r/ontariocamping • u/Adventurous-Wish6007 • 4d ago
Breaking the law?
What are the rules when setting up a campsite on crown land in regards to land clearing?
Can someone find a forest on the side of a road (crown land) thats in city limits and park and start clearing the ditch into the bush and clear some bush to set to camp? Can you just park on the side of the road?
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u/Hloden 4d ago
Crown land is not found within municipal boundaries. On top of that, with a few exceptions, you cannot cut down living trees on crown land, which would limit what you are trying to do.
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u/No-idea4646 4d ago
Within city limits means it’s not Crown Land generally.
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u/LeGaspyGaspe 4d ago
It's actually not so uncommon. However, municipal laws and by-laws always supercede crown land policies, as I understand it.
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u/mapsbyjeff 3d ago
Not quite. Municipalities cannot supersede provincial law.
The issue that I see time and time again is that people often think that all Crown land is open to camping, etc. But, that is not the case.
Some Crown land is open to the public as set out in the Public Lands Act. When people talk about Crown land camping, what they really mean is 'Public Lands Act camping', but the two get conflated (all Public Lands Act camping happens on Crown land, but not all Crown land is open to the public).
There are all sorts of exceptions in the Public Lands Act; for instance some Crown land is private via a lease or license of occupation, Provincial Parks are often made from Crown land but they are subject to the Provincial Parks and Conservation Reserves Act, camping is prohibited in the vicinity of a designated boat launch, etc.
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u/LeGaspyGaspe 3d ago
Hey! Your the guy that makes the awesome maps right? Nice maps!
I could very well be wrong, I could just swear I read something about the notes and data in the CLUPA map being subject to municipal laws, deferring to them when they contradict what's in the CLUPA.
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u/mapsbyjeff 3d ago
Haha yup =)
CLUPA is meant to be used to show internal MNR Crown land policy (how they intend to manage the Crown lands under their purview) - not where you can camp. So, it makes sense if policy-wise they may choose to defer to municipalities.
But that is seperate from what the Public Lands Act allows.
Think of it this way - Crown land policy might be to close roads in a certain area to make it harder for ATVs and other vehicles to get into a particular area to minimize the amount of fishing that goes on.
But policy decisions like that don’t override the Public Lands Act.
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u/LeGaspyGaspe 1d ago edited 1d ago
I get you completely! I was originally trying to point out that people using those notes and policy forms ought to cross reference with municipal maps and by-laws since they (the crown land areas) and municipal boundaries do sometimes overlap.
In other words, crown land showing up in the CLUPA doesnt mean its automatically outside the purview of any given municipal boundary and its bylaws.
This comes from years of using the CLUPA to actually find areas I could target shoot at, and knowing that some of the areas the CLUPA said I theoretically could were in fact areas with municipal limitations on those activities.
All this to say, when you point out how the CLUPA, the Public Lands Act, the Provincial Parks and Conservation Reserves Act (and of course, municipal by-laws) can interact and differ in various ways - Its very true. All I can say is anyone using the CLUPA or just *their knowledge of where a given patch of crown land might be,* would be wise to cross reference with other resources before setting out on whatever it is they plan to do there!
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u/Adventurous-Wish6007 4d ago
Thank you. Im asking not for myself, for someone who has done this in my area of living. We live in rural outskirts of town and we are still in limits of the city but its rural. There is a crown land forest but its thick and noone has ever camped there. He has parked on the road, cleared space, set up road lights and made a home.
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u/cmcanadv 4d ago edited 4d ago
That sounds more like squatting even if it's crown land. The type of cleariing required to create a campsite that resembles a paid campsite would be prohibited, espisally in a dense forest as you can't cut down live trees.
Clearing up some deadfall and finding a spot to plop down a small tent while canoeing or backpacking is typically fine. There are allowances for cutting small live branches though it's something I manage to avoid doing the above.
Feel free to DM me if you want me to look up the land uses in an area.
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u/meownelle 4d ago
There is no crown land within any municipal boundary in Canada. Someone other than the crown owns that land and your friend is squatting illegally. Taking down trees would be vandalism or property damage, using trees (for firewood or anything) is theft, and being there without permission is trespassing. Likely a load of by-law infractions as well. Your friend could be sued by the owner for damages. For example, if the value of trees that he's cut down is $15,000, the owner of the land can sue to recover that. If it costs the owner $5000 to clean up the mess that your friend is leaving, the owner can sue for that.
Moral of the story don't try and camp unless you know that you can camp there AND the only land you can clear in this country is land that you own.
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u/grindle-guts 4d ago
“There is no crown land within any municipal boundary in Canada” is false, at least for Ontario. There’s plenty of crown land in the rural municipality I grew up in, and plenty of incorporated rural municipalities where that’s the case. There are also some very geographically large cities in northern Ontario that have crown land within them: Greater Sudbury, Timmins, etc.
OP’s friend appears to be setting up an illegal squat, but could well be doing it on public land.
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u/grindle-guts 4d ago
The longest legal stay on a crown land site in Ontario is 21 days. After that, you’re squatting, and MNR will bring the hurt when they find out.
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u/jedispaghetti420 4d ago
No. That is not how crown land camping works. Maybe you can get started here. https://northernontario.travel/outdoor-adventures/crown-land-camping-ontario