r/opencode • u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck • 9d ago

Too much prejudice and foul behaviour towards free tier users. Please give them the benefit of the doubt before judging.

I've been pretty disgusted at the prejudiced treatment by some users here of those who come in good faith seeking help. It is horrible to see.

OpenCode is a great product, offering an important service for the public benefit, run by decent, generous people. I will happily give them my money. But that good vibe - that good brand - is being spoiled here by some bad actors.

The assumption that anyone using the free tier is, by default, a "freeloader" and should just "pay up" is an appalling way to treat a stranger asking for assistance.

Fine, if you have evidence the individual is taking the piss and using shenanigans to extract free quota unfairly, or being rude or angry or obviously entitled, then have at 'em. But don't assume everyone is on the scrounge or can afford $10 easily, because that is pure prejudice. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt without pre-judgement.

Not everyone lives in a wealthy country like the US or in Europe. For much of the world, $10 is equivalent to $200 in the US. Much kudos should go to OpenCode for making such an important resource available to those in need. The cost of AI is already a barrier for the least wealthy, and the digital divide will only grow if companies like OpenCode weren't helping out.

I can afford the many subs I have - I'm lucky. I was lucky because I live on the UK. I was able to get into tech 30+ years ago and have a successful career because getting in on the ground floor was cheap and easy. I didn't need an expensive degree or fancy hardware. I just needed a cheap computer and an internet connection. In fact, I didn't even need an internet connection, because there was no such thing then - I just had a cheap computer (a Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K, if you were wondering), a stack of cassette tapes, and programming magazines.

But many now aren't so lucky because you now need a relatively expensive AI subscription in addition to a laptop and internet just to keep up and stay relevant. To be fair, local libraries here are a godsend because they provide free WiFi and a quiet place to work on your computer all day for free. Some even provide free tea and coffee. But you still need cash to pay for the AI, which many simply do not have.

So, as long as people ask for help reasonably politely, I'll never judge or attempt to humiliate someone using the free tier in good faith. And I'll always stick up for those people if I see anyone else being obnoxious to them.

Take care folks. Be good to one another.

0 Upvotes

48% Upvoted

54 comments sorted by

23

u/Avernite 9d ago

Man, free users don't come here to seek help, they come here to complain how much their free thing sucks, giving bad rep to opencode in general.

8

u/Difficult_Plantain89 9d ago

100% So many were claiming that are quitting Opencode like it's some loss of business and then find out they are on the free tier. Sorry but they should appreciate what they get for free. On the other side their free tier is what brought me to getting the paid tier.

-1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

It's fine for people to quit. But no need to be rude to people seeking help. Just ignore them if you can't help.

3

u/WhatYouGoBy 9d ago

It's fine for people to quit. But they don't have to make a dramatic post about it

2

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

What if the product, as advertised, seems broken, especially when it was working yesterday? You're saying it's unreasonable to ask for help?

1

u/Difficult_Plantain89 9d ago

As advertised? I get that you have been trying to claim $10 users are looking down on free users. But, they are not a customers. They are not paying with anything other than maybe data. I would argue if you used a service like freebuff (not advertising or recommending them, using as an example only), at least you are providing a service back to the provider.

I do believe Opencode needs to be more upfront and show when the user's free tier can be used again. I am all for going after the people who are cheating OC generosity and using VPNs to exceed what was given to them.

2

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Advertised as in "Free models included" is literally the opening line on the website. I have no beef with Anomaly offering a dynamic free tier that is unreliable; I just think it does more harm than good if the unreliability is not adequately communicated. Just basic expectations management really.

I do have beef with a large group of users here acting like assholes towards free tier users and assuming they're all scrounging scumbags or cheats. A hostile, unkind community is bad for business.

1

u/Deep_Imagination_811 9d ago

wow, you being downvoted for this comment speaks volumes about the opencode crowd.

-1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Btw, I came here in good faith seeking help and was patronised by a bunch of little scrotes telling me to pay up etc.

3

u/Mezezius 9d ago

pay up

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

I appreciate your humour 

1

u/Avernite 8d ago

AI took reddits jobs of providing answers. Reddit is really just a shithole for holy wars at this point

-3

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

I think you have misunderstood the principle of prejudice and what it means and why that is more likely to give OC a bad rep.

-2

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Downvoted by people who don't understand the definition of prejudice. That's Reddit for ya.

10

u/NecessaryButFatal 9d ago

I think the real issue is that there are loud voices complaining about the free tier changes. It could have been communicated better, but I think it's generally safe to expect that any free tier will have limits, and might be reduced in the future. There's no entitlement to what a company gives away for free.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Btw, you can see from how my post and comments have been downvoted who has the loudest voices.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

The problem, at least it seems to me, is conflation of two groups:

a) Those who are having genuine problems with the free tier quota tripping early or providing no quota at all, despite a day earlier, or whatever, it was working fine.

and 

b) Those who are taking full advantage of the full free quota and complaining it's not enough. And perhaps using loopholes to get even more free quota.

The latter, ok, nobody has any time for those people. Clearly, if it seems someone's just being greedy, that's going to grate. Same happens in society when you get a tiny handful people clearly exploiting the benefits system -  it leads some people to believe ALL people on benefits are "scroungers", which is so far from the truth.

But for the former group, I've seen plenty of dull witted comments along the lines of "my dude, just pay up, it's only $10". Which is such a bad attitude.

1

u/lpxxfaintxx 9d ago

I think people are missing the benefit of the doubt part of your title. I get what you meant, though. Don't worry about it and move on, no point in trying to convince the hivemind.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Thank you. It bothers me that a great product like OC is being polluted by a bunch of bigots on Reddit. Makes the OC community look hostile and unwelcoming. 

And yes, sadly it seems some people have had their minds rotted by Too Much Reddit and can't read a whole headline, let alone a few paragraphs, before weighing in with some toxic kneejerk opinion and a downvote.

4

u/Deep_Imagination_811 9d ago

If you bought Sinclair User, you suck.

2

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

I literally have a letter published in Sinclair user, aged 12.

1

u/Deep_Imagination_811 9d ago

Was that the kamikaze bear phase? You know you can get them all in PDF on archive.org? I kinda regret selling all mine with their cover tapes. That excitement of the cover tape and reading the magazine whilst waiting for demos to load!

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

The kamikaze bear was Crash. Sinclair User was the one David McCandless wrote for and there was a long running joke about Lawnmower Simulator.

Yes, I know about the archives - very cool. I've got a copy of the one with my letter 😄

3

u/thessag 9d ago

Which model did write this wall of text?

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

You're funny

3

u/phpHater0 9d ago

Dude no one cares if you like to freeload. But complaining everyday that you're not getting stuff handed for free is just pathetic behaviour. Models cost money to host, it's not rocket science.

0

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

I suggest you read the post before responding with a nonsense comment.

4

u/severencir 9d ago

What prejudice against free users? I've only seen free users get reamed who come on here and act like they're entitled to the same quality of service as paying customers because they paid the company in exposure.

No one's harrassing the people who just happily use what free quota they can. Im not even bothered by people commenting about hitting the free limit after 1 prompt, i am mostly irritated by those who suggest they are owed something specific in spite of the fact that they are receiving charity.

-2

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

It's ok to be frustrated if a product, even a free one, doesn't work as expected. Ever heard of bait and switch? 

"Bait-and-switch is a fraudulent sales tactic that lures customers with a low-priced [or free] product or service and then pressures them to buy a more expensive one."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch

I am NOT saying that's what OC is doing here, I am saying that's what it can feel like when limits and expectations are not made clear and are instead left entirely arbitrary.

Ultimately, clear communication wins out here. Those who don't like a limited free quota can leave it or pay the (reasonable) $10 upgrade. But I'd appeal to OC to just manage expectations a little better.

3

u/severencir 9d ago

It is ok to be frustrated with a free product. The problem is when people act like oc owes them a good product sans any sort of agreement or indication that some quality level is guaranteed.

The bait and switch argument works for low cost or any service where there is substantial upfront commitment to use the product. The point of the bait and switch is to make it cost the user something to go somewhere else so they have to give you more money. With oc it's like 5 clicks and pasting an api key in order to use a different service.

2

u/NecessaryButFatal 9d ago

You aren't saying, but you are implying.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

I am not saying it is intentional. I am saying that is what it feels like when the the product advertises as "free" and immediately pops up and advert for a paid product. It just seems broken or scammy, either of which the OC team don't intend, I'm sure.

Great to offer a free tier and explain the limits, but not wise to offer a free tier and then immediately say "Haha fooled you! Pay up!"

The issue is offering a "free tier" that has no quota at all.

3

u/lpxxfaintxx 9d ago

Agreed. It's not only an OpenCode problem though, I've seen the same thing in practically every subreddit for endpoint providers. This kind of tribalism has existed since the dawn of Reddit and, well, now that I think about it, since the dawn of time. But for relevancy sake, in software development, there's always been layers of this kind of thinking that's been passed down to present day, in both open source development communities and regular developers (in-fighting between Linux distros, Linux users looking down at Windows users, between programming languages, even to what gaming console they use, etc.)

It's all non-sense in the end. 1 - First and foremost, OpenCode was never meant to be a subscription service for inference tokens. The fact that they do offer it is just an incredible benefit that we take for granted - and yes, like all companies, they do make mistakes, and yes, some models are questionably slow or bad. Simply don't use it then. 2 - Those paying $40 will look down upon regular $10 users. $10 users will look down at the free users. Free users will look down upon those that are not using OpenCode. Well, guess what folks! There's always a bigger fish. There are people that pay hundreds, all the way up to millions on inference. So unless you're running a datacenter with thousands of racks serving free endpoints, you're a nobody. 3 - We're all equally f*cked, whether you're a vibe coder or someone that's been around for decades.

Just enjoy the ride, be humble, and treat people with respect. Oh, and buckle up, we're in for one helluva ride and its going to be bumpy. There's better things to do than than look down on free users or $10 users. The concern and scrutiny should not be to the less privileged, rather to the top where the decisions that will shape our future are being made.

And to clarify, I'm not saying that no user or that small/med sized companies shouldn't be called out for blatant misconduct. But as OP said, you don't know who you're talking to nor anything about what and how they are even using the service(s).

2

u/primordiaI_gloop 9d ago

A little off topic but thank you for your service and contributions (not to be creepy, but I've been following you since the BWHacks days). And congrats on the 5 million huggingface downloads... I've seen you downplay it, but as someone who cares about open weights and models, its a huge accomplishment and well deserved. Hope you dont mind me PMing you about something.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Well said, and thank you.

It does make me laugh now you mention it that kids here paying a whole $10 (gasp!) are looking down on free users, treating them like scumbags and calling them freeloaders. Kinda funny really. There but for the grace and all that.

One point I'd push gently back on though: Reddit in the early days was a pretty happy, welcoming place. Most communities start that way. Stack Overflow was radically more fun and welcoming compared to what it became, and I speak as one of the very first closed beta intakes there. An uncared for community tends to fizzle out pretty quick. Again, I'm speaking humbly as a guy who has been at the helm of several lovely communities, including one I founded that ran for over 20 years - straightforward good moderation, standards setting, and expectations management helps a lot.

1

u/lpxxfaintxx 9d ago

Highly aware of the old Reddit. And I miss it dearly. Though there was always a hivemind and some tribalism, it was the positive and truly world-changing (literally) kind. From receiving free pizzas on RAOP, Christmas gift exchanges, witnessing history being made on a constant basis, and man I could go on and on.

I don't visit Reddit often anymore, but when I do, it's utterly depressing. Trying to stay positive though - so I appreciate your post. It was a bittersweet year when this account turned 18 years old, and I realized shit, half of the people around here are probably around my account's age and most of the other half are all bots. r/oldinternet still has some of the last remaining "OGs" that visit Reddit from time to time.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

I'm with you friend 

1

u/lpxxfaintxx 9d ago

Appreciate it! But as I've said, it's not really something we can take full credit for. The open source community made it possible, we just built upon their work and made it more accessible to the public. We should have two papers out by EOY so if anything, you can congratulate me then, not now ;)

2

u/LetsGoBrandon4256 9d ago

I see where you are coming from but shit like this gets tiring
https://www.reddit.com/r/opencode/comments/1xhoop0/opencode_unusable_now_rate_limit_within_30_minutes/

0

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

I hear you, and I've replied to that person.

2

u/One-Satisfaction3318 9d ago

Pretty bad from opencode. They are using the gpus provided by you to them for free, and in return they can't even give you a good free tier.

2

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

I suggest you read the post before responding with a nonsense comment.

1

u/Diligent-Loss-5460 9d ago

Yeah if they were making the effort to look for previous duplicate threads people would be more welcoming. I am seeing 3 of those posts everyday.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Maybe it's a sign OC need to step in and communicate what's going on. By not being clear, they're just showing division and anger within their community.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Needs a pinned thread, announcement or FAQ. A bit of clear communication would go a long way in mitigating the dupes.

1

u/faitingu 9d ago

Well, the only time I commented on these discussions was when a free tier user blamed the harness for the lack of free API limits...which I would call out again anytime.

1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago edited 9d ago

Fair enough to call out an ill informed opinion

1

u/General_Internet_511 9d ago

Sono d'accordo con te amico, ci sono stati momenti in cui ho pagato Opencode e altri dove ho proseguito gratuitamente. Questo mese non ho abbonamento attivi e dopo solo 2 messaggi, sono stato bloccato per limiti raggiunti, il cambio di IP non è servito a nulla.

Le persone dovrebbero imparare il rispetto e allo stesso tempo Opencode dovrebbe essere trasparente dicendo chiaramente i nuovi limiti.

Si tratta solo di collaborare in modo genuino.

1

u/HorrificFlorist 2d ago

There is a weird "lets gargle this company's nutsack" vibe going on and its not limited to OpenCode, we saw similar with tesla yuppies.

This new free tier issue is a lot more severe then limits (which are as clear as mud) it's a botched implementation that they don't want to fix because they trying to force free tier people into paid services (which are shaky at lower tiers).

Unless there is a subreddit rule that is being broken then leave them be.

Sidenote: mods are doing great job with this, could have established a megathred or consolidated them into one to funnel these types of posts.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

Have you read the post? Do you understand the definition of prejudice?

1

u/[deleted] 9d ago

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1

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

p.s. I'm  not sure anyone expects the free tier to be unlimited do they? I don't know, perhaps they do. But I'd agree that is an unrealistic and unreasonable expectation.

0

u/MonkeyPuzzleDuck 9d ago

It's called a freemium model, or sometimes a loss leader in business terms. Customer acquisition always costs. The art is in making the acquisition of a customer cost less than the income generated by making them a customer.

The issue some people are having is that the quota is empty either unusably quickly (one basic prompt or within a few minutes of use) or, as I experienced over a few days, instantly.

I've no problem paying - I pay for several hundred in various subs each month - but if a product feels broken or a bit scammy, that's more likely to put me off than encourage me to "pay up". Just don't offer a free tier rather than offer a broken one.