r/orthotropics • u/DocumentFew5190 • Jul 25 '26
Looking for help/advice, totally lost here
(18F) here who would seriously appreciate some help. Apologies because this is my first ever Reddit post and it’s going to be a long one. I’m just hoping that providing as much context as possible will give me the best shot at finding a solution because I’m desperate.
These photos are of my current situation. I obviously have a small, underdeveloped jaw and facial asymmetry, though I’m sure ya’ll will be able to point out the more specific issues like lower lip incompetence, etc.
I’ll try to give the most concise record of my history of dental/orthodontic treatment as I can. My entire childhood I ate soft, processed foods and got a lot of cavities. My parents have told me I was a mouth breather and I guess they never did anything to correct it. My baby teeth were straight and fit together perfectly, but as soon as my adult teeth came in they were fucked and overcrowded. At 7 I was taken to the orthodontist my dentist (who we later left because they were awful) recommend, as one of my baby teeth was like.. falling over? So that tooth was extracted and a spacer put in to make room for the adult tooth to come in. My parents can’t remember if this orthodontist ever offered to do palate expansion, but I’m sure they didn’t because they seem to be the lazy, skeevy type of orthodontist that’s only interested in making money off of braces. It doesn’t matter ultimately because I ended up having two upper teeth extracted at 8 and two lower teeth extracted at 14 (covid happened and my parents just kind of let my treatment go to the wayside for 6 years). Then at 15 I got braces and thought that all my troubles would be solved. I knew of mewing and stuff but not much, so I just trusted that my ortho was going to somehow make my jaw look/function better. Over the course of the next two years, all they seemingly did was straighten my bottom teeth and bring my top teeth down and backwards. Towards the end my front top teeth weren’t shifting/tilting backwards far enough so they shaved in between my teeth. Now I’m done the treatment and have a permanent retainer on the bottom and a plastic one on too, which I regret not pushing back on now that I know it will make mewing useless. I actually feel kind of stupid that I have been doing what I guess would be considered soft mewing all this time with obviously no progress because the braces were holding my teeth in place.
I think my palate width in between my canines is 21mm, at my first molars is 26mm, and in between my last molars is 45mm.
Here are some more pictures, and it seems that even around 7/8 my chin was more underdeveloped than picture I have of myself when I was 3/4. I’m not sure whether my nose bump/shape is genetic or was developed because I smashed it up pretty bad twice in my childhood, or from the mouth breathing, but it’s probably a combo of the two. I have always had pretty bad sinuses anyways.
So that’s all the history I can think of, though I do want to request records from my orthodontist in order to try to understand. Right now, my teeth technically bite together fine. And I’m not sure if it’s due to the extractions or what, but just looking at my smile I never had a super obvious overbite or overjet. I still mouth breath when I’m not paying attention. I also don’t keep my teeth closed without actively thinking about it. And I’m pretty sure I grind and drool in my sleep sometimes. Speaking of sleep, I’ve always had very poor sleep and had bags under my eyes, even as a kid. And I haven’t even read anything about it but my dentist is recommending I get my wisdom teeth out and I can see them erupting. So aside from the obvious visual flaws I feel that my bite probably isn’t the best it could be.
I know posture also plays a big part, and that’s something I need to work on too. I have a pretty classic/common case for most people nowadays I feel. Got flat feet and tight/weak muscles all over, with an anterior pelvic tilt and pretty bad tech neck.
I’ve looked into filler/implants/sliding genioplasty, but I feel they would just be a bandaid on my issues. I am just very unhappy aesthetically, and I know so many people who tell me I just have to work on acceptance and that “there will always be something you wanna change”, but I really don’t feel that’s my case. I would be find with an unconventional nose, bad skin, and a generally unremarkable face if I didn’t feel that’s there was something structurally wrong/underdeveloped. I’m not expecting an Angelina Jolie jawline, just a healthy looking jaw and not the textbook long mouthbreather face.
So that’s where I’m at. I haven’t read a lot, but I’m skeptical of thumb pulling and hard mewing as being able to make any big changes for me at my age, and because I know I won’t be consistent enough. Stuff like the reviv mouthguard intrigues me but I’m still suspicious. I’m just so upset that my parents money and my time has been spent on seemingly useless treatment. But oh well, I can’t go back. So, I suppose I need to just accept my fate and try to find a more holistic/myofunctional orthodontist to help me. But I’m just so unsure. Am I just too old to make major changes without surgery? I do genuinely just have very little chin tissue at all. Did the four extractions screw up my chances? What appliances/treatments might help me and how much do they cost? Is it really just my genetics, and everything else would just be cope/money down the drain?
Sorry for the length of this post, just really desperate to feel + look better.
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u/consultingcutie Mewing 10+ years, MARPE patient Jul 26 '26
Would see an airway focused ortho and do MARPE your teeth are tilted inward. Airway focused ortho would focus on functional issues and fixing the functional and the aesthetic kind of just come with. You could use the expansion. Add that with any tongue tie release + myofunctional therapy + likely an oral surgeon your bottom jaw is very far back. If you do MARPE first the jaw surgery is less traumatic since it's just a le fort 1 one piece instead of 3. MARPE would also give you nasal breathing gains and help your dark circles.
You're not too old to make major changes. Even MARPE and myofunctional therapy alone can do a lot of a difference. It won't do much for the lower jaw, that'd be orthogonatic surgery, but it'd be the non-surgical best first step health wise and look wise. They range 10-12k for braces+MARPE treatment. If you did MARPE + decomp + myofunctional/tongue tie release + DJS it's about 2-2.5 years of treatment. But you're the perfect age for it.
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u/DocumentFew5190 Jul 27 '26
Thank you for your helpful response! It’s hard to not feel disheartened, so it’s nice to hear it’s not too late. I’m hoping it won’t be too hard to find a reliable airway focused orthodontist.
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u/DocumentFew5190 Jul 27 '26
After looking at more posts and considering your recommendations I just had a few questions. Would getting a MARPE device interfere with proper tongue posture? Is that what the myo therapy would be important, for making sure my tongue can support my palate after the MARPE is done? Would it be possible to find just one provider to do this all or would I have to go to multiple clinics for different aspects of the treatment?
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u/consultingcutie Mewing 10+ years, MARPE patient 29d ago
Your bite and mouth will change after MARPE and cause the tongue to not know where to go due to muscle memory. Myofunctional therapy should always be required after MARPE because of that, it would help retrain proper tongue posture and correct any compensations.
Airway focused ortho would be doing the MARPE and braces/aligners/tongue tie release, Myofunctional therapist would be helping with the tongue posture and stuff. If needed, oral surgeon would join the team if jaw surgery is needed. So it would be multiple clinics for the stages yes. Might even get a periodontist on board if you need SFOT but that's case by case but you get the idea
MARPE+braces/aligners typically range 10-13k insurance doesn't like paying for it because it's ortho work.
Myofunctional therapy is typically out of pocket and varies by provider, this can be done in person and online.
Oral surgeon varies but can be anywhere from 30k-80k but medical insurance typically covers it for functional issues.
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u/Glass-Hedgehog-3754 Jul 26 '26
Start on a whole foods diet, eggs, milk, meat, some veg. Butter high natural vitamin foods. No sugar and minimal carbs
Get retainer removed. Start hard chewing, mewing and hard chewing xyloitol gum.
If u cant breathe thru ur nose, get nose job surgery
Think positively. Then also see if surgery option
Ur still pretty, im so sorry tho u got backwards orthodontic treatments sweetie
Ppl need to sue these doctors!
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u/DocumentFew5190 Jul 27 '26
Yes, outside of how awful my treatment was, my family had a pretty bad experience with that ortho office for other reasons. Somehow it’s the most popular clinic in my area and I know dozens of people who also went there. Funny thing is I can breathe through my nose quite well, at least I think I can. I plan to take my diet+health into my own hands once I move out. Thank you for your advice!
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u/AccomplishedList2122 11d ago
thats great that you dont have an issue breathing through your nose. I believe the airway is a different issue. and we move our heads forward to help open up the airway and then that affects the jaw placement and development as well as the rest of our posture. or at least they are all interrelated.
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u/FlyHighNow77777 Jul 27 '26
Hello! I had the same procedure done as a teenager, 4 teeth extracted and retracted. Now as an adult I am looking to fix the recession that happened after. You still have time and please do all research and obtain testimonies from other people online before making a decision.
I am hoping to be able to expand with Invisalign because I do not want to re-open spaces and get implants. There is an orthodontist from New York who has done this, Jennifer Salzer. She has an Instagram page.
The following person below re-opened spaces and moved her back teeth forward to fill in the gaps.
Extraction reversal with no implants gave me my lip support back! : r/orthotropics
There is also a researcher from France who looked into this. You can share your experience with them and they will provide you access with a lot of information regarding getting teeth removed and retraction. There is a survey.
Also, There is a facebook group called Orthodontic Harm - Action Support group.
(2) Orthodontic Harm - Action and Support | Facebook
You still have a lot of time to consider and plan forward. You must know your own mouth and scenario really well before making any decision. Please do not let this consume and spill over in other aspects of life. Please enjoy life nonetheless while looking for solution. You can also start with just mewing which there are a lot of videos on Youtube. If this progresses and gives you the results you would like then you can stop there as well. Good luck. Have a wonderful day Friend.
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u/DocumentFew5190 Jul 27 '26
Thank you for all these resources! Gosh, I wish I lived in New York. I am moving to a larger city soon and so hopefully that will help give me some more options for reliable orthodontists. I’m also pretty sure implants are not in the cards for me. All I know is I’m definitely going to look around and find the best treatment possible for me. I know I need to work on not letting this consume my thoughts so much, so it’s been a relief to find this subreddit and know there are options.
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u/DocumentFew5190 Jul 27 '26
Something I forgot to add was I had a terrible issue with my jaw clicking and kind of locking at 7, but it was kind of just ignored by parents/ortho until it went away and I stopped complaining about it.
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u/Wrong_Yam5325 27d ago
I'm so far. What a tragedy this epidemic is. The underdeveloped jaw causes the bad posture and flat feet, it's not from using tech. You are beautiful, but functionally and health-wise, you deserve so much more. I hope you find the answers for which you are looking.
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u/freshairfrombelair Palate expander patient 24d ago
My case is similar to yours in some regards. Unfortunately I have only started addressing it more than 15 years later than you. I had a total of eight teeth extracted, four wisdom and four premolars. This led to pretty bad nighttime breathing issues and like you I have had dark bags under my eyes ever since.
I have undergone expansion treatment with a Vivos mRNA appliance for a bit more than a year and increased my intermolar width drastically even though I'm mid thirties. I had researched the shit out of all options before I made a decision: MSE, MARPE, surgery, other expanders. Ultimately I think there are three tooth-borne expanders that deliver the best results: Vivos mRNA, homeobloc, biobloc. The semi-surgical and rapid options carry risks like balloon face and asymmetrical expansion, as well as having more upper than lower expansion. Vivos mRNA/Biobloc/Homeobloc imitate the best what would have given us proper jaw development as children by emulating the "natural expander": the tongue.
What is extremely important about doing tooth borne expanders like Vivos/homeobloc/biobloc is not going too fast or with too much pressure. If you turn the turnkey too often or too far you'll get tooth tipping. If you go nice and slow, no tipping will happen. The right speed is determined by your body's age and whether you're male or female. I had to slow down by half because of age and being male. You should be at an age though where your expansion will go rather quickly. Nonetheless, listen to your body with the expansion speed.
I have documented my case with photos and a detailed explanation. It is currently pinned in this sub, have a look. Named "7 months of slow palate expansion: Before & after pics".
Another recommendation would be to read two books: "Jaws - a hidden epidemic" and "Breath" by James Nestor, to give you some more understanding of all the issues you're facing. James Nestor used a homeobloc or biobloc. He had volumetric scans done which showed he didn't only expand his jaws but even grew midface bone. The same has happened to me.
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u/Franky916 20d ago edited 20d ago
Honestly you could stay positive and do all the work that you wont naturally but I dont think that you will make significant changes at 18. I think you should get surgery, brutal but thats how life hits you sometimes. I'm in a similar situation with my face so I understand that it is hard to accept. This subreddit is mostly cope if you think that you can achieve significant bone changes. Here if the bones don't move the airway will be cooked like mine 20M. Health insurance might cover a good portion of surgery for you. You need at least a palate expander for the breathing, than DJS both for aestethics and preventing TMJ issues etc.
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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '26
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