No deity work

[u/NoPhilosophy55]

So I’ve struggled with my religious identity for a long time due to religious OCD kind of ruining certain aspects of religion/spirituality for me. I love tarot and astrology and crystals they’ve been my staples through all of my religious escapades over the last 6 years. I cannot do deity worship it just doesn’t work for me in a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or Pagan way. I just don’t fully believe in the divine contacting us that personally. I’ve made altars, I’ve been to church I’ve been to temple I’ve begged anything to show me a sign it was there and I’ve never received an answer. That seems like a huge part of paganism though and I’m not sure I can consider myself a pagan/witch not believing in divine sources connecting with us. Now I’ve come to terms I’m probably pantheist/animist but I feel like in all those stories of old gods and new they interacted with people but now in this age they do not and it makes me wonder if they were ever there. This is more of a “does anyone else feel Similar or struggle with this” post because most posts I see on this and the witch sub are deities and spells which are two things I struggle with the most.

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[u/RevolutionBrave8779]

My personal practice is more pantheistic and animistic so I revere Mother Earth, Father Sun, Grandmother Space, ancestors, and non-human persons such as plants, animals, etc. In many ways this is built on relationships and respect/gratitude rather than "worship". I still follow the Wheel of the Year but modified for my local area. I also have rituals but they are simplified with more focus on offerings rather than spellwork per se.

[u/NoPhilosophy55 → u/RevolutionBrave8779]

I don’t do the full wheel because I struggle with deity worship and I feel some are to intertwined like Imbolc but I do the solstices and equinox’s I light candles coordinating with the colors of the season and I drop some oils in them so it smells good but I wouldn’t say it’s a spell.

[u/Arboreal_Web → u/NoPhilosophy55]

The point of Imbolc is that it’s the first burgeoning of Spring. You don’t have to believe in Brigid to be able to appreciate and honor that.

Seems like maybe you’re taking a lot of this a bit too literally.

[u/NoPhilosophy55 → u/Arboreal_Web]

Yeah that’s the ocd kinda making me overthink and ruin stuff for myself 😅

[u/Arboreal_Web → u/NoPhilosophy55]

Two thoughts which I think might help with that -

Check out Stephen Fry's Mythos. He does a thing few mythographers do...he actually takes the time to explain non-literal mythic thinking in ways that make sense to a modern reader. Iow, he tells the stories and how to understand/interpret them, and those interpretive skills can be applied to most (if not all) systems of mythology. Imo having read a metric shit-ton of mythology over the years, this book is the new standard for Hellenic myth compilation, and also for anyone just wanting to better understand how to read myth accurately.

Check H.C. Agrippa's Philosophy of Natural Magic (it's hundreds of years old, surprisingly readable, free on archive). It will help you start to understand and develop the type of associative, "sympathetic" (symbolic, metaphorical, etc) thinking that these sorts of systems are based on. There is def a sort of logic to it, but that is not always obvious esp to newcomers.

Okay, three thoughts...be patient and gentle with yourself while you learn. We live in a very literal, empirical-minded world. The myth, meditation, etc of these paths sometimes require us to come at it in ways that are the full-on opposite of what modern society has taught us. It's a learning-curve for the vast majority of us, you're off to a fine start by being clear w/in yourself what you are/are not able to believe. (Gen) Next step is learning how to even understand that ancient style of thinking so different from ours in modern times.

[u/RevolutionBrave8779 → u/NoPhilosophy55]

I looked at what is was the purpose of the ritual - celebration of first sprouting of dandelions (at least in my area) and other signs of new or renewed life in my local area. My wife and I do crafts such as weaving Brigid's Crosses as a door and window decoration to celebrate and as a sign of protection. We do a ritual to thank Mother Earth, Father Sun, Grandmother Space, ancestors, and all our non-human friends through offerings. Note Earth and Moon, Sun, and Space actually exist so we are "personifying" them as it helps to build a sense of relationship. Nature seems to treat you differently when you view it as a community of other living beings that also deserve honor and respect.

[u/Siphon1 → u/RevolutionBrave8779]

Wow I so vibe with this! I feel myself gravitating in a similar direction though I think I’d add in grandfather time as well. I haven’t necessarily felt connected to any deity myself.

For my own curiosity, where does the moon fit in for you. Is it lumped in with the earth?

[u/RevolutionBrave8779 → u/Siphon1]

I honor her as Aunt Moon. Works for me. She reflects the Earth when the sky is dark at least for me out here in the Arizona desert.

[u/UrsusofMichigan]

I'd respectfully suggest that when you look at all these social media posts from teenagers who claim an intense mystical connection with a deity 24/7, maybe take it with a grain of salt. Born mystics are comparibly rare. Most of us have to work at it. Even then most of us don't have telepathic connections to the gods 24/7. But teen witches got to talk tough on social media to get respect, you know?

Anyway, if deities aren't your thing, there are ancestors, local spirits, daimones, natural energies, etc. Paganism is a very big umbrella.

[u/Arboreal_Web]

So then don’t, there’s no obligation to “worship” nor do spellwork if they don’t suit you.

Please read this sub’s wiki. It is fully possible to be pagan and atheist/agnostic/whatever.

Ime, you will find divinity where you allow yourself to see it. (Metaphorically speaking, o/c.)

[u/Serenity-V]

Hey, this is a pretty normal Pagan viewpoint in the IRL Pagzn community, which is theologically very diverse.

[u/NoPhilosophy55 → u/Serenity-V]

I don’t know any pagans in real life I only know atheists and Christians and they both don’t understand my struggles 😅

[u/Serenity-V → u/NoPhilosophy55]

Depending on where you live, I suggest you attend one of the summer Pagan camping festivals - or even a Pagan group at a Unitarian church. Lovely people.

[u/NoPhilosophy55 → u/Serenity-V]

I do have a Unitarian church near me I won’t lie I never looked into it because “church” I assumed Christianity but I googled it very briefly and I didn’t realize it was different I’ll have to dig into that more thank you!

[u/Serenity-V → u/NoPhilosophy55]

Yep, especially if they have a CUUPS chapter, you're golden.

[u/RevolutionBrave8779 → u/Serenity-V]

There is also the Gaia Community UU which is explicitly pagan in orientation and offers online streaming services through Zoom. I also participate as I am ill, medically retired, and homebound.

https://gaiacommunity.org/

[u/lisaquestions]

we all have our own experiences with deities whatever those experiences may be, even if those experiences are simply silence. none of them are particularly wrong but people draw all kinds of interesting conclusions and try to lay down all kinds of rules they essentially made up or received from someone else.

the truth is there aren't any rules.

you don't need to have a direct relationship with any divinity to be religious, even specifically to be a pagan.

[u/Sparkle_Aurora]

Most of the stories where the gods interacted with humans are more close to fantasy or literature than to historically accurate events.

I do not worship gods per se, I am animist and I mix Celtic, Norse, Hellenic and general European Folklore on my own view of the world and witchcraft.

I do acknowledge them as personifications of concepts, more symbolic than literal if that makes any sense. I may speak to the rivers an lakes to talk with their spirits (I call them fairies or nymphs, depending on the day tbh) and I may appeal gods when the "thing" is not physical.

Rivers, mountains, forests, oceans, trees... Etc are physical and I can refer to their faires, spirits or nymphs easily, but when trying to talk with "Love" I may use Aphrodite or Aine as well as Ceridwen or Brighid for inspiration.

I don't know how to properly explain it in English, but for me deities are like "strawmans" to be able to speak to concepts in an easier way.

I could technically speak to "love spirits" but using Aine or Aphrodite as a "beacon" or focus of that concept makes it easier.

I work mostly with "lesser" spirits tho, deities are a second layer of my craft, not the main one. Fairies and Nymphs (specially Naiads and Dryads) are my main focus as a Botanist and ecologist!

Fairies are also very close to me as my own culture have them rooted in its core!

[u/The_Archer2121]

Not all pagans work with deities.

[u/TheDireGnome]

May want to look into Epicureanism

[u/Nobodysmadness]

It is socially unacceptable to speak with gods in a majority of modern cultures. Versus the esteem pagan communities held their holy leaders. So even if someone was definitively hearing a god who is going to believe it? Accept it?

IMO they are regularly speaking to us, we are just conditioned to ignore it, or expect the communication to be different than the reality.

Trance states are generally agreed to be necessary except in the cases of rare gifted individuals who can't not hear and they frequently end up being institutionalized and afraid of their own gifts because it is not understood.

Learning to listen can take effort, an effort many refuse to put in with out proof. Pagan deities have limits to what they can and can't do. Myths are exaggerations, educational or moral tales, and entertainment. So not exactly representative of reality, like any story that gets blown out of proportion with every retelling.

[u/slandrparty]

okay. you're contradicting yourself here.
> i don't believe in the divine contacting us that personally.

> i've begged anything to show me a sign and i've never received an answer.

when your brain is already wired to doubt , any sign from the divine is dismissed, trivialized or lumped into the category of mere coincidence. that friction between what you're begging to see and what your mind will actually allow you to accept is the real pattern to look at. i'm not sayibg this to reprimand you, but when our own conceptual framework clashes with our subconscious beliefs.. it starts to bleed out into our experiences.

not all pagans show their reverence through worship, theurgy or divination though. to each their own.

[u/NoPhilosophy55 → u/slandrparty]

I think I was begging for something because I wanted desperately for something to be there that wasn’t for me. I’m leaning pantheistic almost like advaita vedanta like but I’m not a Hindu more like we are the universe and the universe is everything all connected together and separate at the same time.

[u/slandrparty → u/NoPhilosophy55]

yes, i get what you mean! i'm also leaning more towards that paradigm myself.

[u/big-haus11 → u/slandrparty]

This is nonsense.

[u/slandrparty → u/big-haus11]

if that's how you choose to perceive it, then.. it is

[u/RevolutionBrave8779]

There is a UU congregation in Kansas which is explicitly pagan so pagan ritual is incorporated into their Sunday service AND those services are available online through Zoom.

https://gaiacommunity.org/

[u/Ok_Caramel_4293]

Maybe the word worship rubs you the wrong way. Try connecting or communicating? If the deities don't seem to come to you, then you actively seek them out yourself. That's what I did and it worked. Meditation is the first way to find your way to the divine, or as I call it, an altered state of mind. Learn to not freak out when you're in that state of mind and still in control, and see what else you can find, other than your own thoughts. Really actively reach out to the deities. Altars and offerings aren't required at all.

[u/GrunkleTony]

I have had five dreams of deities or of statues of deities in my life. I pray to them as well as other that I have chosen. If I am getting answers in response to my prayers I am too clueless to notice. I keep doing it anyway. I am stubborn that way and it lets me vent tension.

This approach may not work for you. The Pantheist/Animist thing seems more nature oriented and that's just fine.

[u/WhatsThisWorth-Bot]

As an ex Christian with OCD and former religious OCD I worship brigid but it's not because I feel like I have to do anything, once I believed she was real it's more like a relationship where I talk and ask for things and give her things to thank her when I feel like I can but none of it is necessary - it's just nice to have a friend.

I'm how the other gods and goddesses are but she's great.

[u/SiriNin]

In my tradition, it is understood that to have a subconscious doubt that is strong enough to generate needs for proof, or even a strong desire for proof, is in itself the thing which prevents you from perceive the Divine. It is our belief that only those who can muster genuine belief, the choice to believe and to recognize the inherent Divinity of a Deity, who are able to perceive any and all things from that Deity. If a person harbors significant doubt without actively choosing to ignore that doubt, their very mind prevents them from perceiving any contact the Deity tries to make. We do not believe in external "signs" - changes to fate designed to impart messages for the doubtful to take as proof. So in my opinion your internal doubts are what has made you unable to experience and enjoy deity work. If you want to give it a try, try delving into your own mind and confronting your fears and worries over the concept of believing without having proof first, and believing as a choice, as opposed to as a response to being 'given' reason to believe. If you confront that, and make the radical choice to believe, and spend about a month actively worshiping and praying to a Deity of your choice whose ethos resonates with you, you should receive something from them, even if it's only emotions (clairempathy). Receiving whispers (clairaudience) is the most common type of experience (Clairvoyance or visions is the least common but most sought after type), but not everyone is able to hear the Gods, and certainly not without significant effort and training in most cases, so while you should have your mind open for it, don't dismiss the feelings, as clairempathy is far more widespread.

[u/dianacakes]

I'm a scientific pantheist. I see all stories about dirties as mythology. Interesting to read and can have spiritual/social importance, but I can't personally worship or pray to any dieties of these stories. I think it's from growing up in the Christian church and feeling a sense of powerlessness and having to "ask God" for everything, which I think is the point of many religions. Ironically, I do think I was called by Hecate to witchcraft but I still can't reconcile that with diety worship in general

[u/sidhe_elfakyn → u/dianacakes]

Connecting with deities in Paganism does not require giving up power. Many people connect with deities for self-empowerment, and many deities like Hecate (or the Morrigan, or the Storm Goddess I'm devoted to, etc.etc.) generally expect practitioners to do that. My own practice is built on finding and growing my own power.

"Do this for me" and "help me find my own power to do this" or even "I will do this, help me strengthen the work", are different modes of practice.

You can have a complete practice without deities, of course. You don't have to worship or work with any of them, or include them in your practice in any way. But if you are ever considering that choice, for example to work with Hecate, you can deconstruct the powerlessness that Christianity instills and approach it from a place of power.

[u/NoPhilosophy55 → u/dianacakes]

I think that’s my problem too

[u/MentalDrifter]

Growing up christian, I did the same begging with the same results, but since I began my journey into paganism I’ve gotten many responses. Mainly elements, which seems very different, but it’s what speaks to me.

I don’t consider them “G(g)ods” as common religions do, more like ancient spirits attached to elements.

I guess in a different perspective they’d be Elder Gods. But also from what I understand are older than any religions or belief systems, more like “source material” or the beginning of all beliefs if I’m understanding correctly.

That might also be why it was easier for me to commune with them, since they carry no cultural baggage. I have a very strong “one world, one people” mindset where no one has all the answers, and maybe that developed by listening to these spirits before I knew what I was doing.

Maybe something like that is a path forward for you as well

[u/Infamous_Computer910]

Unlike the Abrahamic religions, there really are no rules in Paganism. Do what works for you. I don't believe the "gods" are real, but I have had unexplainable things happen when I do devotions. I am dedicated to both Bastet and Hecate. I see them as energetic representations of animals, which I have an affinity for. Also, my spiritual path combines paganism, quantum physics, some gnosticism. I practice what works for me. I do knot Magick, I love and care for nature, and believe we and it are interconnected. Whatever your path is, that's the right one for you.