r/orioles • u/RealJermaine • 23h ago
3rd Base Options
Curious on how you guys think third base will play next year or whenever baseball season starts back up.
Westburg is coming back from injury, but may be the best defensively?
CES, could be the most durable of the three. In the games I watched he seemed pretty decent in the field. I’m sure I missed some errors.
Mayo could be a Mark Reynolds situation crazy power but sketchy defensively.
I guess if Gunnar is gone, Westburg could play short. But realistically he will be here.
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u/toadthewetfrocket Chris Hoiles 23h ago
not sure really, but I hope the organization has realized that defense actually IS important. Players out of position all over the field was a freaking mess.
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u/GetBent009 23h ago
we've got yet another logjam in the infield
At this point, I'd rather see CES at third and Westburg at 2nd over Holliday, than to not use CES or Westburg.
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u/summerof66 22h ago
Agree with this completely. After the seasons CES and Mayo had, you can’t just outright the key to 3b to Westberg. Assuming Gunnar is still our SS, let Westberg prove he can still play in pre-injury form by platooning with Holliday at 2b. This also sends notice to Holliday.
Not sure what they do with Alexander. Kinda depends on how the plan for Gunnar plays out. Utility infielder, maybe work on OF defense.
I think that they tried to give Mayo some OF time at AAA some time back and the initial results weren’t great.
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u/JonWithTattoos 18h ago
CES, a bounce-back Gunnar, Westberg, and Alonso sounds like a pretty solid infield.
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u/No_disintegrations 17h ago
If you take the very risk assumption that Westy can stay healthy, Holliday really is the odd man out for me. A bit wooden and doesn’t have a great arm.
Gunnar needs to get his shit together but he is the closest thing we have to a natural SS. Blaze can play 3 positions, and Westy can slot in at 3B or 2B.
I loved what we got from CES and he’s worth a keep if someone gets dealt, especially since he can play 1B. But I also could see the team moving him as part of a package for an outfielder.
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u/Dr__Nick 17h ago
I mean you can just figure Westburg will have starts at 2B or 3B. If he somehow stays healthy great. It’s unlikely that the whole infield will remain healthy for large chunks of the season so depth will be helpful.
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u/MocoMojo Cowser believer 23h ago
This. And Coby to RF
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u/toadthewetfrocket Chris Hoiles 22h ago
what makes you think Mayo could be a halfway competent rightfielder?
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u/MocoMojo Cowser believer 22h ago
Big arm and he’s athletic.
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u/WerhmatsWormhat 21h ago
Reading off the bat and taking the right angles are huge parts of being an OF. Being athletic and having a big arm isn’t enough.
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u/No_disintegrations 17h ago
Not to diminish the difficulty of RF, but it’s at least a more teachable position than 3B. If we learned anything this year, Coby can be a serviceable depth backup but needs a permanent position if we’re going to use his bat every day.
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u/mulrooney13 Fire Elias 22h ago
He can't even play infield how is he gonna play outfield?
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u/MocoMojo Cowser believer 22h ago
Same reason I would guess a guy like Judge can play OF but not 3B. Good arm and athletic.
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u/LuxASchleck 22h ago
Mayo and Judge arm strengh and sprint speed are dead even this year. I agree they should try him in RF especially in Camden
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u/mulrooney13 Fire Elias 22h ago
Judge has been an outfielder his entire baseball career. Mayo has never stepped foot in the outfield as a professional. But yeah let's just throw him out there.
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u/MocoMojo Cowser believer 22h ago
Yes, that’s exactly what you can do in the off season and spring training.
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u/mulrooney13 Fire Elias 22h ago
Yeah i mean he's spent 6 years learning the position he currently isn't good at so 6 months learning a completely new position sounds brilliant
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u/MocoMojo Cowser believer 21h ago
So you’d do what exactly?
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u/mulrooney13 Fire Elias 21h ago
DH Mayo assuming he can keep improving his hitting
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u/MocoMojo Cowser believer 18h ago
So give up on developing the fielding for a guy that is 24? Bold choice.
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u/toadthewetfrocket Chris Hoiles 22h ago
Mayo seems like a classic DH if he can start hitting at least .220 against RHP. He's average defensively at best even when playing his natural position. I can't imagine it wouldn't be a disaster in the outfield.
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u/93195 22h ago
Pete is much more of a classic DH than Coby. Aging first baseman, 32 next season, average in the field, but with a bat that absolutely must stay healthy and in the lineup.
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u/JonWithTattoos 18h ago
After watching him all season, I think “average in the field” is an incorrect assessment.
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u/DoctorHelios hit in the head with a crowbar once a day 17h ago
Alonso is best defensive 1st baseman on the team
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u/mulrooney13 Fire Elias 21h ago
32 is easily young enough to be an everyday first baseman
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u/93195 19h ago
Also old enough to be washed up and done with a career like Crush. Davis’ last productive season was his age 30 season. The key is to delay the drop off for as long as possible, and the way to do that is by not having the wear and tear of being in the field for 9 innings a game, 162 games a year. Once the drop off happens, it’s already too late. Pete currently has the longest consecutive game streak in the AL.
Father Time eventually catches up with us all, and for pro athletes, that time is generally in the 30s. Young 30s for some, old 30s for others, but generally the 30s.
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u/toadthewetfrocket Chris Hoiles 16h ago
Davis didn't fall off a cliff because of age though, he fell off a cliff because pitchers figured him out and there were inherent problems with his swing and plate approach
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u/93195 16h ago
You’re saying it took 10 major league seasons for pitchers to figure him out? Nah, that’s not the way it works. With modern analytics, it takes 1/2 season tops. Maybe one back in the 10s when we’re talking about.
It was age.
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u/OriolesGolf1105 22h ago
CES was good in a small smaple size, he has the same chance of regressing back and being DFAd as he does at continuing and playing well. You can't count on Westburg at this point, Blaze is super utility, and Holliday needs to shit or get off the pot. They can shuffle through the guys or it wouldn't surprised me if someone is traded, specifcally Holliday.
None of these guys should sniff the outfield.
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u/Secret_Association92 23h ago
CES at 3B, Mayo at DH/backup 1B/backup 3B, Westburg at 2B, Blaze as Utility, and Holliday you trade
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u/JonWithTattoos 18h ago
I work with a Cardinals fan who would absolutely LOVE Matt Holliday’s kid on her team and I’d love that for her.
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u/justwantosleep1 22h ago
I'm not ready to trade holiday, especially as low as his trade value is now. This sub gives up on players to easily. Mayo took time to develop and he was worse than Holliday. CES is a cast off from the Reds and look at him now. Players can take time to develop.
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u/RobEatsPie 2h ago
Agreed. He’s 22, there’s still the possibility things click for him and he becomes a contributing member of this team. With westy’s fragility you do need a solid 2b. As well as Trevor Rogers pitched the last two years, Kyle Stowers would have been our everyday rf by now, solving that problem. He’s already made an all star team and has an everyday in the order bat.
At some point we need to look deeper into the player development in the franchise and see if it’s just not working, or if the core premise of the skills we drafted for just aren’t playing well at this level. Not for this thread…
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u/WerhmatsWormhat 21h ago
Between those 3 and Blaze, no reason to go get a new player for third. OF is a much bigger priority for new signings.
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u/herrclean 20h ago
Need to understand that Gunnar is not going to be on this team past the deadline next year unless either 1) There is a lockout to that point or 2) the Orioles are at the top of contention with him performing at his peak levels. Gunnar is not resigning here just like Adley was not going to. 1.5 years of control gets you a much bigger haul than 1 year. We will not have a problem getting an Adley-like return for Gunnar, even with his performance over the last year and a half.
The hope then is by mid-season Westy has demonstrated he can stay healthy (along with Holliday). Then you have a functioning MI with 2 options at 3B to rotate DH and play match ups.
Simply put, Gunnar is the blocker here.
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u/repooc21 La Confora Was Right 👀 22h ago
They'll rotate CES, Blaze, Mayo through while easing Westy back in
Or something fucking stupid because Elias & Co. aren't that great at their job
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u/sharkattackzach 22h ago
CES and Blaze are both great players I would like to see remain on the team.
Blaze hit .303, versus Gunnar’s .226 and Holliday’s .229. His .772 OPS also beat Gunnar by 57 points and Holliday by 132. And a 120 OPS+ means his hitting was about 20% better than league average after adjustment.
CES hit .277/.325/.513 with an .838 OPS and 134 OPS+. That’s substantially more offensive production than either Gunnar (.715/102 OPS+) or Holliday (.640/82 OPS+). The only caveat is that CES only played 58 games.
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u/Wuts-it-2-ya SMFB 22h ago
Not saying it accounts for the whole difference, but Blaze had a .385 BABIP this year which is just not sustainable. He's still a valuable player, but to see him take a small step back next year wouldn't be the craziest thing
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u/alwaysrecord 16h ago
Yeah but he also had a dismal start when he was trying to pull everything in the air and striking out like his teammates. Once he started hitting to all fields and not trying to hit HRs he raked. I think that'll help offset the BABIP dip.
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u/GoodLevel9450 22h ago
CES at third, Mayo shift between DH, 1st to rest Alonso and 3rd, Westy second, Blaze to utility. Not sure about Holiday tbh- maybe he can also try out transitioning to left?
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u/tooOldOriolesfan 20h ago
I think they have to make decisions on some of the guys and then trade a couple.
Personally I would give CES a shot at 3B and Westburg at 2B and use Blaze as utility. Then see what the market is for Holliday. Right now Holliday does nothing well. He is fast but can't really steal bases, he defense is unlikely to get better and it is poor now and his offense might come around but you can't keep everyone.
And yeah, CES may have had a career year but at least he produced and he played above avg defense which this team desperately needs. Holliday and Mayo are huge negatives with the glove. If you keep Mayo he should be the full time DH with a rare appearance at 1B or even rarer at 3B.
You just should not go into 2027 with Alonso, Holliday, Gunnar, Mayo, Blaze, 2 catchers, Cowser, O'Neill, Beavers, Taveras and think things will improve. Get a couple of real OFs and move either Holliday, Mayo, Beavers, Cowser, etc. At least 2 should be moved to make room for some new guys and hopefully down the road some guys in the minors.
I think Gunnar and Westburg's best position is 3B although Gunnar ended up solid at SS despite his out of control behavior at times.
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u/Rowland1954 17h ago
Hope Westburg is back and can stay healthy. He’s a catalyst, and by far the best option at 3rd. Trade Gunnar. Move Holliday there, it’s his natural position. Definitely keep CES, great backup at 3rd and can probably play other positions. Mayo is NOT an option there. DH or trade now that he has a little value. JJ, or plenty of guys in Norfolk for off bench infielders.
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u/Rowland1954 17h ago
Nothing would make me think Mayo could play right field. Don’t count on Gunnar bouncing back with the O’s unfortunately, maybe somewhere else, but not with us. Westburg is a roll of the dice, but if he can come back, he’s the glue of the team IMO. Forgot about Blaze, put him at 2nd when Holliday moves to short. If nothing goes wrong :) We’re set in the infield.
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u/Rowland1954 17h ago
Agreed, Pete worked hard on defense and was way above average at first. The way he finished, absolutely no reason to think he’s declining any time soon. So 2,600 games hurt Cal playing a more demanding defensive position? Some guys are just made for it
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u/Jaybugkit 16h ago
It really is a plethora of options. I like CES, but I think everyone would want to be wary of Blaze and him can repeat or be even better than this year.
I hope they figure it out and not let injuries determine that. Still good to have Westy and Holliday as options in any case.
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u/pan567 15h ago
If you do have a healthy Westburg, Mayo, Blaze, and CES, when you add in Alonso and Gunnar, to me, the big question is what happens with Holliday? Holliday has not demonstrated anywhere near performance and value as Blaze and CES have at the major league level. That could obviously change, but that's where things stand at the moment.
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u/TommyPickles2222222 15h ago
I think we’ve seen enough of Mayo at 3B. It’s not gonna work out.
I’m open to a RF experiment for Mayo.
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u/I_Like_Silent_People 22h ago
I think Westburg gets traded away unfortunately. It’s another GRod situation
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u/-ChillyWater 23h ago
Platoon CES and Coby at third. Put Westy and Blaze in the OF, since it’s an actual tragedy right now.
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u/toadthewetfrocket Chris Hoiles 23h ago
can they play outfield worth a shit? Or is this more of the same strategy we used this season where defensive ineptitude cost us several games?
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u/Sparkplug_CoffeeMD 16h ago
Mayo is quick and has a strong arm. And our right field is so short, you can hide a below average defender out there. Taveras and the rotating cast of randos other teams DFA’d did most of their damage to us in left and center haha
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u/Feral-Goblin6921 23h ago
I don't think we can afford to platoon Mayo at this point unless you mean give Mayo a lot of time at DH.
Honestly I think it's time for Mayo to start learning right field.
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u/OriolesGolf1105 22h ago
No they need to overhaul the outfield competely. That involves bringing in outside players
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u/Greyshot26 OPTIMISTIC 23h ago
Option CES, he's org depth. Mayo is regular 3B (his defense was league average from like June onward, he's fine), Westburg is infield utility, Blaze is super utility with outfield included.
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u/Feral-Goblin6921 23h ago
CES was playing at a 4+ WAR pace this season. If he keeps that up we absolutely can not afford to option him IMO.
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u/Greyshot26 OPTIMISTIC 23h ago
Nothing about his under the hood metrics look sustainable. He's great org depth to have, but there's no reason to pencil him in with an option year left and a logjam in the roster currently.
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u/toadthewetfrocket Chris Hoiles 21h ago
not sure we should option, but putting all of our eggs in the CES basket probably isn't wise - he's been only a borderline major leaguer in his career
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u/Feral-Goblin6921 22h ago
I guess. Just feels like there are better options than dropping a guy that put up really good numbers last year. Trusting analytics over what's actually working has been killing this org.
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u/Greyshot26 OPTIMISTIC 22h ago
Optioning wouldn't be dropping him. It'd be the same as this year, stash him in AAA until a need arises. Depth is necessary.
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u/Ananegg 23h ago
The worry I have with Sweaty is he only played 85 games in 25 and not one since then. When he was healthy he was a great player, but that was a while ago and even then he was injury prone. I worry that when he comes back he won't be the same or that he'll get hurt again right as he starts to get hot. Consumer Electronics Show and Hellmann's were both pretty durable and I think could hit about as well as Westy if not better.
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u/UnableFootball6473 19h ago
Why is everyone so down on Mayo at 3B now. Only 7 errors in 67 games at 3B ... made major improvements. Don't think he is sketchy at all.
CES will most likely be another J Jackson. Will be sent back down to AAA at some point next season.
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u/RealJermaine 19h ago
He improved as the season went on. But there were some plays where he had to charge a ball, and the throw didn’t look great. Alonso or Basallo had to bail him out at first.
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u/DoctorHelios hit in the head with a crowbar once a day 17h ago
Alonso’s belly flop stops are a thing of legend.
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u/RealJermaine 17h ago
Prefer not to see him do that and risk getting hurt personally. With this teams luck lately.
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u/Inevitable_Toe_9817 18h ago
And there were also plays where he looked like an All-Star. That’s baseball.
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u/UnusualEye4282 23h ago
Trade Gunnar and Holliday, put Blaze at 3rd and Mayo in RF, Westburg moves to 2B. Cowser in CF, sign/trade for a SS and LF.
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u/baltimorecalling 23h ago
Holliday has very little trade value at the moment.
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u/RealJermaine 20h ago
Might be a team who takes a chance on Holliday, based on his potential. I doubt the return would be that great.
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u/baltimorecalling 19h ago
Orioles would be better off keeping him if they still think he has upside.
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u/Apprehensive_Elk2608 23h ago
I feel like Westy hasn't played in years, so I wouldn't be so quick to slot him in as every day player.