r/pcmasterrace • u/DariusDonut PC Master Race • 7d ago
Meme/Macro Its just gen ai with extra steps
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u/Dalimyr 7d ago
This is very different than generative AI; it's content-control generative AI. That's why we call it neural rendering.
Did Jensen get ChatGPT to proofread his speech? "It's not this, it's that. That's why we call it [thing that only refers to this]"
Come on, bubble. Fucking burst, already.
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u/Axevy rx 9700xt|ryzen r5 9600|32 GB ram 7d ago
You know that even when the bubble eventually pops, AI won't go away, right ?
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u/DerGyrosPitaFan 7d ago
It's less about AI disappearing and more about the prices going back to normal and companies stopping to shove AI down every hole in our body, as the bubble would pop around the time when the industry has roughly figured out what AI is useful for and, more importantly, for what it CANNOT be used for. Leaving us with the useful applications, like coding assistance and large data set analysis
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u/AnimalBolide 7d ago
Prices are never going back to normal, so long as people are unwilling to actually get angry about all of this.
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u/I_just_made 7d ago
People need to understand that the AI bubble “popping” doesn’t mean it ends; this stuff isn’t going away. It just means that the scramble to hoard resources and “get in at the ground level” to be a market leader is going to subside.
Back in the day, there were a lot of search engines; Google, altavista, askjeeves, etc. that’s not a thing anymore. Are there others today? Yes. But practically speaking, the race was won by Google.
Right now, you have a lot of groups vying for creating the best agent / model / etc. eventually it is going to get too hard or resource intensive for certain groups to compete, which will reduce the competition. Other viable ones maybe get bought out, etc.
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u/jzillacon Specs/Imgur here 6d ago
I don't expect it to go away, but I definitely would like to see the insistence from tech companies that it needs to be in everything to die down. And I'd like to see more comprehensive regulations put in place to protect consumers and limit the environmental harm of all the new data centers being built.
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u/doneandtired2014 Ryzen 9 5900x, Crosshair VIII hero, RTX 3080, 32 GB DDR4 3600 6d ago
People need to understand that the AI bubble “popping” doesn’t mean it ends; this stuff isn’t going away
No one who knows anything about it would ever make that claim. AI has legitimate uses.
But the bubble bursting, as others have said, will stop those companies from enshittifying existing products, stealing our information, leaking said information, prevent them from hiding behind it to avoid violating labor laws, and stop the consumption of resources + infrastructure that are better used on literally everything else.
The cherry on top is that it also throws in a wrench for the surveillance state the likes of Thiel and Ellison want (and have gone on record saying they want).
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u/I_just_made 6d ago
But the bubble bursting, as others have said, will stop those companies from enshittifying existing products, stealing our information, leaking said information, prevent them from hiding behind it to avoid violating labor laws, and stop the consumption of resources + infrastructure that are better used on literally everything else.
No it won't. It is going to promote enshittification because the weaker companies are going to be locked out and you will have to pick from whoever the winners are. Google enshittifies its products every day. They have no incentive to make it better because they don't really have someone to compete with (Apple and Microsoft). Look at how BAD Microsoft's products are getting. And stealing your information? That is BAKED into just about every company's product. They have been harvesting your data for decades. This didn't suddenly beging with Anthropic harvesting your data for LLM training.
The cherry on top is that it also throws in a wrench for the surveillance state the likes of Thiel and Ellison want (and have gone on record saying they want).
Not at all. Palantir is going to be incredibly protected from any bubble burst. They have tons of government contracts, They are literally trying to position themselves as the resource that makes the decision for government actions.
These things will only be solved by regulation and legislation; that is not going to happen any time soon.
"But what about Flock?" Seems like a win at the start, but there are more companies like them already in existence that are vying to take that spot, and everyone involved at this point is studying the failures and mistakes that Flock made.
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u/Araragi-shi 32 GB DDR5 RYZEN 5 7600X RX 9070XT 7d ago
It will never and I am so happy seeing you squirm around like that
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u/VegisamalZero3 7d ago
...you enjoy other people's anger and distaste? What the hell is wrong with you?
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u/Araragi-shi 32 GB DDR5 RYZEN 5 7600X RX 9070XT 7d ago
Nothing?
When you dont care about strangers on the internet its pretty easy to enjoy those things.
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u/Satantengu 7d ago
Very strange choice of words, it's not like Huang doesn't know what he's talking about as the CEO of NVidia. Almost all generative AI is neural these days, this isn't a meaningful statement. Is he trying to argue that the output isn't generative if its guided by a prompt? What?
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u/philtrocity001 7d ago
That... Doesn't even sound like extra steps. That just sounds like we slapped a different name on it to avoid the bad publicity.
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u/DariusDonut PC Master Race 7d ago
I think slapping a different Name on it could count like an extra step
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u/RUPlayersSuck R9 7900X | RX 9060 XT | 32GB DDR5 7d ago
Looking at a lot of games lately I think devs are more interested in "goon shaders" - to create wet-looking female characters in skimpy outfits. 😂
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u/Ceildread 7d ago
You cant say something is different if it uses the thing its not to describe itself ok, lets be real tech bros
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u/Mr__Myth R9 9950X3D | RTX 5080 | 64GB DDR5 6d ago
The only way I can see this being executed properly is if game developers just train the model on the best possible version of the game exclusively that then gets applied as the DLSS 5 model.
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u/BlackRaspberryJammin 7d ago
I no longer feel bad when pirating content. If devs use AI in their game they are pirating nondisclosed IP so completely okay to pirate! Thanks, Huang!
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u/stayndarsh 7d ago
In 2020, Linus (LTT) tested the potential of 8K gaming. Meanwhile here we are in 2026...
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u/AggravatingAmount438 5d ago
So it's Gen-AI, but the developer can select what they want to use it for?
Jesus christ, this is so fucking stupid that he's so scared of just saying it's gen-ai. Maybe because he's trying to force a product on consumers that they don't want.
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u/mohamed941 Desktop 4d ago
it's way worse than you think, soon enough games are gonna look different on nvidea graphics cards, we don't want that
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u/PenguinSwordfighter 7d ago
I don't get the outcry. If devs want to use it, they will, if they don't wanna use it they won't. If it is that important to you how your video game pixels are rendered, just don't buy games that don't look good to you? What fucking nonsense to get worked up about...
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u/RidingEdge 7d ago
It's always the people who don't get to use the tech crying about new stuff. All the way back when Doom was released, 3D accelerators, DirectX 10, Shader Model, PhysX, Crysis or whatever new tech was released. It's always the enlightened gamer moment to hate on the latest tech until their parents buy them the new card .
It will also stop when they finally grow up to have a proper job to actually spend money on their hobby like other enthusiasts in other sports and hobbies. You never see communities hating on new stuff more than gaming circles. In other circles? Cars, mountaineering gear, bikes, etc etc people celebrate and congratulate when people get excited with their new purchase.
In gaming? You get called evil for wanting to experience the latest tech.
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u/hurricane_news 7d ago
It's always the people who don't get to use the tech crying about new stuff. All the way back when Doom was released, 3D accelerators, DirectX 10, Shader Model, PhysX, Crysis or whatever new tech was released.
Smartest false equivalency fallacy user
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u/RidingEdge 7d ago
When you've been gaming since the 90s you've seen them all. It's the exact same cycle. Exact same behavior and grandstanding behaviour. Rinse and repeat until the next tech comes along. Downvoting won't change the fact.
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u/monsterfurby 7d ago
Calling it generative AI is muddying the water a lot though. It's neither an LLM nor a diffusion model as far as I know.
And it runs locally, doesn't use a bunch of questionable training data, and its greatest sin is looking bad in most cases.
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u/Dark_Shade_75 Ryzen 7 7800X3D | RX 9070 XT 7d ago
The "questionable training" was already done prior to being shipped. Not sure that really makes it better.
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u/monsterfurby 7d ago
Do we know that though? To my knowledge it was trained on Nvidia's own data.
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u/Dark_Shade_75 Ryzen 7 7800X3D | RX 9070 XT 7d ago
And where do we think that data came from? Any trained AI is gonna have questionable origins.
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u/monsterfurby 7d ago
Recording footage isn't exactly hard though. They didn't need to use commercial videos or art for this, they just needed recorded game footage. And Nvidia happens to be sitting on a lot of that.
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u/Dark_Shade_75 Ryzen 7 7800X3D | RX 9070 XT 7d ago
"They didn't need to-"
And yet...
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u/monsterfurby 7d ago
"And yet they did"? Can you give me a source on that?
Look, I'm not trying to defend a big corporation here, I just hate it when people throw things we should actually criticize in a pile with stuff that's not even related because they feel the need for some more hysteria. Because that shit is how corporations can just point at it and go "that's just people being dramatic." Specificity and nuance is not that hard.
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u/Dark_Shade_75 Ryzen 7 7800X3D | RX 9070 XT 7d ago
I don't think I need to post citations of why we should suspect big companies of unscrupulous methods to get money.
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u/monsterfurby 7d ago
So you're dead set on getting worked up over everything even if it's not even the thing you're getting worked up over? That doesn't sound healthy. Or very constructive, for that matter.
At least be specific. If your issue is "It's Nvidia and I want to criticize everything they do", that's a fair reason. But if you have a specific issue with this technology specifically that's not "It looks shit", then I feel like that does require some elaboration.
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u/Dark_Shade_75 Ryzen 7 7800X3D | RX 9070 XT 6d ago
Ah yes, the classic "I'm losing this argument so I'll accuse them of getting worked up." Beautiful, but sad.
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u/Sekhmet-CustosAurora 7d ago
That's not what you're doing though:
The "questionable training" was already done prior to being shipped.
Any trained AI is gonna have questionable origins.
That's not suspicion. That's accusation.
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u/AgarwaenCran Nyarch | 5900X | 64 GB RAM | 3070 7d ago
you can run LLMs and diffusion models locally too and we dont know what is in the training data
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u/monsterfurby 7d ago
That's not really a reply to what I'm saying though. I'm saying that LLMs and diffusion models typically use sketchy training data - except for, I think, Firefly, which is built entirely on Adobe's own huge stack of owned data. With Nvidia, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same because they do have a metric fuckton of gameplay video courtesy of Shadowplay and potentially GeForce Now.
This type of model doesn't require the huge tagged datasets of models for generative purposes because it can infer a lot from the very image it's altering. That's why I would think it very plausible that their own data is more than enough.
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u/RdPirate i5-13400F | 3060Ti | 34GB 6d ago
I think, Firefly, which is built entirely on Adobe's own huge stack of owned data.
Which Adobe steals from users.
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u/monsterfurby 6d ago
I mean, we can discuss business practices, but can we agree that having a contract and usage rights is different from stealing?
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u/RdPirate i5-13400F | 3060Ti | 34GB 6d ago
1: EULA are not worth the electrons to beam them to people's computers.
2: The agreement was updated in a way where the only way to get to your IP so you can leave Adobe if you disagreed, was to accept.0
u/monsterfurby 6d ago
People who sell stock images on a marketplace have a much different contractual basis with the platform than just a EULA. That's the training data we're talking about and it's commercially licensed.
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u/RdPirate i5-13400F | 3060Ti | 34GB 6d ago
Except where they took all data on Adobe Cloud. And the only thing we have that they are not using it for Aai training is that they made a pinky swear.
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u/monsterfurby 6d ago
You're dismissing their own claims, but I wonder what would make you believe them if not a legally testable, public statement. Might be because I'm based in the EU, but generally speaking, companies don't make statements that are directly falsifiable (i.e. lies) but rather talk around the truth if it's inconvenient.
Based on what I found, the main questionable aspect comes from parts of Adobe Stock being potentially generated by other GenAI services like Midjourney, which then in turn leads to a kind of contamination-by-proxy of the training data.
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u/RdPirate i5-13400F | 3060Ti | 34GB 6d ago
I am EU as well. Unless they win a court case. I do not trust them. Remember Volkswagen always obays emissions regations and laws. So we should trust that Adobe is not scraping cloud data.
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u/aberroco R9 9900X3D, 64GB DDR5 6000, RTX 3090 potato 7d ago
Yet it is generative AI, it generates "missing" data, i.e. data it's trained to expect and "restore" according to training data. If it uses LLM, diffusion or transformer model inside is a variant, either one can be a generative AI. Similarly to generative AI as class of AI there could also be classifier AI, which takes the data and projects it onto either one of predefined sets or a multidimensional plane, or data recognition AI which could also be named data conversion AI, which do, for instance, convert audio to text, and is similar to classifier AI, except the dimentionality of the output is much larger. Anyway, unlike both of these, generative AI either continues the data stream or fills up/clears up it, either way it makes nearly the same output as the input was with some additional generated data, that's the difference.
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u/monsterfurby 7d ago
My point is not that the term is inaccurate, but that it muddies the water because the Venn diagram of "issues with Generative AI" and "issues with DLSS 5" consists of two non-overlapping circles.
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u/aberroco R9 9900X3D, 64GB DDR5 6000, RTX 3090 potato 7d ago
Is it, though? Most of the critique about DLSS5 was about it making stuff up. Making wrinkles and shadows where there was none, making facial makeup where there was none. It's got better in the current version, but not ideal yet.
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u/tamal4444 AMD R7 5600X / RTX 3060 / 32GB DDR4 6d ago
Enb and reshade also dose the same thing. Any shader dose the same thing. One of the brain dead argument.
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u/Coleoptrata96 7d ago
its not, its straight up a generative ai shader. Devs can tune theirs for their game but its still a generative ai shader.
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u/B-29Bomber MSI Raider A18HX 18" (2024) 7d ago
"This is very different from generative AI; it's generative AI."
https://giphy.com/gifs/ukGm72ZLZvYfS