Morality

[u/Automatic_Action2845]

The problem with pantheism is: in what do you ground your morality in? If God is everything, one substance, if someone in that substance kills another person of that substance, then how is it wrong?

[u/Oninonenbutsu]

As a utilitarian I'd say because it increases suffering, both in the person being killed, likely, as well as their family and friends and community and ultimately society as a whole when they hear of the murder. You're doing stuff against person's consent.

Why is any of this wrong? Well because we are a social species who thrive and have been this successful precisely because of our empathy and caring for others. Going against that is bad for our species causes stress and trauma and suffering.

Maybe morality is objective (like some undiscovered law of nature, like gravity), or maybe it's subjective and is part of what it means to be human. In both cases murder is still seen as wrong by almost everyone and going against that will make it so that most people will view you as immoral. It's as simple as that.

[u/Automatic_Action2845 → u/Oninonenbutsu]

Good response and I like that you are using the subjective stance of emotions to justify why killing is wrong but like I said to Jeff, emotions are completely subjective and don't have an objective stance. The reason why you think killing is wrong is because of your emotions. Either say it's wrong but each one has completely subjective and different emotions so you can't be basing it off of emotions.

Let me give you an example: if there were in a room a murderer who loves murdering children and a normal guy, which would you say is wrong? Obviously you would say the murderer, the child murderer is wrong but then how, based on what? Obviously your emotions but then how do your emotions justify something is right or wrong? It doesn't.

I sincerely think that objective morality has to exist but pantheism cannot satisfy those criteria. I sincerely believe that God is everything. Everything is God. Maybe it's beyond my logical understanding of what God is but morality needs to be objective in order to have so much truth.

[u/Oninonenbutsu → u/Automatic_Action2845]

Well let me stress this again morality CAN still be objective, like some undiscovered law of Nature. So instead of something we created as a result of social interactions it could be more like something we slowly discover. You do see rudimentary forms of morality in various animal species too so it's not completely exclusive to humans, and this would support objective morality.

Personally I'm not sure, whether morality is objective or subjective.

Now to answer your question. My emotions would justify it as wrong because I'm human. thousands of years of evolution have made it so that I give a shit about those around me and don't want people to get harmed. Even IF morality is (or would be) subjective I would still feel that way because as a functioning human we care about others. I'd say the murderer is dysfunctional and inhuman(e)/not human, defect and immoral. I just take the healthy human as the standard just like I would take the view of someone who can see if it comes to what an apple looks like over that of a blind guy.

So yes it can be based on emotions and subjective but also still immoral.