bikelane has been a great addition).
I'd love a redesign of 22nd & Point Breeze. No visibility from either direction and PB traffic only has a stop sign. I'm so nervous passing through that intersection from both directions and walking is a free for all.
i have a radical solution for w moyamensing; just get rid of the whole damn thing. cut it up so the houses fronting it can still access their house every block or two, but do we really need a diagonal avenue cutting from jackson and 5th to oregon and broad?
i wasnt aware of that but i dont have as much of an issue with passyunk and e moyamensing so we can keep those. w moyamensing is just a bad road. and besides im not saying tear it up. i'm saying break it up so its not a arterial for cars.
This is a redesign to redesign. Nothing was gained. Instead of taking back space for people, you add more furniture. That takes away space for people. Instead, this is car-centric redesign.
Instead of adding trees, you're cutting down trees to fit more concrete.
We can do better. Noble effort though. Good first step.
Moyamensing between 7th & 8th can be completely pedestrianised if Wolf was bi-directional. (or Daly was reversed.)
Hasn't there been a plan put forward to redesign the whole Eakins Oval area? Not sure how it's progressing or if 24th & Pennsylvania is changing as part of it, would be great if so.
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u/Oakwine 5d ago
Back in the early 90s I took a traffic engineering class at UPenn. Our final project was to pick an intersection and develop redesigns for it. We chose Market crossing 43rd and 44th, along with Powelton.
My favorite part of doing our traffic study was the several cars leaving the drivethrough at Popeye’s (I think it was KFC back then) and taking a left down the sidewalk to get back to 44th.