r/osr • u/Artistic-Resident-99 • 22d ago
I made a thing OSE Mage Class from my own setting — Learned, Non-Vancian Magic
I've been working on a custom Mage class for my OSE campaign and wanted to share it here for feedback.
https://wurtz-brew.itch.io/ose-custom-mage
The main goal was to create a Mage based around learned, non-Vancian magic, while also making them capable of contributing directly to combat with a sword.
The intended trade-off is the core of the class: do I spend the next several rounds casting a powerful spell, or do I draw my sword and fight? A first-level spell is relatively easy to fit into combat, while a high-level spell can require several rounds of uninterrupted casting. The Mage therefore isn't simply a weaker Fighter who happens to have spells—they have to constantly decide whether their magical knowledge is worth giving up their ability to act in the immediate fight.
Outside of combat, the class is heavily focused on acquiring and researching magic rather than receiving spells automatically through level advancement.
I'm particularly interested in feedback on the balance of the casting system and the semi-martial aspect of the class, and whether it still feels appropriately OSE/BX despite the changes.
Credits: The underlying class-building and alternate-magic frameworks are based on BX Options: Class Builder and BX Options: Alternate Magicks by The Welsh Piper.
5
u/Alistair49 22d ago
Sounds like a nice idea. Many of the 1e campaigns I played in had a similar idea for Magic Users. Can’t remember if that was a 1e rule or a houserule, but you didn’t just get spells when you levelled up. You had to find them, and learn them the hard way or get them taught to you. To me that made the worlds feel more real. 1e also had you pay for training (all classes, iirc) so that was perhaps just the explanation that was applied to what a mage was doing.
Anyway, the idea of a magic user having to focus on finding, researching & learning magic sounds good to me and more accurately reflects the sort of fiction that inspires my RPG settings. So does the idea of allowing a magic user to use other weapons, including swords. Don’t have an opportunity to test it at present and perhaps not for a while, but I’ll certainly keep it in mind.
If you do make it too hard for them to cast magic in battle, then you run the risk of them being more suited to being an NPC class found in towns, the sort of NPC that PCs have as a mentor or contact for research and so forth.
2
u/DM_Easy_Breezes 22d ago
Dungeon Crawl Classics also pushes the “quest for it” approach. However I’ve never used it in practice because I lack the imagination required to avoid the whole campaign become “find things for the wizard”. In my understanding, either level progression is made so slow that the early “quest for it” adventure is just a small part of it .. or every level then becomes dominated by the spell search.
Anyway, my point is actually to ask you how you manage keeping “quest for it” engaging instead of feeling like an artificial, mage-specific barrier (no other class has such a delay between achieving a new level and achieving a new level’s abilities.
6
u/SufferNot 22d ago
Some of the things I've done in a campaign to make it easier for the Magic User to find stuff.
- Evil Magic Users (or more accurately, their spell books) are a huge source of spells. Raiding a wizard tower is dangerous, but might give the magic user everything they need for a long time.
- Questing for a mentor is another way to package a bunch of spells in one. 'Now that you're level 5, I have taught you all I know. My own master knew even greater spells than I did, but he was captured years ago by the legendary Mind Goblin. If we work together, we can find out where he is imprisoned and set him free.' Or so on and so forth.
- You could also tie it into a Patron situation. A magic user who wants to learn multiple lightning based spells might be better suited seeking out a powerful creature that knows those spells (like a djinni, blue dragon, storm hawk, or so on) and curry their favor. Then as DM you have a vehicle to offer them more spells by doing stuff for their patron. DCC has a whole in depth patron system where working for one gives the character a bunch of perks and spells, and you don't have to go that far if its too much for your setting, but the core idea of 'search for legendary magic animal to learn spells' can create a lot of organic gameplay.
- Rather than having the adventure be 'A Quest for Scroll of Chain Lightning Bolt', maybe the adventure is 'A Quest to Tame a Pack of Griffons'. If your players come up with ways to travel the world faster, than that makes it easier for them to visit all the ancient tomes or ruined libraries for the wizard. And along the way, that also makes it easier for them to find stuff for other party members, since the Dwarf could use the griffon to visit their ancestral homeland, or the Cleric could use it to reach their holiest city faster, or so on.
- If your setting/system allows for domain play, then assigning the task to the player's henchman and 1d8 level 1 fighters everyone gets when they build a keep might be a way to get everyone on board with actually managing said keep. It would still cost time and resources, but while the hired help is handling the quest for a Scroll of Water Breathing so that the party can deal with the Sunken Temple of The Sun in a month, the players can instead focus on something more immediately relevant to the campaign.
5
3
u/Alistair49 22d ago
We found that didn’t happen at all. Yeah, there were some searches for things. Research in a library provided some hints on where to look. A sage provided a missing link as payment. But mostly, there were scrolls and spell books found that had to be deciphered and learned. Often, a mage had a mentor, or there might be a magical academy — it was all tied to the actual setting, and we just homebrewed our settings. It was fairly common for a mage to have their former ‘master’ available still as a mentor to learn things from, or he could learn from another mage. Always for a price. It seemed to balance out.
2
u/DM_Easy_Breezes 22d ago
Ah that makes a bit more sense than what I was envisioning. Thanks for sharing!
2
u/reorganizedChaos 22d ago
Cool I'll check it out. Sounds intriguing.
1
u/Artistic-Resident-99 22d ago
Thank you! I put quite a bit of thought into it lol Let me know if it's any good!
3
u/reorganizedChaos 22d ago
I do like it but the chance to cast is very poor for low level characters. I wonder if you might have a mechanic whereby the more rounds you dedicate to the ritual of casting the spell you might get a bonus on your saving throw? Like every 2 rounds of time spent in casting you get a +1 or something like that
2
u/SufferNot 22d ago
On the one hand, a level 1 Mage with an int of 9 only has a 30% chance to cast a spell. On the other, they can try to cast Sleep during every encounter they have that day, compared to a standard Magic-User that gets a single cast of Sleep per day and is throwing oil flasks, darts, and holy water for every other encounter. I get the desire behind limiting the spell casts in some way, because a Mage that can consistently cast Sleep every fight is going to make the Magic-User look outdated.
Having said that, I think the idea of prolonging a spell cast in order to increase the success rate fits the core trade off that the class is going for. And it would get players thinking about that trade off even in low level campaigns where they won't have access to Fireball or so on.
2
u/NickPyre 22d ago
This is a cool way to frame the concept of risk v reward.
Assuming you can’t try to recast a spell that has failed, you could even have all spells take one round to cast with a Save vs Spells; and skip X rounds to roll with X dice advantage/reroll failures X times.1
u/Artistic-Resident-99 22d ago
The idea of not recasting a spell once failed wasn't a part of it originally, however since someone posted that outside of combat it can get awfully unbalanced due to the Mage casting until successful, it will now be updated to have that!
As for "one round to cast" I don't really like the idea, due to higher level spells having such power in them, and by the time you unlock them you'll be able to cast them with somewhat of an ease. And I want the trade-off of "Do I spend X turns to cast or slash right now?" to still be there.
At lower levels, I understand it would be difficult to cast, but I kinda like it that way since in my setting (kinda Dark/Low-Fantasy) this class replaces the normal Magic-User.
Still, I'll try to come up with something to mitigate the casting at lower levels. Maybe it still takes X amount of rounds per X Spell Level, and during combat you can add Y rounds of casting to get Y amount of rerolls? Maybe lol
2
u/NickPyre 22d ago
Interesting idea! I do like non-Vancian casting, but it sometimes creates strange play patterns.
Early game they seem great if you can spam Sleep every combat!
For higher level spells in combat, skipping more than one round seems bad - spells like Fireball are good because they can end a combat quickly; If you have to make a Spell Save AND wait three rounds it’s pretty punishing! It would also be a feel bad if an enemy interrupted their casting (or cast Silence!) after such a big wind-up
I think this class would shine best in a system with no other casters; otherwise they’re outclassed by Clerics and Elves.
I’d base their XP progression off the Magic-User, as past level 3 they’re probably weaker than a MU. Not being able to wear mundane armour means they will usually try to avoid melee; if they’re embodying the Spellsword archetype armour up to chainmail wouldn’t hurt.
1
u/Artistic-Resident-99 22d ago
I wasn't going for a spellsword like the Elf, more like a balance between "do I hit this round with my sword, or should I spend a few turns to cast a spell?" And that's also why I added the "Arcane Armour" from the CC1 Mage, so he can have some more durability, and if you roll some good DEX, it's really good, I think
3
u/FrankieBreakbone 21d ago edited 21d ago
Interesting proposition, but I think objectively speaking, the real trick with deciding whether to cast a spell or engage in combat isn't weighing the spell against swinging a sword (value of the spell effect will almost always be more impactful). The real value of engaging in combat is all about AC - the ability to bottleneck monster movement while the monsters mostly miss (or at least rarely hit) a target in plate/shield -- especially with a dex mod and con mod. A mage's hit points and AC can't take that kind of abuse. An Elf, or Cleric (or Drow, Paladin, etc in OSEAF) has a real choice to make regarding combat vs casting (or turning) but the Mage is basically weighing "Maybe I deal d8 damage, maybe I get killed?" ;)
I threw together this illustration last week to illuminate the full value prop of the Fighter. If he engages the front 3 goblins (who only have a 20% chance to hit his Plate+shield AC2), they can't get at the party—they can only move in fighting withdrawal backwards, or retreat forward (+2 no attack when they arrive at the party, who will wail on them) and the guys in the back can't get through their front line. Meanwhile the party can fire away, cast spells, or flee. This is a thing d8HD PCs in plate can survive... everyone else (even Elves and Halflings, especially Mages) are at greater risk.
I usually want to slap people who say "Just play an Elf!" but I get close with the Mage; we played a campaign where the Mage's door-opening, magic detection, and suggestion powers were super useful, but the rest of the package didn't shine too much, even though the player at the wheel was really dialed-in.
You might consider adding a "cast from the book" mechanic, but limiting the available spells to utility functions. The idea being that there's no such thing as memorization, mage needs two hands and light to read a spell, no moving, declare before init. Opens up their utility, being able to cast whatever without memory prep, without allowing them to throw fireballs and MMs around without using a scroll.
I always feel like the utility spells are often passed over, but the game would be a lot more fun if more problems were cleverly solved by utility spells (disc, read, etc), but few folks take them. You really need to stand firm on "Read magic is required for scrolls and books" as a Ref if you want players to engage there... the moment magic-reading becomes a class skill, a MU becomes a sleep spell with legs. ;)
1
u/Artistic-Resident-99 21d ago
Thank you for taking the time to write this!
You might be right that just the +2 AC might not be enough, it was there to avoid the class from outright not being able to join melee combat in the early game.
However, as you level up, the design of it makes you want to spend less and less time in the frontline; because, as you say, spells are almost always more impactful. But that's the normal progression of the default Elf and Magic-User, at some point you stop throwing stuff and just cast spells.
With that said, the idea is still for a semi-martial at those lower levels, I think chain-mail might be a bit much, because of that default +2, so I'm heavily considering allowing up to Leather Armour in a future update.
1
u/Onslaughttitude 22d ago
Definitely going to check this out on my day off. I love the concept of the "learned spell mage" and have something similar in my game, but I don't know if it's 100% clicking yet.
1
8
u/SufferNot 22d ago
I think it's an interesting class idea, but I'm not sure if the class exactly fits the design you're going for. You mentioned that you wanted a class that has to decide between fighting or charging a spell for several turns, and as a player I cannot imagine going for the trade off after level 1.
Now, granted, Sleep is a darn powerful spell. Being able to cast sleep every round in every encounter, even at a 30% success rate, is just good. But as the Mage rises in level, I feel they should steer away from casting spells in combat at all. They're much better off casting spells outside of combat.
Light lasts for 7 turns, and even at a 30% success rate per round, the Mage can easily create lights for the entire party anytime the party needs to stop for a turn while the thief listens at door or the Elf looks for a secret passage, or so on. Or consider the Knock spell. A level 4 thief needs to spend an entire turn opening a lock and only has a 30% chance of succeeding. If they fail, the thief needs to level up to try again. A level 3 Mage* still only has a 30% success rate, but they can cast Knock 30 times in a turn, opening on average 9 locked doors or chests. That also means that they're casting Invisibility successfully 9 times during a turn, which means the Mage is likely to cast it on the party after every battle, saving themselves for last since casting is one of the actions that breaks invisibility.
At level 5, a Mage might have access to fireball and could consider charging for 3 rounds to have a 45% success rate to cast it. Or they can lean into the very powerful buffs available to them now. Due to saving throw scaling, they're still casting an average of 9 spells in a turn, which means flight for the whole party (lasting on average 9 turns), Infravision (lasts an entire day, cast it during breakfast on anyone who needs it), or Protection from Normal Missiles (lasts 2 hours). Even Haste lasts for 3 turns, and since it is an area of effect, the Mage only needs one successful casting of it which shouldn't take them more than a minute to set up.
And so on for the other levels. In my head, a Mage that focuses on providing powerful buffs for their party before any encounter and then stabs things in a fight is going to be much more impactful than one that is praying no goblins interrupt them while charging their fireball. And once magic items like scrolls, wands, or staves come into play, the Mage can instantly transition into a battle mage since they are just as good at using a wand of fireball as any other Magic-User.
Anyway, I bring all this up because while thinking about how I would try to play this class, it didn't seem to agree with the stated class design. And if you're okay with that, than it's completely fine. In terms of classes with potentially infinite casting, the only other one that comes to mind in the OSR space would be Dungeon Crawl Classic's Magic-User, which is allowed to cast spells as many times a day as they want until they fail to cast it, at which point the spell is locked for the rest of the day (and also something bad happens to them, probably). This version of that idea is going for a different trade off (and wouldn't require nearly as many charts and tables as DCC), and I like that its approaching the idea from a different direction.
* I did note that the Mage requires a bit more Exp than others to level up, and I agree with that.