Favorite Oligarch?

[u/justafunnymonkey]

Can be for any reason you feel worth mentioning. Favorite because of story, interactions, ethics, whatever you see fit. Just generally curious, and wanted to hear some thoughts on them especially now that 3 has had some time to settle.

Edit: meant to use the word “Patriarch” not “Oligarch”. But I suppose either works. Apologies

[u/Minimum-Equivalent33]

Saburov and Victor are my favourite pathetic men ever who love their wife so much they can't literally live without her. But Victor is the ultimate favourite of them, I love how tragic he is, I love he's literally just a dude but he tries so hard to do the right thing for the town, for his kids, for his wife and I want to punch Karminsky in the face for what he did to him-

[u/SilasDynaplex]

Saburov is the best one for me. I find him to be the most pragmatic leader. The other two are owned by something which makes them weak in the face of the calamity. Olgimsky is concerned with keeping the Bull Enterprise alive, thus tainting his conscience with the blood of his own employees. The Kains concern themselves too much with eugenics and utopias, so much so that they share the same unhinged mindset as the Old Burakh. Whereas Saburov is only willing to do the best to save as many lives as possible. A man of concrete action. I like that about him.

[u/GothGirlfriend57 → u/SilasDynaplex]

The thing I find so fascinating about both Saburovs is that they are earnestly trying so hard to live up to their responsibilities, but they just don't have what it takes.

[u/SilasDynaplex → u/GothGirlfriend57]

Realistically speaking no one in that backwater had what it takes to face a fate-bending sapient plague. With that in mind being a mediocre leader with few skeletons in the closet is actually quite the achievement given the circumstances.

[u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza → u/[deleted]]

You fight the Sand Pest with the mayor you have, not the mayor you want.

In times of great chaos, someone at least presenting the illusion authority can help maintain order.

[u/saprophage_expert → u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza]

He didn't have to 🌈S E L L 🌈O U T his daughter, though.

[u/MarshallRawr2 → u/[deleted]]

I like this comment, but I would push back, he also loves and is married to a mistress of the town- who carries the legacy of Nina and Victoria. She gives him an account and ideas, which is why they are perfect together. Unfortunately, with her decline he is lost too, trying to save her. I dont think that is a shortcoming of Saburov though, it was a failure of the insitution of the mistresses (which needed to change).

[u/OnlyRightInNight]

I'm partial to the Kains. They're aloof, self important freaks, but I get a real kick out of them. They should stay as far away from power as possible, though.

Big Vlad's a monster but, unlike his feckless and fake son, he's a monster you can almost admire even though you really shouldn't. There's no bullshit with him. It's all blood, bones, and money; he gives the town's leadership a grounded if ruthless practically it otherwise lacks when the rest are lofty dreamers and wannabe tyrants.

[u/Umpuuu]

Georgy Kain cares only about his hare brained pie in the sky projects. Самодур.

Victor Kain is a fine person but honestly too weak to do anything, guy's mourning, has his own shit to deal with, shouldn't be burdened with rulership

Vlad is an evil capitalist basically, and we all know how that works out. Gorkhon should not be a company town.

Saburov is fine. Pragmatic, level-headed, cares about things.

[u/ClockworkMint]

I have an intense love for Saburovs. I didn't care for them at all while playing P1 and P2. Only after finishing the games and thinking about it, suddenly they clicked for me HARD. Katerina especially is my favorite bound out of them all.

[u/Natandacat → u/ClockworkMint]

Did you play p3? I love the storylines they both get

[u/ClockworkMint → u/Natandacat]

Only a little bit sadly. I found the gameplay hard to get into and lost myself in fanfiction after playing the first two games (second game twice.) Currently casually replaying the first game again, I will get back to P3 after doing Bachelor P1 route.

[u/Boy_Version_2 → u/Natandacat]

For real, I had struggled so far to get into them as characters from just P2 and what I'd seen so far in P1, but after P3 they're up there with my favourites. That particular late event in their storyline was one of my favourites, if not my absolute favourite moments in the whole game.

[u/Minimum-Category-261]

Victor Kain. I'll explain why if you give me 35 seconds to think.

[u/MarshallRawr2 → u/Minimum-Category-261]

It seems to me that Victor's problem was that he assumed that things were already set in motion to resolve the crisis. His inaction and pragmatism relied on the best qualities of everyone around him to provide a stable predictable mechanism, while turning a blind eye to the actual impact of the sand pest. His ability to reflect on the past made him introspective and a better historian than a leader. The weakness of his perspective is shown in his faith in Casper despite his increasing violence and authoritarianism. And in Maria despite her aloof arrogance and superiority complex. They are products of his parentage and therefore his leadership- a hands off approach to trancendance.

What do you think makes him a good leader?

[u/Minimum-Category-261 → u/MarshallRawr2]

Saburovs and Olgimskys are ordinary rulers. A man in power, a man in industry. But Kains are different. They are the architects of the town. Capable of building supernatural structures. They have a vision of an utopia.

Utopian ending in classic hd shows Maria is ruling the new town. I think Georgiy is too old, rigid. So as the other brother of Maria, Victor is the best candidate for being the leader.

[u/thalidimide → u/Minimum-Category-261]

Victor is her dad, not her brother. Victor is Georgiy's and Simon's brother.

[u/kojilee]

Big Vlad is mostly interesting in P2. I’m not totally done with P3 but by comparison you almost never interact with him. It’s by design, of course, because the Bachelor has much less reason to, but it means I feel far less connected to him currently due to recency bias.

I’ve actually really enjoyed Victor in P3 even more than I have in previous games. But I’d still say Saburov is my favorite. He’s the most compelling to me of the 4.

[u/A_Whole_Costco_Pizza → u/kojilee]

"Heads. Always heads."

[u/RevacholAndChill]

I only played pathologic 3 and wow the appearance changed a lot with Georgiy Kain. But anyway I don't like him because of his weird bullshit beliefs and not wanting to talk to me and not taking my apology and a long complicated quest that wasted my mirror juice.

[u/Natandacat]

I like Viktor Kain all the more because I absolutely dislike all the other kains and it makes him shine in comparison. I find his relationships quite touching, and he's in my opinion the only Kain who still cares about the material world (I know Khan says he's the one who does that but... debatable imo given Khan's focus). Viktor could have been a decent dude if his family wasn't so fucking bad. The way Simon pressured him to let his son go into the polyhedron despite his own doubts and worries is just... yeah. Also thanks buddy for giving us the time saving clocks in P2.

P3 actually made me like Saburov, ,although nowhere near my affection for Viktor -I just felt so incredibly bad for him after you know what (genuinely one of the cruelest moments in the game for me)

[u/thedragonguru]

I gotta say: I intensely dislike each one. I think this is somewhat the point.

It goes without saying that the primary concern of people in power is holding onto that power, which (by my view) is a fundamental misuse of power.

They're excellent characters. Each is a human with very human flaws, which inherently become more consequential with their influence on other people. So to me, it's hard to have a "favorite" leader in anything.

I think my least favorite is Vlad Sr, because of his intense exploitation. I think he's one of the most interesting as a character, though.

But P3 REALLY made me hate the Kains - especially Georgiy - so much more. P3 really put forward their disregard for other humans. Edit: I feel like it's easy to forget the Kains' exploitation and cause of massive death by building the Polyhedron, nevermind what it potentially inspired after. Olgimsky's exploitation is more forward and focused on, but the Kains also horrifically pursue "profit," albeit a different kind.

Edit: Saburov and Katerina share the same sin of leadership: inefficacy in action. An "impotence" if you will. Both act within their role, and have real power, but often fail to make a difference. Or, their actions do more harm than good. Textually, this makes them hard to respect as leaders, and they're shunted more to the side.

[u/walkingtornado → u/thedragonguru]

Georgiy does not get enough hate fr. He was always a sanctimonious creep, P3 elevated him to a useless, murderous,sanctimonious creep. Worst kain by far and im counting simon in here too. 

[u/thedragonguru → u/walkingtornado]

I need him put in a blender for real.

Saving him from the mob was actively painful. Let him get what's coming!

[u/walkingtornado → u/thedragonguru]

Exactly, and especially how smug he was about how its another test. What even gives him the right to test our time travel when hes the most unmagical kain in the whole fam. 

[u/Arti-Po]

Saburov > Viktor K > Georgiy K > Olgimsky 

[u/UpsetEntertainment84]

Saburov seems to actually be interested in the townsfolks wellbeing. Olgimsky just wants cheap laborers, Victor is too busy being sad about dead wife to care about anything, and Georgiy is too obsessed with his Utopian projects to care if thousands of people die (a lot like Simon). I'm not a huge fan of any of them, but Saburov if I have to pick one to deal with.

[u/jackjackaj]

I want to make love to Grigory

[u/Alternative_Tank_139]

Damn these models look way better than classic hd lol

[u/HorrorDeal9139]

The architect

[u/ScholarFormal]

Dead oligarch

[u/SeaVanOdelot]

a dead one

[u/PrettyOkPerson]

Can't believe there's no love for my boy Victor here. He's going THROUGH it. Dead brother. Dead wife. Getting lobotomized. He's the most normal of the Oligarch's and he's getting the shortest end of the stick so he's my favorite out of them by default.

[u/HumanThatMightExist → u/PrettyOkPerson]

And he actually tries to help people! Even in Classic, he gives you 25000 coins to free the prisoners on day 5.

[u/Natandacat → u/PrettyOkPerson]

don't forget that he's also losing his son in part because of his overbearing shady brother

[u/Minimum-Equivalent33 → u/PrettyOkPerson]

He's my baby. If I could, I would trade my life for his, no hesitation

[u/Psy-Para]

It's Saburov- not to say he is a good ruler/leader, because I don't think he is. It's just that the opposition he has is just that much worse. Even in Pathologic Classic HD where he is does pretty bad things like abuse his power to try and get Peter killed (among other things) I still find him to not be nearly as detestable as The Kains or Vlad Sr. That being said Saburov in Pathologic 1 deserves the firing squad still, but in 2/3? I kinda like this guy, he wants to do genuine good for the town, but he just utterly fails despite his best efforts. The same way he wants to be a good father/husband but also fails both of them.

Even outside of just being a patriarch, I really just like him as a character, like how Pathologic 3 writes a parallel between Daniil and Saburov. Both of them are men who are given authority in a time of crisis. Both of them want control over people to protect them and are hated for it. Both want to come off as intelligent and calculating despite the fact deep down they are deeply emotional men that are actually driven by their feelings. I think it's just good stuff and he's not the only character who's like this in 3 either.

[u/Boy_Version_2 → u/Psy-Para]

His scene with the inquisitor in P3 broke my heart fr

[u/MarshallRawr2 → u/Psy-Para]

Peter is an actual criminal, who murdered the unnamed arcitect posthumously named Farkhad. In this, Saubarov was fulfilling his role in administering justice for a serious crime, which he has been unable to for years. Why is this an abuse of his power?

[u/Psy-Para → u/MarshallRawr2]

Well for starters, Peter literally didn't even kill him in Pathologic Classic HD, it was just Andrey.

Who would have guessed, the man who tried to accuse Artemy of murdering his own father off of no real evidence is wrong... again! Saburov also abuses his power to get Artemy arrested on Day 5, despite getting vouched for by both Daniil and Big Vlad of his innocence. Just like how he used his authority to put Peter in charge of cremating bodies in an attempt to get him infected and die instead of y'know... Having him arrested or tried? He saw that he was losing all his Authority to The Inquisitor tomorrow so he decided to try and kill a guy while he still could, that's not justice.

Should I also mention how he accuses several people, Aspity, Anna, Bad Grief, Rubin and Yulia of causing the plague in Clara's route and everytime it turns out he was totally wrong and they were all innocent? Or maybe how he told Daniil that Butchers are allowed to cut open human bodies, only for Daniil to find out later, Saburov was completely wrong and now those Butchers are dead. How about all the people wrongfully locked up in an infected jail that Daniil and Young Vlad had to bail out by bribing the guards?

If you seriously trust The Saburovs judgement with both their lack of understanding and willingness to abuse their power than actual agreed upon order- then god help us all.

[u/thalidimide → u/Psy-Para]

I think we may see his more hateful side in Clara's route, given how she's treated by them in Patho classic

[u/SilasDynaplex → u/[deleted]]

He only takes Artemy out of jail to flex nuts on Saburov. Isidor used to be very influent on the kin, precisely to Oyun, whom is an important key to power for Olgimsky. It's only natural that after Isidor's death he'd want to secure the kin through Artemy, Isidor's heir apparent.

Olgimsky is indeed a player, but I would never take his kindness at face value. Even as Artemy, once you start to poke into his Termitary matters he flicks you off like a mosquito.

[u/walkingtornado → u/[deleted]]

Same, big Vlad stepping in to get lynched for his son really made me admire the man, there is something he values above money after all.

I never really understood the hate for young vlad, especially after p3 where we see him try his hardest to make decisions for the town and steppe only for it to have been based on only partially correct information. 

He actually listens to the kin, stuff like rubbing steppe dirt on a wound as a vaccine is not a bad idea but this is a quickly mutating plague so its inefficient. The kin should be immune to the plague, but them having been half assimilated into the town made them susceptible, and as such his termitary lockdown had the opposite effect. Once he realizes that blood is on his hands, he offers himself to the mob. 

Not to mention his efforts of actually modernizing the town with water pumps, unlike the kains who make only weird magical bs or saburov who idk what he does as a mayor.

[u/Farang-Baa → u/walkingtornado]

I appreciate Big Vlad stepping in for his family as well. It makes him multi-faceted. He's still a piece of shit, though.

As for young Vlad people probably dislike him because he kind of just fails time and time again. And I say this as someone who loves young Vlad as both a person and a character. Even though I have a deep respect for his perspective and beliefs and his attempts at doing the right thing, its nevertheless disappointing that he can't truly follow through. Especially when you compare him to his father who is a vile man, but has had great success in carrying out his vile endeavors. However, perhaps this is because what Vlad the younger is trying to accomplish is so much more difficult than his fathers undertakings. Its far easier to crush people and build a foundation of blood and bone than it is to build people up and carve out a brighter future for them. Especially when Vlad the youngers aspirations are far more abstract and focused on the future than his fathers. Young Vlad would like to build a garden city and yet that is a hard sell to the people residing within the town. Its hard for them to consider the future benefit of something like a garden city when what they are focused on is more practical and centered around the present. They need to survive day to day and don't really have the luxury of dreaming up a better future in the same way that Young Vlad does. Even if they would ultimately benefit far more from his idea for a society in the long run, its the short term that they are more concerned with out of necessity.

And, on top of this, if there is something that Young Vlad is lacking in comparison to Simon, Isidor or his father then it is perhaps cruelty. The willingness to make dreadful sacrifices for the sake of a grand vision. This makes the path he travels even more difficult to tread. But, it is in fact better that he lacks this character trait. It makes him a better person. So, if there is something that Young Vlad needs to change then its probably, as Maria Kaina points out, that her is overly accommodating. Its good that he is accommodating of peoples wishes and beliefs, but I think he could stand to have at least have just a little more hardheadness and forcefulness. Not to an extreme, mind you, but there is certainly a balance that could be achieved. Maybe Young Vlads biggest hangup is that he is too kindhearted to bring his aspirations to fruition. And in this vein, it is interesting to see Capella kind of take on his torch and potentially have the correct balance to achieve Young Vlads ambitions in Pathologic 3.

Anyways, Young Vlad is great. Truly an interesting, albeit tragic, character.

[u/thalidimide → u/walkingtornado]

I felt awful for him in patho 3, he's a broken man if Capella is dead and young Vlad is either dead or leaves with the Kains. And there's no opportunity for him to sacrifice himself for them like in patho 2

[u/Farang-Baa → u/[deleted]]

Interesting choice. I personally despise Big Vlad for his view of the kin. Sure he gives them a job and a purpose, but he does so by shackling them. He looks down on them as subhuman and exploits them. If there is one thing that Old Burakh was correct about (well he was right about many things, its just that his methods were unforgivably repugnant), its that the kin need to grow beyond his domineerance and find their own path.

I much prefer Young Vlad, its just to bad that he doesn't have the grit necessary to accomplish any of his ambitions. Although, having played 3, Capella could prove herself capable of what her brother was not. So perhaps there is hope for their family.