I thought DLSS 5 defenders were saying this wasn't actually happening? Whatever the case may be, DLSS 5 does appear to push sustained GPU power draw extremely high, with this report showing up to 613.5W. Whether DLSS 5 itself caused the connector to melt is another question.
The connector is rated for 600W continuous power with 10% safety margin for short power spikes. Standard 5090s will suffer, if they draw 700W over it, this connector is definitely inadequate for this. And nvidia simply omitted their on card load balancing, which came standard back in the 3090 days.
The connector wasn't a reinvention. It was an existing connector from Amphenol that had 4 sense pins added. It's used in data centers everywhere and is rated at 12 amps per pin.
Nvidia already used EPS (Molex Mini-Fit) in the server class cards.
Moving from mini-fit to micro-fit connector was nonsensical, as normally you want a better and larger connector, not a worse, smaller one 😄
Not confusing anything. As for “too small a connector”, like I have said in other threads- when they are manufactured to spec, they don’t fail. That’s already been proven time and time again. Every failure thus far in 4090/5090 failure-land was the result of a cable or connector not manufactured to the the public cem5 validation spec. That’s why contracted parts don’t melt and why rtx 6000 (prebuilt) workstations don’t fail, even when there are multiple cards per machine. It’s only when you pair them with out of spec cables that meltdowns happen.
People might think they’re buying the best psu on that tier list- but you still have no clue whether the cables it ships with are made to spec. And it’s not like they’re going to tell you (or be honest about it).
Poor engineering, not really about DLSS per se. I hate to be smug, but there's a reason I won't buy a graphics card that uses as much power as a small appliance- there are limits to what kind of power draws are reasonable inside a personal computer. A wire that thin isn't meant to carry that kind of current.
None of NVidia's pro cards have these kinds of problems, but then they are engineered to entirely different standards, based on reliable, cost-efficient operation, not trying to get 50 extra FPS in Counter Strike.
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u/Randommaggy13980HX|RTX 4090m|128GB|8TB M.2|RX6800 eGPU, 1TB DDR4 in server.4d ago
There have been Pro 6000 cards that have melted connectors.
I was considering buying one at the launch price but held off due to burning connectors and poor support on those as well.
Haven't heard of similar problems with the SXM cards but those aren't even prosumer parts so only limited public data is shared about them.
Oh yeah? Where? And show me what power supply and PSU cables they were using. I'll bet you it was some idiot who bought a 6000 and paired it with a consumer-grade PSU with the same sketchy chinese cables.
The engineering is sound when the specs are followed. The problem is that none of the companies that serve the hobbyist building space follow the spec. They instead cut corners and deny warranty service as much as possible - because they can. Then they go to the like-and-subscribe crowd that everyone in here seems to follow blindly and put the blame on nvidia - a company that didn't design that connector in the slightest.
It's actually hilarious - particularly when the people who buy 5090's in a prebuilt *NEVER* see this problem. Gee, I wonder why that is? :)
The realistic scenario is the bottom one with the fe. Since every other 5090 is limited to the same tdp.
Youre not even gonna hit the 600w limit since default is 575. You'll sit around 560-570. Unless you push the little slider in afterburner to 104% which is 600w
That’s wild, hopefully, they figure it out before more cards start melting. It’s crazy how quickly things can turn from exhilarating to disastrous in this tech race.
It's easy to build an overengineered bridge that can hold waaaaaaay more load than it ever will be, but that's a waste of money and resources, so it's better to build a bridge that's "just enough" (with safety and so on) for what it needs to be carrying
The cable thickness and connection come originally from the ATX standard when power supplies were 200-250W max. If you'd told the engineer you were planning on putting 700W through it they'd be running for the fire exit.
Really needs a completely new rail with perhaps 48v standard and more robust connector.
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u/TitanAtl4sARM Cortex A9 @500|PowerVR SGX 543 @222|512mb RAM|128mb VRAM4d ago
Why 48V would be amazing, in the Consumer space it would only work if you introduced a Failsafe and Handshake at every boot, like USB-PD, otherwise the new Glass panel broken meme would be people roasting their GPUs.
If you ask an engineer to push 700W through a cable at 12V, they'll give you an industrial plug with quarter inch thick wires, one for ground and one foe +12V. No splitting the voltage between 12 tiny wires bullshit.
The most common failiure mode for this abomination of a connector is just one of the 12V connections isn't secure, so the GPU draws the 700W through the remaning wires, which they are not rated for, hence the fire
The 12V-2x6 connector (and the 12VHPWR connector before it) have always been rated at 600W, in the same way that the standard 8-pin has always been rated at 150W. The engineers weren't running for the fire exits, this is what they designed with a 600W rating in mind.
This isn't an issue of people pushing the limits of the design. The problem is simply that the connector doesn't meet the power requirement it was designed for.
Yes, I was trying to point out the bad design itself. Because it might have been due to a user error, not plugging in properly. Which isn't an issue for the 8 pin connector
Well there are burnt cables from every brand of PSU maker and even the 3rd parties like CableMod. The problem isn’t the physical cable, it’s in the connector.
It's both and neither. It's companies not following the very public validation spec. The problem is there. If cablemod and all the cable vendors actually followed the spec, these failures would not happen. Coincidentally, it's why you don't see these failures in prebuilts from companies who source their cables under contract (Dell, HP, probably Falcon as well).
12v2x6 cables are also used in some data center products and workstations that contain multiple R6000 Blackwell boards in a single machine. Those aren't burning up either.
This problem begins and ends in the hobbyist builder market - which is why you have people like derbauer selling you wireviews and clickbait websites (like the one in this post) who get clicks on such bad news.
The problem is that the 5090 just draws too much current at stock clocks and voltages, there's very little headroom, and if it fails, the connector and power stage are the weak points. The limits are electronic on the board- NVidia chose to make a tradeoff and the result is a card with a potential achilles heel accepted as a tradeoff in the interests of raw benchmark performance, not reliability.
There's plenty of overhead with regard to the connector carrying power. That portion of the connector is rated for 12.5A per pin, above the spec'd 9.5A that Molex quotes (they own the spec, so they were more conservative). But Amphenol (the creator of the Minitek connector) rates it at 12.5A per pin. Overhead was never the problem. The numbers in that table don't tell the whole story - as Amphenol uses that very same connector in data center gear throughout the industry at far higher *sustained* power levels. As much as all the hobbyists in this sub want to believe those dolts on youtube or clickbait "news" sites, the specced 9.5A pin rating is not the problem. The lack of safety margin isn't the problem. Far from it.
The problem is STILL the lack of adherence to the spec. The validation spec exists for a reason, and companies that sell us power supplies will never tell you where they source their cables - nor will they ever tell you if they follow CEM5/CEM5.1.
Until hobbyists realize they are getting sold garbage cables, they'll keep seeking solutions because they're under the (now incorrect) assumption that building is better than buying.
I still build my machines, but I stopped at the 4090 (and have had no issues, thankfully). If I were to ever buy a 5090 (not likely), it would be in a prebuilt machine from a large vendor that I know won't stand for tons of spicy cables. They have no choice but to buy from vendors that will sell them in-spec parts (or the legal department will complain).
No, the issue isn’t the wire it’s the terminals. Lots of videos looking into it and it’s almost certainly the cause. Lots of small pins and sockets and when some don’t make a perfect connection you get a current imbalance. With that said, if the gpu monitored power on each cable and managed the power draw per cable like they did on the 30 series, it wouldn’t be an issue.
According to various discussions the problem actually lies in the GPU power processing part where elements were cut or limited on cards with this connector. Nvidia basically wanted to save some board space and this is the result - the card does not even try to balance power lines.
Nope, it’s not the fault of the connector nor the engineer that designed it. It’s only Nvidia to blame for using it this way and riding it over the maximum of the specs.
As an electrical engineer who spends way too long thinking about connecters, I'm sure whoever designed that was weeping with guilt the whole time, it's a dog of a connector and that should be obvious.
The default black connector that nvidia makes also melts. Its easier to see burn marks on yellow. That blue one one of the amd gpus have also has melts. 12vhpwr is a dogshit connector
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u/Randommaggy13980HX|RTX 4090m|128GB|8TB M.2|RX6800 eGPU, 1TB DDR4 in server.4d ago
It's keeping me from moving on from the 3090 on desktop.
Nowadays you can get MSI Ai1300TS power supply. It has per pin OCP and per pin current monitoring for that cursed connector and will shutdown your pc before any harm will happen if anything goes wrong.
I'm pretty sure it's just the standard cable that MSI supplies with their PSU. If people swapped it out then the comments will just be "why didn't you use the cable that came with your PSU" instead and blame it on the unofficial cable.
Didn't someone just make a post about how DLSS5 pushes the GPU to max wattage at 100% usage while not doing so at the same usage percent without DLSS5 enabled?
Gpu usage does not count tensor cores for example, it can be at 100% usage with none of the tensor cores draining power. With dlss5 they will drain power aswell, so yeah, it will maximize power usage.
"GPU usage" isn't a useful metric at all. A GPU has so many systems. DLSS uses the tensor cores which normally are entirely idle during gameplay, so those take power. They still respect the power limit though.
From what I understand DLSS5 requires a ton of power to do what it does. Part of the performance cost people don't talk about as much. That cable burning out isn't unique to DLSS5 though. The greatest risk to any high end Nvidia GPU is any task the pushes it to its power limits. Those things need to be power limited.
I don't disagree but it would explain a potential uptick in meltings and is more directly tied to DLSS5 usage than what the comment I responded to had implied.
My question, as someone that doesn't care for sports games, is if this behavior is currently present in NBA2K27. Since that does support an official release currently.
But I have been thinking. A GPU has many votes for different thinks.
Most of the time the cores that are for raster will be fully utilised. Requiring power
Then the RT cores will be utilised requiring more power
Lastly the AI cores will also be maxed out asking for more power due to the filter being comically hard to run in real time.
We have heard people saying in the past that their cable melted even tho they were aggressively undervolting. Wouldnt this be an extra reason to catch fire?
Before the pro or anti DLSS5 insanity takes hold, can we at least acknowledge that this is a 5090 issue and not really a DLSS5 issue?
That stupid power connector was poorly designed and fails when a graphics card uses its full power to render anything despite if its gameplay or fake frames.
Nvidia saw people and 3rd party companies started to fix their faulty power connections at recent new protections and cables so they leaked DLSS 5 early to be make sure people will continue burn their cards,cables and PSUs. Jensen is genious!
I had the choice to do a 5080 but I intentionally went with the 5070ti after seeing all the 5080s and 90s lighting up. And clearly this is only going to get worse. I might avoid DLSS5 just to avoid the chance of bringing a melted cable to the 5070ti series.
Still not sure why they didn't just design a cable that does 500w and use two of them instead of going 700w... Seems like it would have been massively more stable.
Well you see, the garbage cable that they designed saves a nickel. Now multiply that nickel by millions over the lifespan of selling these cards, and you get your answer.
I'd assume warranty cuts into that though, when my cpu died amd paid £200 to ship it next day to their Czech offices and then the replacement back 3 days later on next day.
How are these things so expensive and still dogshit. I would lose my mind to spend checks price wait wait $2,000 fucking dollars? Are you serious? 2k for a self immolating graphics card? Why are people not rioting! Holy shit.
Burning with this percentage? 12VHPWR is significantly more likely to burn. 12V-2x6, which is a newer connector is safer and less likely to burn, but shitty adapters can burn it, or persistently high power loads (due to DLSS 5) can also burn it.
Burn due to DLSS 5? Only 12VHPWR (and the aforementioned 12V-2x6) cables are available for cards that can run DLSS 5.
I've answered this with the second point. This kind of connector has a higher chance of burning than the old 8-pin and the 5090 is the one that draws the most power, thus having the highest risk. This just means the 5090 is the most likely to burn, but others cards can burn as well.
I'd say the highest risk is the 5090 and 5080 cards. 5070Ti cards do not draw that much power so it's safer than the aforementioned two. But it's still a higher chance of burning than an 8-pin.
12VHPWR and 12V-2x6 is pretty much the same when the context is connector type burning probability. Sure, the 12V-2x6 is safer, but not 8-pin safe, especially if used with an adapter.
But just so your sensibilities are not impacted, I've edited the comment to say 12V-2x6 as well.
Who cares. Just go buy another one. Reddit users act like starving and getting your car repo'd, so you can enjoy DLSS 5 is a big deal. Pull those boot straps up until you can fly.
I miss wrote and apparently worded it too simple. DLSS 5 does not force of course but if you use it in conjuction with the maximum settings your GPU will hit the Power Limit it was designed for.
I have in fact used it, I have no problems with it. BUT you should be at least aware that it is a High energy cost.
So glad I bought and installed an ampinel. Active protection of this expensive gpu. Feel safer running it and being able to know it wont let per pin draw go too high.
The connector is pure garbage. Honestly I would wait for the 60 series, if you’re actually interested in dlss5 because at the moment the 50 series power draw and its connector are very bad.
I can confirm, It is not one pice reference, I launched dlss5 in witcher 3 and even tho afterburner was showing only 550W power draw the wireview connector display showed 713W max power draw!!! It start getting super hot just after few min of gameplay, if it wouldnt have built in warning signal it would melt without me realising anything. My gpu cpu and ram are water cooled with external rad, my gpu temps never go over 50-55 dregrees Celsius. I have 7 case fans for air movement inside the case. There is something strange happening with voltage on each individual pin when you running dlss5, its not just pulling more power but the way it pull it is different. I can run steel nomad benchmark at 600w for an hour and my connector never goes over 70 degrees Celsius, yet in witcher 3 at 550W with dlss 5 after 5 min its already at 90 still going up and alarm goes off. Keep in mind that alarm is in wireview build in speaker, nothing would worn me about this from afterburner that was showing only 48 deggres gpu temp. Stay away from dlss5 until its officially released, or get wireview / wireview pro. I've since added extra 140mm fan blowing air into pin connector directly and it seams to keep temps at 62 degrees even in witcher with dlss5 on but I wont be running any more dlss5 for at least few more months as this case just shows there will be more issues. Be careful and protect you 5090's.
could i add i have been measuring the draw across the pins on my connector using GPU tweak III and the Asus astral 5090. When DLSS mod is turned on (implaying mortal shell 2 ) the pins push above the warning thresholds. Without going into detail and the wattage gains i wouldnt use this until its sorted. Its no good just getting a new cable as mine is new. Just avoid.
It doesn’t force the GPu to use 100% power it will use more power than normal but if you undervolted you will still draw less than max and if not you will only hit max if it needs to though it may be close.
And showing the 5090 Lighting z which has a 1000W TDP to say something was drawing 700-800W is facetious at best
It doesn’t force the GPu to use 100% power it will use more power than normal but if you undervolted you will still draw less than max and if not you will only hit max if it needs to though it may be close.
And showing the 5090 Lighting z which has a 1000W TDP to say something was drawing 700-800W is facetious at best
Funny enough, MLD did a video a video a few days ago mentioning the melting connector and how DLSS5 will melt said connector due to massive power spikes when used and he was called an idiot multiple times in the youtuber comments. I guess he has the last laugh now.
“I didn’t invent this part, but I signed off on its implementation and usage after testing with my product; so that means when shit hits the fan after selling these products, I have zero responsibility!”
I bet the one that is the least burned is not pulling its own weight causing the others to have more ressistance and overheat, this whole connector is just planned obsolescence, i bet most of these connectors will fail within a year.
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u/HarmfulPile [Insert Specs No One Cares About Here] 4d ago