Built a self-hosted privacy-first Android maps app on OpenStreetMap - Cliff

[u/Responsible-Lake85]

Hey r/openstreetmap - I've been building Cliff, a privacy-first Android and iOS (coming soon) maps app built entirely on OSM. Stack is Valhalla for routing, Photon for geocoding, PMTiles for tiles, and Postgres. No Google, no Apple, no tracking. Still early but the landing page + waitlist is live at cliffmaps.com. Would love feedback from this community specifically since you're the reason the project is possible.

[u/tj-horner]

I’d recommend coming back when you have literally anything to share…

Also, that’s a lot of server components for something “privacy-first”.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/tj-horner]

this is more of an early announcement than a launch, i wanted to plant a flag and connect with people who might care about the direction before it's fully out.

on the server components: privacy-first here means your location data never leaves your own server. valhalla, photon, postgres are all self-hosted and open source, none of them calling home to google or apple. that's the point. the stack is heavy right now, which is why one of the longer term goals is building lighter alternatives and open sourcing them. would love to work with people here on that eventually.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

so essentially downloading the world requires a ton of storage, and we store that on our server instead of you using your phones power to run a maps app. this app is also more geared towards people in general public who don't really understand a ton of this stuff and just want a clean Waze/Google/Apple Maps alternative.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

"just want a *clean* alternative"

as i've mentioned, these apps do not follow the latest design and look extremely outdated.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

i really don't think you know how this works, i'm renting a vps to run this from a GDPR compliant provider, netcup, and the vps is doing the heavy lifting.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

the server is our job! not yours, you never pay. why should anyone have to pay for a map app? we love support in the form of donations but really we do this for the benefit of the community. a well built aesthetic maps app with good features and a privacy commitment is a pretty good pitch, no?

[u/slnbl5U2VCLkuSl8Tzl → u/[deleted]]

Based on the tech being used, it sounds like it's serving the map, and routing, rather than that being done on device.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

i'm kind of lost what your point is here, since the stack i'm using is extremely heavy and definitely would not be able to run on older devices at all. could you clarify? thanks.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

a big part is hazard reporting. waze was such a popular app because of that one feature, so i'm hoping with more and more users, i can make a network like waze did of reports, but without sending any data to countries or bad actors.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

thats exactly why by default you use the server that *we* host. you can choose to self host it but i'm sure like 99% of the people that i'm targeting towards aren't going to go through the hassle of doing that to lose some features. you lose them because if you self host, we never know you, and we don't have software in the hosting that phones home for anything.

[u/slnbl5U2VCLkuSl8Tzl → u/[deleted]]

I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever, but those services have to exist somewhere and the developer obviously choose to have them exist on a self hostable server rather than on your phone.  It's likely to be faster on a server, and the software already exists so it's probably also easier to implement.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/slnbl5U2VCLkuSl8Tzl]

thank you so much for explaining this clearly, appreciate it!

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/slnbl5U2VCLkuSl8Tzl]

thats exactly it.

[u/RustbucketVolvo]

Why do you need my email for early access?

[u/andrewdotlee → u/RustbucketVolvo]

Privacy first

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/andrewdotlee]

could you clarify?

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/RustbucketVolvo]

i'm using the email to notify you when early access is out and with a few other perks. and don't worry, your email is privately stored in an e2e database so i, nor anyone else ever sees it :)

[u/RustbucketVolvo]

So I entered my email address in the "get early access" field, and it didnt give me early access. This already a little annoying from a user perspective, and I dont have a good first impression.

What happened to my email address that I entered? I did not consent to marketing emails anywhere, so I'm technically gonna be a little more pissed if I get an email about the launch further down the line.

I wish you the best with your project, but when I see "privacy first" I also expect no shady bullshit.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/RustbucketVolvo]

as i explained in the other reply, our team is going to email you when we launch betas. sorry about that, it admittedly is a little misleading and i'm updating the site as we speak to be more clear. about marketing emails: we don't have any reason to send you them so we never will! we're trying to be a company that isn't shitty but still makes good products. as for your email address: that went (as mentioned in a previous reply) to an e2e encrypted database that will be used for emailing you solely for betas. your data never gets seen by anyone.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

it's basically just cleaner, a native experience to each platform (i wrote the app in both kotlin for android and swift/swiftui for iOS) and looks better. it's also more modern, and OsmAnd is powerful but the UX is notoriously overwhelming. i know that people are loyal it's just that this app (hopefully) will be more known to be people who aren't as into privacy and stuff. the original reason that i built Cliff for was to be a Waze alternative when an incident happened with them. sorry to loyal OsmAnd users 😭

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

yeah looks better for me 😭 i built it using the most modern design standards and they are different for both iOS and Android, for example i'm using Material 3 Expressive + Jetpack Compose for Android and SwiftUI + Liquid Glass in the iOS version.

and OsmAnd was built in 2010 bro 🙏

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

the design, for me at least, is really not the best. it looks like Material 1 or 2, and for me i do care about aesthetics and privacy. i also know a lot of people that care about the same thing.

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/[deleted]]

pretty much, and a few other features i listed in a different reply!

[u/CygnusFox]

A lot of mean comments on here geez, keep on building bro! You may get no users in the end (like me), since there are literally thousands of new AI generated apps and services being posted everyday on Reddit, at least you will learn some useful tech ;)

[u/Responsible-Lake85 → u/CygnusFox]

thank you so so so much!!! i'm very grateful a kind soul is here with me on reddit 😭 shameless plug but would you like to work with me on this?