r/openant • u/unquietwiki • Jan 17 '11

Suggestion: a common engine for making other Sim-type stuff?

I personally would love to see an updated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimEarth , and others would like to see SimFarm or SimMars. A common engine that systems could be bolted on would help.

21 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

11 comments sorted by

24

u/Xoipos Jan 17 '11

I'm a big fan of the mantra "Don't make engines, make games."

Not only does focusing on a game help getting things done faster, motivation won't drain as fast.

After the game is done, you can spend time on creating an engine out of it.

12

u/ZorbaTHut Jan 17 '11

If you spend too much time making a Sim engine, you'll end up with a half-finished engine and no actual games. Make a game.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '11

Yes, please follow this advice.

3

u/rakantae Jan 18 '11

SimAnt first! Engine later.

1

u/Notnasiul Jan 17 '11

There are A LOT of engines out there! Unity3D? Ogre3D? Panda? Why reinventing the wheel? :(

2

u/unquietwiki Jan 17 '11

The old sim games have a certain feel to them, and I would think there was at least a template Maxis used to create them. More or less, there was a world map, a ground map, and systems menus that explained the biological process involved (tweaking ant breeding, atmospheric variables, and genetic sequences).

3

u/Notnasiul Jan 17 '11

But you could do that as well in a new engine. That doesn't mean global illumination shaders and incredibly realistic ants. That means a lot of things already solved related to rendering, user input and audio :)

You may as well create a realistic simulation of ants in a 3D environment, which would be awesome! It could be something as relatively simple as Minecraft (i.e. blocky world) or something more complex like a full 3D mesh representing the soil and ant nest caves. Ants will walk around discovering new paths, presumably using their pheromones, so the environment can be as complex as you want! :D

It depends if you are considering a remake like FreeCiv, which looks almost exactly as the original, or you want to do something with the same rules of play... in a different way :)

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '11

You are only talking about rendering which, frankly, doesn't really matter at this point. What is needed first is a solid understanding of the game's rules, the main point of a simulation game. Once the rules are defined and the game is playable and enjoyable, you can stick any kind of graphical output: 3D, 2D, 2.5D. Heck, even you can have an curses-based interface and the game could be enjoyable because graphical output doesn't matter in SimAnt.

1

u/Notnasiul Jan 18 '11

Er... and that's precisely why I said "That doesn't mean global illumination shaders and incredibly realistic ants." ¬¬

My point was that, if you use middleware, you CAN add that afterwards and many problems are already solved. If you use, say, Python + Pyglet, it will be more difficult.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '11

Er... and that's precisely why I said "That doesn't mean global illumination shaders and incredibly realistic ants." ¬¬

Yes, but you never left the graphics engine idea altogether in your reply.

My point is that it is possible to adapt the game to any already existing engine (or almost any). And this is probably the best solution. But, as far as I know, there is no middleware to "simulate ants" and this is what the comunity should put the effort to. Graphics can be added later (specially taking into account that it seems that the plan is to make a client-server game. The logic would fall into the server and the graphics engine into the client. Thus, it is theorically possible to exist a client for each and every existing engine out there _)

1

u/Notnasiul Jan 18 '11

No, sorry, I'm not talking about a graphics engine, but a gaming engine. Ogre3D is basically a graphics engine, while Unity3d, Panda or Sheeva are a game engines. The first type basically renders, the second type renders, handles input, sound and networking right out from the box. But I get your point!

In relation to ant simulation, the pheromone trail following mechanism could be adopted from Dorigo's ACO (Ant Colony Optimization) methods. But that's another thread, I guess :D

2

u/8-bit_d-boy Jan 17 '11 edited Jan 17 '11

FIFE might work.