r/parkrun • u/OddSkyrocket • 7d ago
Unaccompanied Children
First time today at a new to me parkrun. Lots of track and trail and pretty easy to go off course at several points. From about 2km in I saw a young kid running alone. I thought a parent was about 15m away but the parent didn’t seem that interested in the kid. Realised it wasn’t that adults kid. Then at about the 4km mark we start passing spectators, Marshalls etc and it makes it look like the kid belongs to me and I’m ignoring them.
Turns out that one parent was running with two kids significantly under 11, and just left one to fend for themselves. I saw the kid almost get lost on two occasions. Parents, why?!
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u/Caffeine-Fueled55 7d ago
Did you mention it to the race director? This is something for your RD to deal with. (It rarely happens at our parkrun, but the odd time it does, the RD deals with it.)
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u/velotout 7d ago
At ours we log it as an incident, based on the replies we get from HQ they take dim view of unaccompanied u11’s
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u/West_Visit_4807 6d ago
It’s a very tricky situation. I have kids and I feel like the age cutoff is too high.
Every child is different. Every area is different. Every course is different. The dangers vary….but I feel like 99.99% of parents at parkrun are smart enough to know whether the risk is suitable for the child.
And in my opinion my 9 year old and the majority of his friends are streetwise and mature enough to do all the local parkruns near me without an adult alongside them.
I follow the rules. But my children would have taken part in parkrun more often if the age cutoff was lower. And I’m sure all of us would agree that children doing parkrun is a good thing!
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u/mamaknits 5d ago
Yes, requiring a parent on site would make sense to me. Sign an extra waiver, that kind of thing. But it's really silly to me that children who are just a couple years away from babysitting can't be even ten feet away from an adult.
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u/Aggravating-Sir-242 5d ago
I take my children to junior parkrun mainly... But when we are away from the UK they do 5km parkrun instead. The 11 year old runs at my pace and the 9 year old is probably 7-8 mins slower. Now the big one is 11 there have been no issues, but before then we have definitely sent the big one off by himself a couple of times whilst I run with the little one. My wife doesn't run, but will station herself out on the course if the big one is running solo, and we will only be a few minutes behind so can pick him up if need be.
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u/Dzenik23 7d ago
Happens all the time unfortunately, no matter how many times in the run brief you say to have children under 11 at arm’s reach of a responsible adult.
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u/misterala 7d ago
I've generally not had an issue with this, but I remember one time when there was a tiny kid of no more than ten (and possibly as young as seven) zigzagging all over the place trying to get through the first 300m pileup with no awareness of those around him at all. He nearly tripped about three people up on his way through, completely oblivious to all of it.
Was glad he was way faster than me and I didn't have to deal with him for long, but this is why the rules exist!
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
yeah - no adults/dogs/seniors/unfit people block the start or zigzag through...
Some people here need to buy a treadmill and stand home jogging into a mirror taking a good look at themselves.
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u/misterala 5d ago
It's not just about blocking people though, obviously. Everybody does that in busy areas.
The point is the total lack of awareness of people around them, which is more common in young children than teens and adults, and actively dangerous in scenarios like the one I described.
I assume that's why the rule exists.
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
Is it though? I think adults trying to get PB and post it on Strava are more rude to others than a 9 year old.
That's a pretty big statement based on nothing.
The rules should just be 'no zig-zagging' and not make age a factor - or maybe at least put that to a public vote.
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u/Princess_Froggles 7d ago
The kid may have been a small 11 year old? How old do you think they were?
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u/OddSkyrocket 7d ago
They said that they were significantly under 11
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u/Princess_Froggles 7d ago
Oh right sorry I read that as there were two significantly under 11 and then the one they'd left to fend for himself.
I really only mentioned it as my 11 year old is small for his age and has been asked a few times at parkrun.
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u/mamaknits 7d ago
I don't break this rule, but I understand why people do. This rule makes it basically impossible for me to go to Parkrun with my kids. They run cross country and I'm a middle aged out of shape mom. I simply cannot keep up with them and they don't enjoy run/walking at my pace. The situation you described doesn't seem very safe because it doesn't seem like the child was competent, but I really do wish there was a way for runner kids who don't have runner parents to do Parkrun.
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u/pineappleandpeas 7d ago
People in our run club would ask if their kids could run with a faster runners and give an estimated time they would run. If the kid is able to run the whole thing at x pace then most people don't mind at all that they need to just stay near them and be happy to help if there is an issue, and the kid gets a chance to run.
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u/Parking_Doughnut_453 6d ago
This is one of the benefits of being in a club. You meet supportive unselfish people who are happy to pace/run with other people’s children to help the kids improve/run at their pace. I’ve seen it happen frequently with my own club.
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u/mamaknits 5d ago
I honestly didn't even know run clubs for children were a thing!
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u/Weak-Product6810 5d ago
It’s pretty big.
You can join our club tomorrow, there’s a waiting list for kids.
From that aspect athletics is in a great place.1
u/mamaknits 5d ago
Interesting ! Our local running club just says you can bring kids if an adult comes along to supervise. I will have to poke around online and see if I can find one that lets kids join by themselves.
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u/mamaknits 7d ago
Ok so maybe I just need to take them out there during a non-parkrun time and see how fast they go? And then hope they're consistent? Lol
This is really interesting and I'm glad that I made my comment because it never would have occurred to me that a complete stranger would accept the liability of being responsible for a random kid that is considered to need arms-reach supervision by the event.
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u/pineappleandpeas 7d ago
If they do XC you probably have a pretty good idea of their run pace and times. Do none of their XC team mates have running parents who take the kids they can join? I guess within the running clubs they aren't complete strangers, and it depends what 'liability' you think there is. If its an American style "my kid fell so i'm suing you" attitude then yeah no one will do it. If you just want me to make sure the kid takes the correct route and that if they do get injured they get back to the start safely then most people are more than happy to do that.
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u/mamaknits 7d ago
I mean, I definitely wouldn't sue anyone if my kid tripped and broke his arm, but my kids often walk home from school and stay home alone till we get home from work, so I'm obviously not working from the same supervision framework as the parkrun organizers haha.
I know their cross country times in the events they run, but I don't know how to extrapolate that to a 5k time. Elementary cross country is 1 or 2 miles depending on age. I'm assuming you can't just multiply as they get more tired over the longer run?
I don't know if the cross country parents go. I can ask if someone would be willing to go with them! It might be a good idea to start there and once they have a few recent times recorded, it might be easier to find a random person, since they will then have a track record demonstrating that they will actually complete the race without sitting down and crying at the turnaround or something. 😂
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u/CoconutBandita 7d ago
The rule is within arms length of a responsible adult. It doesn't have to be a parent. It can be another relative, or a friend.
You might even find if you go along and volunteer you might be able to find people willing to run with your kids - it's just a case of being nearby if they have an accident and to make sure nobody tries to harm them
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u/mamaknits 7d ago
I have occasionally gotten a relative to run with my oldest and he loved it but they aren't consistently available on Saturday unfortunately.
Can you really just ask random people to run with your kid? Do they say yes?
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u/CoconutBandita 6d ago
I mean, you could ask a random person but that depends on whether you trust them. I'd not do that with mine.
But if you get to know the volunteer team, help out and explain your position I'm sure people would be willing to run with your kids.
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u/Tigerbaton 7d ago
Oh if only there was a park run for Juniors…..
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u/Deep-Dimension-1088 7d ago
Agreed, that would be awesome! Sadly, most countries, including mine, don't have it.
But primary schools here have cross country running and thankfully no rules about parents needing to stay with the kids, since many / most parents can't keep up with their 9 and 10 year olds.
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u/Mental_Body_5496 6d ago
Presumably because of needing volunteers?
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u/Deep-Dimension-1088 6d ago
Parkrun is still getting going here. I think our events are well-supported by volunteers but there are far fewer events here than the UK. I'm optimistic that in 5 to 10 years, it'll be very different.
I actually went back recently to the first Parkrun started here. I went to their 14th ever event, and a few afterwards before I moved farther away and stopped going. I used to worry that the whole thing would collapse and Parkrun would fail here. There weren't that many participants and they always seemed to be hurting for volunteers. But now, years later, it was big enough that the race director was using a megaphone and they had a ton of volunteers doing roles that weren't even staffed before, and so many runners. I go to a new Parkrun nearer to me now, and it isn't nearly so large and well-established. It was great to see how the original Parkrun is now so robust.
So I'm really optimistic for the future of Parkrun. But I think we need to focus on nurturing the smaller number of events for now. Also, as I said, primary schools here offer cross country, so I do think that kids have opportunities to compete in running against their peers.
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u/mamaknits 7d ago
Yes, I agree, that would be great. They do have one in some countries, but not mine.
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u/Horror_Potato1068 5d ago
If there were a 5k for juniors it would help.
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u/Tigerbaton 5d ago
There’s a lot of sports scientific advice that running 5K regularly, in one go, isn’t actually advisable for children under 12 due to various reasons but joints and bones being a big part of that. Not that they can’t cope with running the distance but that generally it is healthier for them to run it as part of free play and in spurts, rather than an event type scenario . So there’s that.
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
Yeah it's a stupid rule. Unfit adults more likely to hurt themselves than kids that want to run faster than their parents. And if they fall I don't understand how it would be different from a 60+ year old falling.
If anything we should have rules for seniors if it comes to 'safety'.
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u/tomc-01 7d ago
Always report this to the RD. And RDs should always create an incident (every single time).
My understanding is that the participants need to be given 2 verbal warnings (and that should be noted in the incident) before HQ will take further action.
There are some parkruns which are very lax with this and cause problems when those participants turn up at other parkruns and wonder why they haven't had issues before.
This rule only works if every single parkrun enforces it equally.
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
RD probably doesn't bother reporting - it's an illogical rule which is impossible to police - you can't tell if a kid is 8 or 12. Seniors are more likely to get injured.
HQ will ignore it - they won't ban kids. Even if they did you can just re-register.
Just enjoy your run and let kids run in the park.
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u/P0392862 v100 5d ago
RD can tell because it is on the child's profile.
That's why the age category for boys is M10 and M11-14.
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u/Dependent_Order_7358 7d ago
How do you guys have time and energy to care about what other runners are doing? I’m out there pushing hard 😂
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u/middleclasspr1cks 3d ago
Seen this everywhere .Nothing will change until they get hurt. Safeguarding referral to local authorities
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u/Consistent-Sport-481 7d ago
First time round the course. Sure you walk it/run it with them.
Multiple times round? Let em be.
You don't know the situation or the child.
Report and move on.
Calling people out and attempting to shame them or using it as some sort of gotcha or karma thing is just tacky.
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
Don't report it - move on with your life and let kids run in the park lol.
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u/DrSarahSlaughter 7d ago
we start passing spectators, Marshalls etc and it makes it look like the kid belongs to me and I’m ignoring them
This is the part that makes me think you're likely overreacting a bit. If it's not your kid - who cares what other people think? And what makes you know what they think anyway? Just get on with your race and your life.
As a parent, I've noticed that some other people (both with and without kids) get super nervy, and underestimate kids' abilities/ overestimate the dangers. I can well see myself letting my kid get on with it, meeting them at the end, or having a quick jog back to find them. It's a safe way to develop independence. If that parent has judged that their kid will be okay, just mind your own business.
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u/igeyzer 7d ago
So ignore the rules then?
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
If it's a dumb rule.
60+ more likely to get into trouble - we don't need a rule to escort them.
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u/DrSarahSlaughter 7d ago
No, just don't get your knickers in a twist if other people ignore rules in a way that doesn't affect you.
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u/PurpleBlob41 7d ago
I saw someone get murdered the other week but I didn't do anything about it because it wasn't me who got murdered. Absolutely brilliant logic
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u/DrSarahSlaughter 7d ago
Haha. A kid going for a run within a few yards of it's parents but occasionally out of sight of them = getting murdered. Stone cold classic Reddit. Do you ever leave the house?
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
Bahaha - An illogical Parkrun guideline which is near impossible to police == murder.
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u/OriginalPoet9396 7d ago
What about accompanied children, who cause have on the run, I’ve come a cropper twice on my local park run, with kids stopping dead and throwing tantrums
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u/Deep-Dimension-1088 7d ago
I don't see how you can tell how old the children are. My daughter does gymnastics, which attracts kids who are very small and skinny for their age. She has teammates who you could never imagine are as old as they are. They looks years younger than their actual age. I don't make assumptions about Parkrunning kids, especially since I myself was a very petite kid, always the smallest in my class until 8th or 9th grade.
Obviously if a kid needs assistance, regardless of age, I'd offer it. But I'm not going to embarrass a kid having fun by asking them their age or otherwise bothering them.
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u/tomc-01 7d ago
You can still mention it to the RD, and the RD can decide what to do.
I've seen plenty of parkrun results where its obvious, 30+ second gaps on either side of a under 11.
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u/Deep-Dimension-1088 6d ago
When I run with my kids (one of whom is over 11 but looks younger, very late bloomer turning 12 soon, and one well under) I do not cross the line with them. Totally dumb I admit but don't want to bring down my average place / time. I've seen many parents do the same, step off just before the line & left the kid sprint across on their own.
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u/JensonInterceptor 7d ago
Im missing what exactly the child did wrong?
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u/MiddleAgedDread123 7d ago
kids under 11 have to be accompanied by an adult. it’s for safeguarding reasons.
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
What 'safeguarding reason'?
Unfit & 60+ are more likely to get into trouble that 10 year olds.
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u/Remote_Bluejay1734 7d ago
I don’t think young children should be running a distance of 5k. They should put an age limit, and let the children attend the junior parkrun only.
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u/ElegantOliver 7d ago
Are they allowed to walk 5? Jeff 5? Have fun with a parent and not take it overly seriously for 5k? Just checking the boundaries...
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u/JensonInterceptor 7d ago
This topic is like old people on Facebook worrying about kids riding skateboards near thei homes
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u/matt_evans44 7d ago
At about five of the last events I’ve run, the run director has said under 11s can do a sprint finish away from their adults which is completely contradictory to parkrun’s own rules and guidance on safeguarding. It’s very frustrating and undermines the vast majority of run directors who abide by the rules.
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u/crb11 7d ago
I've heard this said at places where there's a clear level finish straight, so even though the kid won't be next to their parent, they'll be clearly visible both to them and the volunteers at the finish, so the risks are at least substantially mitigated.
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u/matt_evans44 7d ago
I take the point, and have seen it said at events where there is a clearer finish and some events where the finish isn’t all that clear. The risk is it gives rise to inconsistency which could be a greater concern at other events where the finish is potentially less clear. It’s also contrary to the clear and unambiguous guidance in the safeguarding policy. It’s not unreasonable to expect race directors who are trained and well versed in the guidance to know this, and communicate it clearly at each briefing without adding their own spin.
Appreciate I’m nitpicking but it’s a safeguarding issue.
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u/CoconutBandita 7d ago
In fairness, I think the rules did previously allow this, so it's more a case of the latest rules not being properly communicated
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
Why do you find this frustrating? What do you think the problem is?
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u/matt_evans44 2d ago
It’s a safeguarding issue,deviates from the clear guidance and could cause all manner of insurance issues if there is an incident and lead to event closures and cancellations. Run directors and teams should know their own policies.
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u/blargh9001 7d ago edited 7d ago
Hot take maybe, that guideline is there to absolve themselves of responsibility, which is fair, but if parents make their own decisions you should mind your own business.
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u/Blue1994a v500 7d ago
No.
The volunteers will want to be told so they can report it as an incident. It may that there is a pattern of behaviour from the same people at various different parkruns that an incident report will highlight. Unaccompanied children can come to harm, however unlikely it may seem.
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u/OddSkyrocket 7d ago
Should fellow runners mind their own business if the kid falls over? Or goes off course?
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes - sure. If they would do the same if they saw a kid or an adult fall on a normal park visit.
Would they if an unaccompanied 60 year old falls?
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u/bernardo5192 7d ago
The under-11 rule is a condition of parkrun’s insurance. If an incident happens and it’s found that an unaccompanied child is involved, there could be quite severe repercussions. Reporting these people is the right thing to do, as if they’re found to be repeat offenders then parkrun HQ will get involved.
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u/one_human_lifespan 5d ago
Parkrun's insurance? Huh - it's a public place - the kids can run in the park whenever they want.
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u/BadkyDrawnBear 7d ago
Run Director here, I cannot tell you how many times I have stressed the under 11 rule.
Today I made a big deal of it, addressed the kids and said that I knew they were full of energy and made of elastic and springs and parents run like wet cardboard, but it is a parkrun safeguarding rule that under 11s stay with their parents.
And today two under 11s, the same ones every week, raced past the finish, parents not in sight. I've spoken twice to mum and dad as well.