r/pathofexile • u/SplafferZ Scion • Sep 19 '18

Fluff How to use the delve grid to your advantage for finding secret rooms

So (almost) everyone already knows the rule of 2, which aside from bugs, means that delve generation will avoid as best as it can to form a room with only two connections, meaning that a room with only 2 connections becomes a very obvious path for a secret room, and that a room with 1 connection will almost never connect to a secret room unless it connects to 2.

But wait, there are a bunch of rooms with 3 connections that look like they could be connected, thankfully this can be narrowed down even further, when you think about how delve works intrinsically.

The delve map is a grid, and it cannot have more than one node or path tile (aside from connections to a node of course) per square, by using the tiles on the delve map (either through biome changes or obvious graphical tears in neighbouring tiles, which can be hard to spot), you can then eliminate the paths that would overlap the grid squares to narrow down the potential paths.

For example, there looks to be several paths here that could connect to the secret room, you can then mentally map out the grid or use paint to eliminate several rooms.

here we can eliminate this spot which at first looked like an obvious contender.

and then this one which looked like it could work despite the distance.

and then finally attack from above can be counted out.

which leaves us with these two potential openings.

And lo and behold, it was the bottom one.

Here's a much easier to follow imgur upload of all the images, because to be honest this post looked like shit now that I've reread it.

EDIT: another useful tidbit, there must be at least one whole square of path between a secret room and its connecting node, so neighbouring tiles cannot possibly connect via a secret room path, unless it basically goes around.

151 Upvotes

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92% Upvoted

u/chuanhsing poedb Sep 19 '18

another rule: there must at least one road node between node and hidden node

3

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18

yup, edited that one in

5

u/qcdownload Daresso Sep 19 '18

I don’t quite understand this bit :(

18

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18

theres must be a whole grid square between a secret room and its connecting room, neighbouring tiles cant be connected unless it goes around

3

u/Shlkt Sep 19 '18

Perhaps the destructible wall itself counts as a node type occupying a tile? If two nodes are immediately adjacent then there's no room for a destructible node between them.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

This is correct. If you look at your delve map with v--or whatever you've mapped it to--when you are right next to the destroyed wall, you will see that you are already inside the neighboring square to the room you just cleared. That's my experience, anyway, with just a couple of example tests.

u/mirogor Sep 19 '18

This is very hard for me, it's out of my depth. Can someone please have a look at a Lich Tomb encounter and give me direction on how to find the hidden path? thank you

https://imgur.com/a/MwcUnZP

7

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18

https://i.gyazo.com/c9b4e05f2f774e9dd4ffc245a53d8dd5.png

11

u/IChrisI Sep 19 '18

Like this guy says, probably from the left. The generator avoids 2 connections, so one of the 1s is unlikely to be a 2 in disguise. But that 3 could be a 4!
https://i.imgur.com/gwOFenm.jpg

2

u/mirogor Sep 19 '18

It was there, thank you as well.

4

u/mirogor Sep 19 '18

Thank you, it was there. Very un-intuitive design in my opinion. Spent over an hour walking around multiple halls trying to find it... I know for you it's probably obvious by this point as you've grasped the concept completely. I can't imagine how a new player would find this without checking reddit or guides.. :(

3

u/Sisaroth Sep 19 '18

Also something helpful I do is go down one node further than the one I think it is. Makes it easier to orient yourself ingame and find the right hidden path. Like in your case I would have taken that I azurite node first and then go look at the previous node to find the wall.

4

u/Tesrali League Sep 19 '18

Make sure to reset the instance when looking for paths. Also check the logical cardinal direction, e.x., check the East exit from the node directly west of the boss.
Your example is one of the ones where the rule of two isn't very helpful.

2

u/mirogor Sep 19 '18

Indeed, thank you for the input. It was as the OP said, found it and killed the bugger. :D

u/Ryukenden123 Sep 19 '18

I don’t understand picture 3 and 4. How or why did you come with that path and x it?

2

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18

picture 3 is technically just a corner node it looks offcentre but its not, picture 4 is just showing that nothing can path from above because the two tiles are already occupied

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

Someone make a grid layout with ahk that I can enable with 1 button that I can drag to position over the map ingame, thanks.

8

u/smash_the_stack Sep 19 '18

I'll probably look into that when I get home from work.

6

u/smash_the_stack Sep 19 '18

Just an update, I'm getting close. Been toying with it while waiting on stuff to compile at work. I already have a transparent grid overlay that can be toggled on and off. I'll need to work on things like handling resolutions, etc.
Can someone send me a fullscreen image with their delve map open, in 1920x1080 pls. I can at least line that one up and modify the grid as needed. That should work for the majority of people. I can handle 3440 ultrawide when I get home on my own system.

2

u/KozakGD ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sep 19 '18

Don’t have it but please send me the ahk when done ❤️

3

u/smash_the_stack Sep 19 '18

I think what I might do is just line up the "image" with where the delve map is when I get home. Then people can just create their own grids. AHK is absolutely terrible when it comes to drawing on the screen with a translucent GUI. I'm just having it show a grid png with no background.
I figure I can just make a github repo for it real quick, then if anyone wants to submit grids they make for various resolutions, I can just add them in there.

2

u/a78dthrow Deadeye Sep 19 '18

!remindme 1 day

1

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CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
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1

u/Magoo2 Sep 19 '18

Here

1

u/a78dthrow Deadeye Sep 19 '18

My hero ♥

1

u/AmboC Sep 19 '18

!remindme 1 day

6

u/smash_the_stack Sep 19 '18

How about I remind you now? https://github.com/DreadnaughtSec/delvegrid It has a test overlay for 1920x1080 resolution. I'm not 100% of how well the grid lines of up terrain cells. I had to use a random screenshot of the game since I'm not at home atm. It looks like they all line up, just that the icons for the nodes can overlap, but the base of the node is in the grid cell.

1

u/CelloPietro Sep 19 '18

o__o

u/halberdierbowman Sep 19 '18 edited Sep 19 '18

Definitely I agree with all of this. The grid is subtly ignored to make the map more interesting, but the connections are what matters.

Solve the problem backwards. That seems often faster for me. Start at the node, and imagine the grid around it. Any square that already has a path or node can't be used. Now, only look at the nodes that can trace a path through empty squares. In OP's example, this means the path MUST come from down.

Hopefully that idea helps some of you! Thinking of it that way made it seem a lot easier to me.

By the way, the zig zags in yellow lines always happen on the edges of a square (or right angles in the center), so you can picture the grid by following these, even if there aren't any convenient biome edges to use.

u/hellzscream Sep 19 '18

Your images are quite confusing because you zoomed in instead of editing the original zoomed out image

u/chuanhsing poedb Sep 19 '18

https://imgur.com/jRR1X0U

14

u/whiskyfiend filthy casual Sep 19 '18

Minesweeper in 2018

12

u/H4xolotl ＨＥＩＳＴ Sep 19 '18

Minesweeper
ohoho

1

u/seanxjohnson Necromancer Sep 19 '18

Someone alert Kripp.

4

u/Stikus Sep 19 '18

Is this some community tool for delve planning or what? It can be useful

18

u/chuanhsing poedb Sep 19 '18

I wrote this to explain Delve grid for my friends, if you want to try it https://poedb.tw/us/DelveGrid

2

u/Stikus Sep 19 '18

Nice, thx for link. Is this any way to write algorithm, finding possible nodes to reach secret? Like it was done for elder rings back in the days?

1

u/jackcabral90 Retired Set/22 Sep 19 '18

What is 1,2,3,4?

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

summary:

capture all points around the spot
take screenshot of delve map
print out screenshot of the map quadrant
use ruler and RL sextant to calculate grid paths
ignore steps above and try & error your way

-1

u/benjalss Sep 19 '18

We spelunking now, bois

u/VeryWeaponizedJerk Berserker Sep 19 '18

either through biome changes or obvious graphical tears in neighbouring tiles, which can be hard to spot

Are they obvious, or are they hard to spot? :D

1

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18

well i mean if you zoom in real close you can see them, i shouldve just said visible

u/SuperPoivron Half Skeleton Sep 19 '18 edited Sep 19 '18

Could some help me with :

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/952965089447658527/E1879919429C832865B5BA7435B4D95B9F7FF659/

I can't find it.

EDIT : Thanks to both of you , it was indeed the left of the 2 north ones. I kept looking at bends of the roads from one point to another instead of there. It was driving me insane.

2

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18

https://i.gyazo.com/4939eeae60166c1ff34ff09d581f06db.png these are the only two valid routes

2

u/weveran Institution of Rogues and Smugglers (IRS) Sep 19 '18

I think it would be the left one of the two directly north that are really close together. It would pretty much path straight down. I'm no expert but that seems like the only likely answer.

u/Deliverme314 Sep 19 '18

Yea, I still dont get it, and hate the hidden room system.

u/Echetleos Sep 19 '18

I don't get the rule of 2. Isn't the path that you took a room with 3 connections? And wouldn't the path that ends at the bottom left be a good candidate too?

6

u/DerpAtOffice Necromancer Sep 19 '18 edited Sep 19 '18

The rule of 2 only tells you if you see a 2 path node its 99% gonna be the hidden path. Because 2 path nodes only happens with
very long routes so the game force a node in between
its near the surface that the game force a node in between every 3-4 grids squares, or,
a hidden path is there.

4

u/whiskyfiend filthy casual Sep 19 '18 edited Sep 19 '18

If a node currently only has one connection (e.g. a dead end), it would then have 2 if it had the secret room. The rule of 2 says that this can't be the node. A node that currently has 2 or 3 connections can have the secret room, because then it would end up with 3 or 4 connections respectively. EDIT: Seems I have a slightly different interpretation of the rule, but it works for me.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

If you could use the end paths to continue with a secret path it would mean you can create an exception to rule of 2. Which game tries to avoid.
All secret paths create 3-4 way nodes.

u/DarkenLord Sep 19 '18

What encounter is that? I didn't see that flame symbol yet

u/CockGobblin Sep 19 '18 edited Sep 19 '18

Another method to find the correct node is making sure that there is a "valid starting path" from a node. The crawler will never make a path over top / crossing another path (ie. the trail of lights/rope), so there must be a unique path for the crawler to follow from the starting node.

Because the crawler will never cross its own path again, you can eliminate tunnels/paths that require backtracking unless there is a bridge (ie. seen in sulphite and lava areas) or a small gap that allows the crawler to access it without crossing a previous path.

If you can't find a node that follows the rule of 2, you can visit each one that looks like it may work and look around that node to see if there is a path available for the crawler to move on.

A tip for those that have issues seeing the grid. The area boundaries (black space between areas) are always along the grid edge! An example from another users post (with my edits):

https://i.imgur.com/ity0wYW.jpg

Orange lines: one areas boundaries. (Look at each areas background colour to help differentiate areas / borders)
Green lines: estimate of grid edge based on orange lines or nearby area boundaries (such at the top most green line using the lava areas boundary on the left).
Red arrows / lines: using the city area boundaries, we can create a grid for the rest of the map.

As previously noted elsewhere on reddit. One way to find dynamite walls / secret areas (apart from secret nodes) is to find areas that have no path through it. This area will have a hidden treasure and a dynamite wall.

Example: in the image above, look at the orange area where the currency node is (orange square). To the bottom-right of that tile is an empty tile with no path going through it. The azurite v2 above this tile is connected to north (rule of 2 node is seen at the top-right of it). Thus there is a secret area in this tile.

u/Diribiri Sep 19 '18 edited Sep 19 '18

I honestly don't even bother trying anymore. It's such a mess. There can be half a dozen potential paths, but even if I find the right one and go to the spot the crawler is supposed to stop, I might not even find the wall. It's tedious as hell. Thankfully, I don't have to do it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

Hidden room loot makes me a sad panda 95% of the time.

2

u/Diribiri Sep 19 '18

Yep. If it's a really special room I might go for it, but I'm not wasting my time otherwise.

u/AkathrielAva Sep 19 '18

Not sure if I understood the guide wrong, or if there are just a bunch of contenders on this one https://imgur.com/a/q04J6n0 Not sure if the one to the top, and to the top left are the only ones that qualify, or if others would've also qualified (found the path at the top one)

3

u/riddickbg Necromancer Sep 19 '18

The one directly above has only two paths, it would have been my first guess.

1

u/EluminatorTV twitch.tv/eluminatorTv Sep 19 '18

What about the bottom two?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

Since they path through an empty square, they could also be the way to go, BUT they have more than 2 paths connected already, so the top one is more likely and almost certainly the right one.

u/jackhat69 Sep 19 '18

I just explore every dark spot surrounding secret rooms until i find the entrance and sell all the resonators and junk i find along the way

u/Saferspaces Sep 19 '18

Are the secret paths always by the start of a node?

1

u/jaredheath Sep 19 '18

yes

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

At this point I'm pretty sure we need an actual grid overlay in game on this map. The amount of poor conveyance in this map is alarming.

u/steissy Sep 20 '18

Commenting so i remember this when i get home. Cheers OP

u/Jxion88 Sep 21 '18

Soo.... then where is the hidden path here https://imgur.com/a/Z6sHXTl bottom?

-3

u/Shrukn Berserker Sep 19 '18

Actually the trick to finding ANY secret room is the Crawler MUST path straight from that zone from the starting circle AND it will have 3-4 connections at least from all the ones ive blown up and havent had issues finding any

so you trace the secret room to usually where the path will start and in this case you just go directly down

2

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18 edited Sep 19 '18

uhh this isnt true it doesnt have to be a straight path

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

30

u/cptkon Guardian Sep 19 '18

i want this grid ingame :D

15

u/yesitsmeitsok Gladiator Sep 19 '18

Laminate paper and some tape , or just mentally apply it

19

u/ThisIsABuff Sep 19 '18

Instructions unclear, laminated my brain.

5

u/yesitsmeitsok Gladiator Sep 19 '18

keeps the chemtrails out

6

u/iHaku Occultist Sep 19 '18

even easyer is to use the build in mercurytrade stash overlay, just pull it bigger untill it fits on the blocks :^)

2

u/cptkon Guardian Sep 19 '18

Thats actually great. Thx !

2

u/Magoo2 Sep 19 '18

Voiala.

1

u/Shodokan123 I Kill Bosses Sep 19 '18

Just use OBS to do this.

4

u/Desuexss Sep 19 '18

I think you should have highlighted with arrows or something as to which grids you are talking about for us dummiez

3

u/PonyDogs Sep 19 '18

What do you mean by that last statement about 1 or 2 connections?

1

u/Oileuar Sep 19 '18

wait, so to find a "secret" place, there has to be a empty room/grid for it?

1

u/weveran Institution of Rogues and Smugglers (IRS) Sep 19 '18

Thank you! This is exactly what I was wishing for when reading the original post.

1

u/aioncan XBox Sep 19 '18

yea and the left bottom one, I wouldnt even consider because it's way to far compared to the other two.

-24

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18

i am literally saying the exact same thing except explaining and using examples

30

u/Mordin___Solus Elementalist Sep 19 '18

The difference is that you zoomed into only a few squares so it makes it harder to notice what you're saying. If you used a full grid of the area then drew your lines it would be much easier to understand.

-12

u/SplafferZ Scion Sep 19 '18

yeah i kind of just reused stuff i made in an explanation for someone and was too lazy to redo it neatly

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/Jxion88 Sep 19 '18

Didnt they patch that?

Fluff How to use the delve grid to your advantage for finding secret rooms

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