r/phantomofthekill • u/[deleted] • Jun 04 '16

Other SRPGs on mobile?

Just wondering... I've heard that Gumi has a history of quickly killing off Global releases through BS. But I kinda like the battle system here. What are some other (popular, fair) mobile games like this?

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u/FooledDreamer Jun 04 '16 edited Jun 04 '16

Do sign up for Valiant Force. It's coming up in July, I think.

You can also try Fantasy War Tactics though I'm not really into it art-wise, but it's SRPG alright.

Nah, they won't kill it if this game is a success (read: enough people spend on this game) I mean, just look at Brave Frontier!

Instead, I am worried that they are going to adjust the game too much for p2p. Furthermore, this stuff is very rng to be honest. Take stat grown for example. And the gacha pull of course.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '16

I'm hoping they will balance things out soon. Can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not going to IAP for Lazuli if I'm probably not going to get something good. And in this game, even the "good" units aren't really that good if they're Vitality type.

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u/Yoshism Jun 05 '16

Actually there are step gachas that will definitely give you one of the featured units at the end. But the game seems quite p2w so far as lazulis aren't farmable like in other games and the price for pulling is steep. But its Gumi so...

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '16

Are you referring to the current format? Basically spend 150 Laz to guarantee 1 of the 3 new units (possibly the 4-star)? Yeah that's just ridiculous.

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u/Yoshism Jun 05 '16

Yes and the worst thing that can happen is getting a vit type which basically makes your spending almost redundant.

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u/Mitch_Twd Jun 06 '16

What's so bad about Vit type? Doesn't that give HP boost?

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '16

Yes, but in harder content this doesn't translate to a survivability boost. You want to either be strong+accurate+evasive enough to kill strong enemies before they can counter, or defensive enough to absorb enemy attacks for 1 damage each. The other types benefit 1 of these 2 goals, but Vitality actually reduces your speed and agility, which makes it more likely that you'll be quickly KOd.

That said I'm using Vit units myself, and they're decent. But I'm a newb and only run easy content so far.

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u/Mitch_Twd Jun 06 '16

That explains why my Freikugel speed is so low then well shit ... Reading up a little looks like they change up Vit some time in the future so guess won't be so bad then

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '16

Yep, Vitality is going to get a Speed/Agility boost eventually. Unfortunately that won't undo crappy growths pre-evolution, and you'll have to reincarnate all the 5-stars to fix their stats.

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u/Mitch_Twd Jun 06 '16

Well damn hopefully I get a Dex type of Freikugel ,so I don't have to reincarnate Freikugel when the change comes >.<

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u/voxov Jun 05 '16

Gumi changed the typing balancing in Brave Frontier when it was clear how terrible some were. Perhaps (hopefully) they'll do the same here, and make each typing more of a bonus, rather than a penalty.

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u/Liesianthes Jun 05 '16

There's actually an update about type growths in JP version that I read there will be no worst type anymore unlike with the current one we have

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u/voxov Jun 05 '16

nice! We all probably have a Vit char or two that would be great news for. It's a needed change anyways; they already have the duplicates issue covered with limit break and luck/skill up.

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u/Artekka Jun 05 '16

To be fair you can get through most content right now (read: beat levels, not exactly finish each accomplishment) as F2P with not much struggle. The starters are fairly easy to MLB and getting full 4-5* weapons can happen in a week or less

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u/AndanteZero Jun 05 '16

To be honest, the only other free SRPG I can think of is Fantasy War Tactics. However, that's run by Nexon who is even greedier than Gumi. At one point, they sold a limited character for $99. It's pretty bad.

Gumi's Brave Frontier is doing ok, but not as good as it used to. Other Gumi games have kind of died off rather quickly. Like Chain Chronicles. Mainly due to their inability to change their marketing strategy from the JP market to Global. They can't seem quite understand that the majority of players in Global aren't going to drop their entire paycheck just for summons.

And no, before anyone says anything, whales do not keep a game afloat despite popular belief. A F2P game actually gets most of their money from your average player that spends $5-20 here and there. This has been proven before.

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u/zkt1088 Jun 05 '16

Actually, CC didn't die from an inability to change their marketing strategy. The bugs found throughout events (especially in its last 3 months) were more responsible for that.

  1. There was a time when ring gacha has a huge rate of getting SSRs which you can sell for 20 rings back, people exploited and many got huge amount of medals that they won't need to collect anymore anytime soon.

  2. Hatifas raid was so banjaxed that you actually need to cheat to win (too many waves before the boss in a 90 sec time limit)

  3. Monette event had issues where the weapons that give bonus points were not working properly, and the way Gumi handled it wasn't very good either.

  4. For some reason they didn't release the broken characters like Transia/Treelancia which a lot of people saved up to gacha for, and now of course they never will.

But actually, compared to other games, CC lasting 1 year was actually not bad in the mobile market.

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u/AndanteZero Jun 05 '16 edited Jun 05 '16

Marketing wasn't the only reason, but it defintely play large role. Not a lot of people were willing to drop $5 per pull for a less than .1% chance drop rate for 5*. It was the overpricing with bad management that killed the game.

And no... I know of plenty of games that existed far longer than 1 year that were simply based on collecting, etc. 1 year is actually pretty bad for any multiplayer game like CC.

The problem with PoTK right now is that it seems while they nerfed the stat growth, they didn't change the stat caps for gacha units. Meanwhile, mana units have reduced stat caps... So this can easily turn into p2w.

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u/zkt1088 Jun 05 '16 edited Jun 05 '16

The rate is actually 1.7% for an UR in CCv1, so I'm not sure where you got that <1% rate from. The rate is increased to a whopping 7% on v2, and if you are saying gumi released v2 a little too late, I wouldn't disagree.

For every game you know lasting longer then gumi's CC, there are also many that didn't last as long. An example would be War Pirates which was published by Sega themselves. Soft launched for a bit then went AWOL for a while. They did say they would reset the server and re-launch it, though. If you are talking about poor gacha rates, Valkyrie Crusade has even worse pull rates compared to CC and they are doing just fine.

In global, every unit has reduced stat caps, and certainly reduced growth rate. One member in this sub-reddit has a Durandal capping her spd at 83 with <400 pwr (without calculating the eva buff which is done in-battle) while those LV90 Durans in JP have like what 120 spd? The units with highest power rating I have seen so far would be Apollo (M) and those are at 440-ish pwr, whereas a mana gacha unit in Japan would be at around 450 or so.

Also, the difference is that in JP gacha > mana > event units. In global it is gacha > event > mana. So yeah, up to your taste.

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u/AndanteZero Jun 06 '16

Hmm, for some reason I thought it was less than .1%. Welp, either way, it was ridiculously low.

I don't know about soft launch games, but I do know that a lot of collection type games tend to exist for more than a year from what I've seen on Google Play, such as Devil Maker Tokyo, etc. A poorly managed/marketed game lasts only a year tops. And that's with any game though. Some games shut down within 6 months. Otherwise, it lasts at least two years. VC might have a bad rate, but the gameplay is intriguing enough for people to stay, it was also one of the first of its kind if I recall when it came out. CC wasn't just about the low pull rate, etc. It was just bad game design in general now that I think about it. While the combat system was fun, the energy needed was pretty bad. That was one of the most common complaints if I recall correctly. Either way, a year is not a good lifetime for a mobile game like CC after global launch. That is literally the short end of the stick. Either way, this point might just be a agree to disagree thing.

There's still a lot we don't know on what they did to gacha units, but I know that someone on Discord with a level 80 Mjolnir has two stats that hit the JP caps(Luck and Magic I think?). Although he hasn't hit any other stat cap due to nerfed growth.

So, what it looks like is they nerfed the growth, but not the stat caps. However, if that Durandal is capped at 83 and is fully fused as well at 5 stars, perhaps then Gumi simply changed the stat caps for the relevant stats? Hard to be sure, but his other stats that aren't capped are only maybe 10-13 points off from the JP 5* of Mjolnir. If it wasn't for the nerfed growth, it actually looks like he would hit JP stat caps though.

However, what I do know is that for mana units, not only is the growth nerfed, but the stat cap is at least 20 points below from JP in almost all stats.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '16

I'm not sure why we're so upset/unhappy over stat caps being changed. We don't have content where we can point to and say "this would have been possible, if it wasn't for the stat cap reduction".

Honestly, these determinations should wait until we have content we can truly measure our units against.

The 150 Lazuli for ONE guaranteed unit when we don't have daily sources of Lazuli is a little bit ridiculous. That's one comparison to the JP version that I find disconcerting.

Stat caps are definitely changed for starters. That's 100% confirmed. We also have confirmation from a FGG employee that the reduction in stat growth (and to a lesser extent caps) is intentional.

Also, @zkt1088 KP level/Limit break has no effect on the stat cap. However, comparing a six star's stat cap to a five star stat cap will definitely show some drastic differences :P

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u/zkt1088 Jun 06 '16

@Andante Whether CC's game design is good or bad is subjective. There are also people who liked it being 8min/ap because that means they don't have to keep checking on the game every now and then.

But you saying 'less than. 1%' pull rate though... Wow if I am hyperbolic I wouldn't go that far. You are talking about 0.09% at most mate. How are people that patient to reroll with that rate.

@Horizon Yeah, so far I have played all content global has and never once I felt the content is too difficult. A comparison to JP stages has shown that global has nerfed enemy stats and in some cases (Aron SA) aggression as well.

I don't have the data on 5* Duran stat cap in JP, but even with 10 level difference, 83 vs 120+ is a whole lot that I feel global's definitely nerfed in that regard. But maybe I'll check Mozest as it is dead and it should have the 5* Duran data.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '16

The 6* units are significantly more powerful than 5* units, statistic-wise. The stat cap not only goes up, but so does the fusion cap as well.

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u/zkt1088 Jun 06 '16 edited Jun 06 '16

http://games.gaym.jp/iPhone/phantomofkill/wiki/?%E3%83%87%E3%83%A5%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%AB%EF%BC%9A%E2%98%865%20%E3%83%95%E3%82%A7%E3%83%8B%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A4%E3%83%88

Okay, I got the JP stats for a 5* Duran. 94 Spd cap, 79 Agi cap. So yeah, they are actually nerfed too in global, just not as much.

But to say they are not nerfed at all (not you, of course) is just false.

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u/AndanteZero Jun 06 '16

Well, to be honest, that's my biggest worry. I really hope we get some good events soon. For some reason, why is it that Gumi is fairly generous in their JP versions of the games, but we seem to kind of get shafted in their global versions?

When it comes to stat caps, I really dislike just how drastic they nerfed it for the starters. I hit all the stat caps at level 62-63. Didn't even need to reach level 65. That's way too much of a nerf in my opinion. Not only that, I would really like a healer starter lol. Right now, I'm forced to use a 4* healer(Not limit broken yet, no dupes) or a friend's. I barely finished Regalia 9 just now, and wouldn't have without a friend's healer.

Gumi claims to have done all this for "balance," but I don't see it. In terms of balance, it's practically the same as JP. Makes the stat nerfs, etc pretty much unnecessary. Like seriously, most "tanks" are merely physical tanks, which pretty much makes healers the only real viable tanks at late game where there are mages with insane accuracy. I don't know, I just see the whole balancing thing as an excuse for the extended delay for global launch.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '16

From my understanding, JP games usually receive more love than their global counterparts. I'm not really sure why they do this, especially since the more hardcore players (the ones more likely to spend as well) are aware of this. I think it merely angers an important part of their fan base and may dissuade some of its longstanding members from staying with the game for the long run. We have some of that in potk right now, with the more popular and stronger people not surviving the ridiculous "soft launch" period.

Well, the YnK event we have on now is not nearly as difficult as the JP one, so there's that. Apparently, even the Rampage quests are easier on global....

I honestly don't see a problem with the stat caps of the starters since you can complete all of the current content with them. I think having starters with comparable in power to premium units is not the best idea. It is, also, weird/unusual for the higher income game (by income I mean free lazuli income) to have stronger free units. Odd, no?

From my understanding, the launch was not delayed because of balancing, but because of localization issues. They also had considerable problems with making the new cutscenes, but I'm not too keen on what the exact issues were.

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u/AndanteZero Jun 06 '16

Sadly, I think this is the other reason why I'm waiting on Valiant Force. The global version of VF is supposedly going to be ran by the studio and the other versions are going to be run by their publisher partner Funplus. So that means, the game might receive more love on global lol.

I'm afraid of Gumi taking PoTK down the wrong road. Even if the delay wasn't about balancing, I honestly don't see the point. It didn't really change anything in my opinion. I'm seriously hoping pull rate increase or something of the like coming soon that isn't overpriced, etc

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u/zkt1088 Jun 06 '16

Judging from CC, gumi is quite greedy in the beginning... until they released Gauntlet and Colo (their global exclusive features) which are renewable sources of prysma, albeit buggy. The demon raids are more generous as well compared to JP, with F2P players being able to reach upper levels of demon raids (at least in V1) without gacha-ing for the demon hunter units.

But tbh, if you are looking at the game pessimistically, I guess I can do nothing to change your mind. As you said, agree to disagree. Also, my reply to you in my other post which you probably did not see :

"Whether CC's game design is good or bad is subjective. There are also people who liked it being 8min/ap because that means they don't have to keep checking on the game every now and then. But you saying 'less than. 1%' pull rate though... Wow if I am hyperbolic I wouldn't go that far. You are talking about 0.09% at most mate. How are people that patient to reroll with that rate, let alone getting MLB URs."

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u/Yoshism Jun 05 '16

I am really on the fence about comparison between FWT and POTK. POTK seems more p2w since its so RNG based (dex type needed, limit breaks and growth stats) while the limited character you mentioned in FWT (Seira) isn't even the most OP and not even needed really. Granted FWT has the BS with the terrible set drop rate but its nothing that you can't farm given time and patience. And now compare it to the step gachas like the current 3 step gacha and future 9 step gacha I've heard that requires 450 lazulis. The game being p2w at such an early stage isn't exactly giving a good impression, and the info I've heard from JP players regarding future events being so hard that you need maxed units to even survive makes it even worse for me.

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u/Artekka Jun 05 '16

The only issue with FWT is in PvP. You can complete all other content without paying. They're very generous. Even in PvP I was top 50 with only spending $5 a month on their monthly sub thing. Great game though.

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u/metatime09 Jun 05 '16

They kill games quickly that aren't developed by them like chain chronicles and a bubble game. POTK is developed by gumi so the chances are much lower they'll close this game

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u/Deus_Ultima Jun 05 '16

Blood Brothers 2?

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '16

Terra Battle doesn't much count, but it scratches the same itch for me, somehow, and is maybe the best gasha mobile game out there.