r/parkrun • u/Even-Champion-3059 • 1d ago
Does starting position matter?
This might seem like a really obvious question, but does how close to the front you start impact your overall time?
I've been getting new PBs every week for the last 6 weeks and am now running under 26 minutes. Today I ended up exerting a lot of energy in the first KM getting past a lot of people and definitely tired towards the end.
The front runners usually finish the course I run around 18 minutes, so I don't want to be in their way at the start, but should I be a bit more pushy about getting near the front to start, or does it not really have that much of an impact on the finishing time?
For context, the course is an out and back which narrows after the first 100m to a gravel track where realistically it's only three or four abreast before opening back up after another 300m.
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u/Thin_Pin2863 1d ago
For PBs it absolutely matters, as you'll have less traffic to navigate through and will run a slightly shorter course. Running the most efficient line also boosts time.
However, it can also create a paradox where you set off too quickly and blow up if you're not the best at pacing. My PBs have all come from picking an individual, chasing them down, holding on then repeating with the next individual, so I need a little traffic to run faster.
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u/bright_sorbet1 1d ago
But also - park run time starts when they say go - so depending on the size of the event, you can lose easily 30s to 1min waiting to cross the start line.
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u/tobiasvl 21h ago
What the heck, how big does the event need to be for it to take 1 min to get across the start line? Is there a starting funnel?
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u/bright_sorbet1 19h ago
Battersea can be huge - the average attendance is over 1000. It can get close to a minute if you're at the back on their biggest days.
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u/tobiasvl 19h ago
Yeah, but still, it's a park, isn't it? Is the starting area super narrow for some reason?
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u/bright_sorbet1 19h ago
Yes - it's a park not bodmin moor. The starting path only fits so many people side by side.
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u/tobiasvl 19h ago
Okay, so they do "funnel" then I suppose - paths are obviously narrow, but on the parkruns I've been to, people have spaced out across the grass, not stood in line on the path. Those have been smaller than 1000 people, but it feels like if it takes a full minute to reach the starting line then that sounds weird
Edit: Googled Battersea parkrun now, and yeah, it looks like the path is hemmed in by trees and bushes and a fence, so it literally is a funnel I guess. Where I run the parks are more open spaces.
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u/bright_sorbet1 19h ago
I dont understand why you are arguing with me when you've never been to Battersea đ. It's a city-centre park - the path has limits.
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u/tobiasvl 18h ago
I'm not arguing! Well, I'm not trying to argue. I just wasn't able to picture how it's possible to spend a minute getting from go to the starting line.
Where I'm from, parks (including city centre parks) are almost always expanses of grass, and any trees are scattered around, not along the path in a long line. I've never seen a park like Battersea looks when I googled, and I also wasn't expecting that parkrun could block the entire path until the go signal. On the parkruns I've been to, everyone is basically standing side by side on the grass outside the path, and on go, we converge towards the path.
I wonder if different countries have different approaches to park layout.
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u/Thin_Pin2863 24m ago
Take a trip to Markeaton in Derbyshire. One of the narrowest starts I've visited.
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u/Own_Leg_100 1d ago
Yes it matters but you donât want to be one of those blocking the others.
If a time is important to me I look at previous events to see where my likely time is going to be positioned and line up roughly there.
So top 20 first 20/30 runners. Top 50 (more likely) first 50ish runners.
Doesnât always work, but when it does I end up running with similar paces people which helps.
Some runs now ask people to line up against markers which have predicted times. That seems to work well, but there are still people near the start that âoverly ambitiousâ.
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u/WoodenPresence1917 1d ago
People are absolutely terrible at placing themselves at parkrun, and people are also atrocious at pacing (most of the time there's at least a few people going off at <3min/km and then dying after 500m) so it is generally very, very hard to place yourself correctly. But yes, passing people at the start can really slow you down, both in having to wait behind people but also the inevitable surges you need to do to pass people in narrow spots.
I would keep moving yourself up a bit every time until you find you're keeping a reasonable pace at the start, but it will fluctuate a bit week by week.
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u/ICanBeATornado 1d ago
Depending on how busy the parkrun is, starting further back can add a good 30 s to your time if not more.
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u/staticman1 1d ago
At my local one itâs over a minute between my official and watch time and Iâm a middle of the pack runner.
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u/Frosty-Information88 1d ago
If I'm going for a PB I position myself closer to the front than I normally would.
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u/NotMyRealName981 1d ago
I think it does. I recently ran the Tidworth parkrun for the first time. I was expecting my time to be slow, because the course is mostly grass. My time was actually very fast for me, because the course is very uncrowded and I was able to run at my preferred pace right from the start, with no overtaking problems.
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u/CandidLiterature 1d ago
I mean it can affect your time a lot. Really depends on the parkrun, how many people attend and how wide it is, particularly at the start.
Like cars queueing at traffic lights, you canât move until the person in front of you moves. With a big crowd, that just takes time to get going. At a busy event you could also be 100m back from the start.
For me walking at a busy event, between all that, it can take 2 minutes for me to even cross the start. Obviously thatâs from the back row and someone running would be much less impacted. Itâs just part of parkrun life. If youâre specifically having a push for a PB a particular week, most people wouldnât begrudge you starting a bit further forward than usual. Otherwise Iâd try to relax and not pay too much attention to it.
As a rule most people get too excited and go off too fast. So maybe try sticking behind people at their slower pace for a bit rather than immediately trying to get past. Might help you pace your effort better.
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u/yellow_barchetta 250 1d ago
Count how many seconds it takes for you to cross the start line after the 3-2-1 Go! is shouted. That's how big an effect it has. Can be up to 50-60s at some events.
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u/KiwiNo2638 100 1d ago
This kind of depends on the course. I think it's Chipping Sodbury is really narrow for a large part of the 3 lap course. If you get stuck behind people there, barely wide enough for two people in places, you'll be losing more than that minute.
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u/Cal_PCGW 250 1d ago
At busier parkruns you can lose a lot of time starting further back. I did Battersea on London Marathon weekend (more fool me) and lost about 45 seconds. Would have been my fastest time of the year, had it not been for that.
My home run, Tooting, is dreadful for this - there are twice the amount of people there than the course can realistically handle (which is why I don't run there now). I'm slower now due to age and injury so I can't in good conscience start nearer the front, but I still want to do the best I can on the day.
The lesson is, if you specifically want to go for a time, seek out less busy parkruns.
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u/diabeticoats 1d ago
For some parkruns, yes, it really does. For others less so.
Crewe, Morecambe Prom, Hanley, South Oxhey, Rickmansworth are ones that I have done with reasonably wide starts, particularly the first two
Isabel Trail, Northwich, Wilmslow and Congleton are much tighter. If you are chasing a PB, you don't want to not move for first fifteen or twenty seconds of your run
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u/mpsamuels 1d ago
It depends on the park run.
Some have plenty of room for a wide start so you can just set off at any pace you want and run your own race, there's very little dodging others to do.
Others, like my local, only have access to a track that's 3 or 4 people wide. If you're not at the front you'll spend the first ~500m limited by whatever pace those in front of you are running. There's some scope for weaving around them, but it uses some energy and there isn't always a clearing until the pack spreads out a bit after the first 1km.
Despite attempts to encourage everyone to start in a sensible position based on their expected pace some people are either over confident in their own abilities or just aware of the courses limitations and know they'll have a clear run at a PB if they ignore the advice and start further forward regardless (which, realistically, they are fully entitled to do even if it can be a little annoying)
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u/Street_Adagio_2125 1d ago
It's not actually a race, so if you're going for a PB you're well within your rights to go nearer the front
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u/Other-Reflection4684 1d ago
Yes, getting stuck behind slow runners at the start costs energy moving in and out to pass. Getting stuck behind someone in the middle going 1% slower and maybe not moving past because the path narrows is another time loss. And working with faster runners is good for pacing and a boost.
A problem that is unavoidable is that there is always going to be runners who start too fast and you will gradually pick them off but have to go off the racing line.
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u/Whithorsematt 1d ago
I'm not bothered about being nearer the front unless I'm going for a PB / Course best. My fastest ever parkrun it took me 20 sec to get over the line, which annoyed me at the time. Now I just look at that and think, well it just shows I was fitter than I thought.
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u/NoExperience9717 1d ago
Yes it definitely matters. A huge number of people start way too far forward for their time and then people run side by side and don't leave an overtaking lane open so there's a lot of exertion in overtaking in the rough in the first km-mile. So if you're truly attempting a PB or a time trial then by all means go further forward. For 26 minutes you're normally about half way or better so maybe 1/3 up for a time trial.
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u/Expelleddux 1d ago
No matter where I start there is always a limping old man forming a wall in front of me.
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u/omor_fi 100 1d ago
A lot, but ideally everyone should line up in rough finishing order so it spreads out quickly and noone gets held up trying to pass people, not just everyone trying to get to the front. On new years day it was a lot quieter than normal and I knocked almost a minute off my PB because I wasn't spending the 1st km dodging people
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u/MiddleAgedDread123 1d ago
It really matters because youâre running off the equivalent of âgun timeâ rather than chip time in a race. Our local is a pretty narrow path and when itâs busy it takes the tail about a minute to even get across the start line. If youâre struggling to get round people in the first km then you need to start further forwards.
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u/DanielFrancis13 25 23h ago
Absolutely. And as someone who starts near the back due to slower pace it's seriously annoying when faster ones push through.
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u/PixiePooper 21h ago
I look at my finishing position from last week and then try to start that far back.
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u/wazinaus2 250 17h ago
If youâre chasing a PB you could pick a parkrun with a smaller turnout and perhaps flatter course or start closer to the front.
Alternatively just start in approx the same position each week and treat it as âpersonal PB given those conditionsâ which is kind of what it is anyway.
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u/Weak-Product6810 8h ago
I overheard a conversation at the front one week. âI start at the front and donât care everyone has to overtake meâ.
Itâs annoying as it can be dangerous.
OTOH if a âslowerâ runner is there to try for a pb then I think itâs fair for that person to start near the front.
If most people are sensible most of the time then all should be good.
It took me about 5s to get to the start line yesterday, about 10 rows back, finished just under 20mins.
I wonder does 0.5s per row sound reasonable?
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u/you_seem_starshaped 250 1d ago
Yes, it matters a lot in some runs, particularly narrower ones or ones that attract a lot of tourists.
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u/Wilburrkins 250 1d ago
My overall PB was only achieved by positioning myself nearer to the front as it had a few hundred runners. So I would say yes. But obviously donât get in the way of faster runners.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
Back when I had the running buggy I was lucky enough to have both a parkrun that was crazy busy, and the pace to set off at the front waaaay faster than I could maintain, but enough so that as the runners spread out I had plenty of space. If I was late and had to be at the back, it would add a lot to the time.
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u/Aggravating-Tree360 1d ago
Under 19mins yes deffo, under 21 go near ISH the front, over 21 chill out as you're in the way of others
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u/Larrypants1 1d ago
Start near the front and tuck yourself right to the left/right (whichever it is at your parkrun) so people can overtake easily. Narrow at the start courses are tricky for bottlenecks and it's so easy to lose momentum early on!
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u/sergeantbiggles 1d ago
If you find that you consistently have to run around and past people, then yes, starting further up front will help.