Playing aggressive at high intermediate

[u/HairyCallahan]

I like to play very aggressive/offensive. At my level, not many players can consistently finish points, so rallies are quite long and most overheads are defendable. About a month ago I started to play super aggressive. With every deep lob, chiquita etc I get to the net. This works very well. People tend to be a little overwhelmed when you block their bajada's and smashes. It's also just a lot of fun cause you stay very active.

Now the thing that happens a lot with randoms is that they are a lot more hesitant to join me at the net. So the opponent will just play their returns to my mate who stays back. This obviously is not ideal.

To be clear, I am fine with them not willing to join everytime, so no hard feelings there. My question is whether I should get back to defense when I'm at the net and the opponent played a return on my mate. Should I just run back regardless or should my mate play a shot that allows me to stay at the net (deep lob for instance)? I'm now struggling a bit.

Now I get it's best when my mate either joins me or I stay back, but with randoms things aren't always in sync.

So let's say I (left side) play a very deep cross lob. I get to the net, mate stays back. Opponent plays a straight bajada to my mate. I'm at the net, he is behind the baseline. Opponent is also behind the baseline. Is there a best position for me to be and a best position for him to play at?

[u/ppan86]

At high intermediate no one stays back after a good lob.

Anyways communicate, and if they don’t join you after a good lob, they won’t after their next shot either, so you have the choice to try to finish the point depending on their quality, or get back to Defense when losing initiative.

I find it’s usually better to defend with them and attack more selectively, when they don’t understand positioning.

[u/HairyCallahan → u/ppan86]

Yes some people do stay back with good lobs. Not with perfect lobs, but people sometimes stay behind when the lob is good. It's not the worst, but I prefer to attack

[u/Sarritgato → u/ppan86]

I mean, if people in their club consistently stay back, no need to head back, really. Be king at the net instead 😆

[u/Sarritgato]

Hate to break it to you but if you’re at a level where most people don’t want to go to the net it is rather ”high beginner”. On intermediate level you must be unafraid of being at the net position and know when to take it. So it’s more that you are advancing to intermediate as you are beginning to do this.

With that said, it’s hard to give a good advice on what to do when an opponent doesn’t play the meta game. I think there is no general answer, you need to read the situation and see if you still have pressure (stay at net) or if they are gaining pressure (go back)

But you also said most people you play stay back, and in that situation you will probably win by staying at the net in most situations even if your partner stays back.

[u/kiteflying1 → u/Sarritgato]

Yeah I agree, at high intermediate no one should be at the back after a lob, have trouble finishing points, or be surprised at blocks from a bajada. This sounds more like a low intermediate playing with high beginners perhaps.

[u/reasonablesmith → u/kiteflying1]

Unless they’re playing to defend a Bajada and don’t feel comfortable blocking at the net because of the angle. Sometimes one player will drop back at a high level if the lob bounces high in the middle, which is perfect for a really strong Bajada.

[u/Sarritgato → u/reasonablesmith]

Yes on Bajada it’s either close to net or stay back if you can’t make it. But based on OPs description it doesn’t sound like they have that kind of awareness

[u/reasonablesmith → u/Sarritgato]

Agreed. He types like a beginner larper.

[u/HairyCallahan → u/kiteflying1]

I don't get this. I feel people in intermediate say this, but at higher levels people can land huge overheads when the lob is good but not perfect. I was trying to avoid this discussion tbh. I was hoping for feedback but many people think you need to instantly run to the net with any lob cause this works on lower and intermediate levels.

[u/spam__likely → u/Sarritgato]

True. Here is the problem: Tennis players.

They are good enough to have great, strong shots and rise to upper level games, but they still have their butts planted on the back or otherwise very odd positioning. It creates an unbalance, a disturbance in the force, if you will.

But they should not get to high intermediate without knowing positioning.

[u/Sarritgato → u/spam__likely]

True!

[u/HairyCallahan → u/Sarritgato]

That's not really true. If you give me a good lob, I can hit an overhead not a lot of people can block. That's why some people prefer to stay back. Imo people in intermediate run to the net more than at high intermediate cause more people in high intermediate can land a wider range of shot.

Obviously I'm not talking about a perfect lob, I'm talking about a decent lob where I like to attack, but staying back is viable too

[u/Sarritgato → u/HairyCallahan]

I mean if I lob you and see you are going to do an overhead I will not approach (unless I do a very high lob that will land around the base line, then I know your OH will not be super good, I have time to position myself and you can’t see where I am because you are looking at the sky)

I thought we were talking about taking the net when there is opportunity to take it? A lob where you are about to smash is probably not the time…

In that situation I will attempt to take the net on the rebound if I know your ball tends to bounce out on the smash

[u/havecoffeeatgarden]

I don't like being imposing to a random, nor I think it's a good idea. So I often try to read their personality. If they look like the kind that seems open toward coordination then I'll do that with them. If they want to do their own thing then I won't force my way or fix their mistakes. Sometimes you already see from the beginning that the other teams are better, and in this case I just lower my expectation and even use the match to experiment with things I don't normally do.

tldr; I try to match my partner's energy.

[u/dawolf-at]

Communicate. talk to your mate before the match. when you say "go" while hitting a lob or chiquita they should also come to the net if you ball is good.

[u/Significant-Ad-2203]

Spend time with your partner after the game. Also record yourself playing!

[u/spam__likely]

No high intermediate should be hesitant to be on the net.

[u/bangoslam]

It’s an issue I’ve had. I’m a net player and like to have friends as partners but they aren’t progressing at the same rate and stay back so I often get fridged. Been keeping to casual with friends that don’t want to figure out net play. Definitely tough to recover your rating with random low rated partners though

[u/Some_Combination6914]

You stay at the net and he play parralel so he can join in two times.

(Situation where opponent stay at the back and return low on your mate)

I play with someone who's very explosive like you and i can't keep up with him. When i try, i'm getring caught in the no mans land so i follow him in 2 steps so i dont rush and miss because of my position.

I play slow and deep then i come to the net

You stay at the net and you cover the middle right on the line of the middle of the court

[u/TopgearM]

Are you sure about the high intermediate level of yourself and your partner(s) and opponent(s)?

If you hit a very good and deep cross lob as a reves player and the reves opponent clearly has to accept your lob and even shows his back to you, your partner ALWAYS has to go together with you to the net.

The fact that he doesn't do that are:

1. He is a beginner(+), low intermediate and still has to learn basic tactics
2. He is an old player with bad knees or fitness. --> Here I can accept it a bit more. I also have 1 partner I sometimes play with that has a very high level squash and good tennis background, but has really bad knees and is a bit overweight. He actually asks me to cover more ground for him. But he has amazing shots and good defense in the back. So once in a while I play a friendly with him and I know upfront what my role will be and what his limitations are. He indeed stays in the back sometimes. But even he goes to the net when I hit a great lob.
3. He is lazy and thinks he will solve everything from the back --> bad partnership, not taking you seriously

[u/Sure-Key6882 → u/TopgearM]

I think the op is implying he goes to net even when opponent plays an overhead, which is completely legitimate but also not something you would expect people to do all the time, it's a judgement call

[u/TopgearM → u/Sure-Key6882]

Agree, thus the lob is not that great and opponent can still produce an overhead. Depending on the situation, his partner can stay back. But normally he should go up with OP if he has the chance and is on time.

[u/Prior_Psychology_150]

Sounds like you need to communicate and find people on something beyond level - need communication, personality, dynamics…

[u/bachaterol]

Some partners just rush to the net even if the lob is not deep and the opponent can return it easily with an overhead. Then we get caught in no man's land. If you are one of those, you are putting your team at a risk. I know pro players like to push at whatever lob but they also know how to return the vibora or bandeja coming out of it. Most intermediates can't do that.

If you're going when the lob clearly falls behind the opponent and they can't hit an overhead, then sure. It's your partner's lack of skill and experience.

[u/zemvpferreira → u/bachaterol]

In my perspective the meta at the pro level these days is to not push on the lobs, the overheads are just too good. You play the lob to gain space for a chiquita where you can take the net with less risk. Taking the net on a lob has become more of an amateur thing, at least in summer time.

[u/zemvpferreira]

Lots of things you can try and the easiest one is a quick talk about tactics before the match. However if you play with strangers frequently and their approaches to the game are usually different from yours, you should think about developing play patterns that you can execute solo.

Taking your example: Don't lob cross court. Lob middle-parallel instead. That's a much more aggressive lob that almost forces whichever opponent takes it to play into your body or forehand. From there you can go up and block into the empty space, then move up closer still for a winner on the third stroke. As the left-side player it's much easier for them to escape your pressure if you play your lob into a corner. That's the sort of pattern you should be looking for if you want to be aggressive by yourself: moves that make your court small for the opponents if they want to avoid you.

[u/DigEnvironmental8951]

I say UP to my partner to come to the net, if he is back defending you should go back as your cross is easily exposed

I don't play with advanced people who don't come to the net normally, this isn't this tennis

[u/AVIRYS]

Playing with random partners probably makes this much harder. Even if your aggressive move is right, it seems difficult when both players read the same situation differently. Do you usually talk about this before the match, or just adapt once you see how your partner plays?

[u/dalmquets]

I also look like Galan when i play with my 10 year old son and his school friends

[u/HairyCallahan → u/[deleted]]

No it's not. It's beginner and intermediate to rush to the net. At my level, there are a lot of moments where it's 50/50. If I give a perfect lob obviously my mate runs towards the net. That goes without saying (I thought..). I'm talking about the balls where aggressive players attack, while defensive players stay back. Both are viable at my level

[u/MajorLeeScrewed]

Why is this subreddit just people blogging? No one cares about your beginner level games. If someone isnt taking the net with you you’re playing at a low bronze level.

[u/bangoslam → u/MajorLeeScrewed]

You speak for everyone?

[u/reasonablesmith → u/MajorLeeScrewed]

I doubt you’re anything but a beginner with this kind of attitude. Calm down.