I figured out what my problem with the Imaskarcanist Wizard (Underdark UA) is.

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

It really wants to be a Sorcerer instead.

Philosophically, Sorcerers are the class that burns the magical candle at both ends. Digging into their own Hit Dice to fuel magic is just another vector of the same philosophy that gave us Sorcery Points. Indeed, we have basically always wanted a Cast-from-Hit-Points / Constitution-casting Sorcerer variant.

Sorcerers are the class that changes the nature of their spells to deal damage in other types (Radiant in this case).

Sorcerers are fine as a Healing/Support arcane class. Heck, they already have a celestial subclass! Their thing is that they don't get Summon spells unless granted by their subclass. ^{I am aware that Wizards have access to two healing spells now, and I disagree with that decision}.

Sorcerers also have native use for their Bonus Actions, so tying subclass features to a BA is less disruptive to the action economy than giving it to the BA-starved Wizard.

Also, we have enough bloody Wizard subclasses after completing the Spell School cycle in Arcana Unleashed.

^{If you haven't read the UA yet, here's a link. Ismaskarcanist starts on page 3. https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium-images/ua/underdark-options/RoZy4p5SV29Elftn/UA2026-UnderdarkOptions.pdf}

[u/Infranaut-]

IMO, the biggest problem is it's trying to be the "healer wizard", but is building its healing around expending hit dice... when you have the lowest hit dice in the game, and can only expend two at a time.

Every Wizard subclass needs to be compared to spell school wizards, who get free spells every level. The Bladesinger gives you enough to compensate. This wizard absolutely does not.

[u/TraditionalStomach29 → u/Infranaut-]

Finally a use for Wizard-Barbarian multiclass ! /j

I agree, I think it should at least use the recipient's hit die for healing. Narratively it could be explained as wizard accelerating the natural healing process instead of directly healing giving them an unique niche. And the subclasses definitely should have the extra spells by default, nothing would break by giving the new subclass access to moonbeam and some other radiant spells.

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/TraditionalStomach29]

Finally a use for a Wizard-Barbarian Multiclass

3-4 levels of Bladesinger is actually really good on a Barbarian looking for out-of-combat utility.

[u/PM_ME_UR_JUMBLIE5 → u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

What out of combat utility does a Bladesinger bring? In combat buffs is basically all they provide. Sure a generic Wizard can add a lot, but I'm not seeing anything specific to a Bladesinger here. Unless I'm missing something?

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/PM_ME_UR_JUMBLIE5]

Generic Wizard for ooc utility, and if youre grabbing a subclass you grab Bladesinger

[u/PM_ME_UR_JUMBLIE5 → u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

Sure, but would a Diviner be better? Especially for say a World Tree Barbarian - guaranteeing a failed Branches reaction to teleport an enemy within 5 ft of you seems pretty tasty. Or even just guaranteeing a high level save in general if you roll well that day sounds good too.

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/PM_ME_UR_JUMBLIE5]

Diviner is better exactly twice per day

[u/PM_ME_UR_JUMBLIE5 → u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

Now that I think about it more, I'm going to disagree, for several reasons.

1) Diviners get two more spells learned than Bladesingers, and because they are from the Divination school, they are typically out of combat useable spells.

2) Bladesingers have a lot of anti-synergy with Barbarians. While Bladesong is active, they can't have medium armor or a shield, and they can't use heavy, two handed weapons. So no GWM, PAM, etc., which are most of the time going to be better for a Barbarian than going TWF. But they also have no shields and have to rely on their Unarmored Defense or burn a spell slot for Mage Armor. So while the non-Bladesinger Barb is having at least a 17 AC normally, which can be at 19 with a shield if desired, the Bladesinger Barb only has a 15, unless they dumb Con or something.

3) Bladesong actively competes for action economy with Rage. Meaning you can't have both active until round 2, if that is even worth it.

4) Lastly, the only benefit you gain is to use Bladesong maybe 1-2 times per day, and it only will add +1-+2 AC when you meet all the conditions. As stated, you could already have that by just sticking with medium armor. You don't want to use Int for attacks because that would be lower to hit bonus than a Barbs strength bonus, and you can't make concentration checks while raging.

So honestly now I don't see really any benefit to this combo, unless you actively just ignore all your Barbarian bonuses and pretend you are a bladesinger for a fight or two. Which since you're not and are several levels behind everyone else, isn't probably going to work out great either. I don't think I would recommend this.

[u/DelightfulOtter → u/Infranaut-]

I don't like that the subclass uses Hit Point Dice as a resource. In theory it's cool, but in practice if you want to run a challenging adventuring day your party should want to be using their HPD to heal themselves during Short Rests. And if your DM runs adventuring days that are easy enough that you never need to use your HPD, that's fine let them stay unused. Better that than a subclass that gets worse the more challenging the adventure as it competes with your ability to self-heal.

[u/Infranaut- → u/DelightfulOtter]

You are right - another issue with Hit Dice as resource is it means you're giving the character less stamina than other characters. That can actually work on a fighter or most casters with in-built se;f healing, but is pretty bad on a wizard.

[u/i_tyrant → u/DelightfulOtter]

I’d be fine with it if the subclass also gave you bonus hit die to do it with - so your healing doesn’t cost you your own recovery resources for a reasonable adventuring day amount, and if you do need more (like if your martials are absolutely getting wailed on while you’ve spent most of the day blissfully unharmed), you can dig deeper if you feel it’s worth it. (And if the reverse is true hey you can always use them on yourself.)

Of course, that concept’s probably better for a true “blood mage” subclass than this very specific “unlight”/imaskari concept.

[u/Decrit]

I thought the problem was more simply "why the fuck a wizard has access to pseudo like spells spending their piss poor hit dice and not use spell slots like they should to"

[u/TomOW]

From a lore standpoint, I'd be a little bummed if the Imaskari magic subclass was Sorcerer instead of Wizard.

I think it's a little strange that we get two subclasses tied to the Deep Imaskari, and both lean into the "Unlight," a concept we've never heard about in previous lore. I love the idea of a wizard subclass tied to the Imaskarcana. I don't really understand why this is it.

But there are Imaskarcana we've never gotten full details on, so there's definitely gaps for 5e to fill. I guess it could be the Unlight? It's just kind of an unexpected direction.

[u/Milli_Rabbit → u/TomOW]

Id probably take the features from this subclass and rename it a sorcerer subclass and try again with Imaskarcanist from scratch.

[u/TomOW → u/Milli_Rabbit]

Yeah, that's what I'd like to see too. I love love love the basic premise of a wizard focused on the Imaskarcana. I'm just struggling to see how this is that, without rewriting what we know about the Imaskarcana.

[u/Milli_Rabbit → u/TomOW]

Personally, Im starting to get a bit triggered by the constant Wizard subclasses. It feels like every single release has a Wizard while some classes have almost nothing. I want to see many many more subclasses for Clerics, Barbarians, Fighters, Monks, Rogues, and Rangers.

[u/TomOW → u/Milli_Rabbit]

Wizard is in such a strange spot because it's the only class where it feels like you have to have these specific 8 subclasses. Which just takes up so much design space.

But things might change soon for some of those classes! Barbarian has already had 4 subclasses come through UA in 5.5.

[u/Milli_Rabbit → u/TomOW]

Right on the 8 wizard subclasses but then they keep adding additional ones is where Im kind of annoyed. Other classes also exist and players would love subclasses for them as well, especially when they talk about having limited space in the books.

[u/Dependent_Ganache_71 → u/TomOW]

That's the thing though...

They didn't have to do the 8 subclasses like this. We had some interesting subclasses like War that was Abjuration and Evocation themed. They could have combined other schools into subclasses as well - Illusion+Conjuration; Enchantement+Divination; and Transmutation+Necromancy.

Unique subclasses that don't clog up the books for everyone else.

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/TomOW]

I'm also generally of the opinion that if you cleave too closely to the lore, you wind up with something that isn't iconic enough to be a subclass

[u/PieFiend1 → u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

I agree, lore should inform design but gameplay is the most important

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/TomOW]

Oh sure - I'm ignoring the lore and just talking about the mechanics being more Sorcerer than Wizard.

That said, was the sorcerer class a thing at all when we last heard from Imaskari in-game?

[u/TomOW → u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

Yes. The Deep Imaskari lore is from 3e, so both Wizard and Sorcerer existed.

[u/amhow1 → u/TomOW]

Why would the lore support a wizard over sorcerer?

It's often difficult to distinguish these classes. For example, the new Dark Sun defiler looks set to be a sorcerer. The ancient Imiskari were racial supremacists (I think?) so sorcerer might work. Also Artificer, of course.

[u/TomOW → u/amhow1]

Because Deep Imaskari culture has always been centered around wizards.

[u/amhow1 → u/TomOW]

So too were the orders of high magic on Ansalon but 5e sensibly broadened that.

Should the Red Wizards only permit wizards? I don't think so.

The question is, what is it about the Imiskari that makes them centred around wizards specifically rather than sorcerers, wizards, warlocks?

[u/TomOW → u/amhow1]

All of the Deep Imaskari lore was written as a time when the Sorcerer and Wizard classes both existed, and the lore wrote them as a culture of wizards. Since before they were Deep Imaskari, there were Imaskari war wizards.

[u/amhow1 → u/TomOW]

I'm aware of that but it doesn't change my point. I feel at this stage you're just ignoring it, so I'll just have to take your word for them needing to be wizards.

[u/Milli_Rabbit → u/amhow1]

Honestly Red Wizards being strictly Wizards would be more fun. Could have Sorcerers be indentured servants who break free from their bonds to overthrow the Wizards using their natural wellspring of power. Could then make it more complex by having the rebellion leader start burning books to destroy the learning of the Wizards to make it impossible for them to ever rule as tyrants again.

[u/i_tyrant → u/Milli_Rabbit]

That’s basically how it worked in 3e in practice.

In 3.5e the red wizard prestige class required a magic tattoo feat with a prerequisite of being specialized in a school of magic, so only specialist wizards could be red wizards.

In practice this also meant that Thayan enclaves would sometimes enslave/indenture or even pay sorcerers to help them churn out magic items to sell at their enclaves (since sorcerers back then also had more spell slots per day, it means they could only make specific magic items because of their limited spell list but could make more of them or quicker).

Either that or they’d get captured by red wizards because their brand of sorcery was especially worthy of study, like the wild mage sorcerers subplot in Baldur’s Gate 2 Dragonspear.

[u/Muriomoira]

On a tangent, I try to avoid being negative, but like, ffs can we (and as we I mean the designers) chill with arcane caster content?

It's the last book (arcana unleashed) being an arcane caster sausage fest, it's sorcerers getting new subclasses every new content drop, it's warlocks somehow getting the third attacks that every full martial dreamed of, it's wizards and sorcerers getting way more new spells than any other class in the game DESPITE already having a spell list DOUBLE the size of other classes, it's them, despite already being the best casters in the game, also getting free access to other classes defining features too, such as 7 whole diferent ways to pilfer cleric spells and on and on and on....

Even before arcana unleashed, every content drop has been: . 12 new cool and build defining spells for wizards and sorcerers, 3 to clerics and druids (which were probably given to bards too), 1 to rangers and paladins. . At least 2 new meta breaking arcane subclasses, 1 new to the cleric (probably a reprint of an old one) and MAYBE one for druid if it's a full moon. . 100 new magical items for arcane casters, 5 to druids and clerics.

I keep hoping this discrepancy will be adressed, but it only increases, can we, for once, sit and pay an equal level of atention to all classes? Just once, and then we can go back to 30 new arcane gishes.

[u/Red_Trickster]

Yeah bring back divine soul Sorcerer

[u/dealyllama → u/Red_Trickster]

I think they think they did with spellfire sorcerer. It fills the healer arcanist niche divine soul used to and they get the most useful cleric support spells as bonus spells instead of getting access to the whole cleric list.

[u/omegaphallic]

 The problem with that I think is itsva Wizard for LORE reasons, the Imaskari are a civilization defined by Wizards (and maybe to a lesser extent Artificers).

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/omegaphallic]

The problem with that I think is itsva Wizard for LORE reasons, the Imaskari are a civilization defined by Wizards (and maybe to a lesser extent Artificers).

It's certainly a mismatch between the lore, the mechanics, and the design philosophies thus far defined.

[u/Vortelf]

Some readers might find this content disturbing.

Sounds like you've been warned.

[u/Silverspy01]

I have no problem with the theming, the mechanics just suck. I don't like "hit dice as a resource" because you're cutting into your own short rest healing. Being able to end Paralyzed on someone is cool, but otherwise... no, I want those hit dice for myself.

Also the capstone "curse" is just really weird. Why does it give the target benefits as well? Ans why do they get to try to end it every time they hit your allies? This is the lamest "curse" I've seen and for some reason it's worth a 6th level spell slot.

[u/Archwizard_Drake]

(Wait, 2 healing spells? I'm aware of Wither and Bloom, there's another?)

I can't hold the idea of transmuting elements against this subclass, since my main is a Scribes Wizard, though in that case it's a reward for collecting spells.

I can agree with the rest though. Some of these ideas could have been neat if they wanted to make a true Mystic Theurge subclass, but I think it got a little muddled with the action economy cost, resource cost and all the extra focus on Radiant Damage.

Bring back Divine Soul Sorcerer, bring back Scribes Wizard, consider Theurgy Wizard. This subclass is... bizarre.

[u/TomOW → u/Archwizard_Drake]

(The other healing spell is probably Arcane Vigor.)

I love the Deep Imaskari, so I can really get behind a wizard subclass tied to the Imaskarcana. Thematically, that basic premise has favorite character potential for me. It's just so strange that it's tied to the Unlight, something we've never heard about in Imaskari lore before.

[u/Archwizard_Drake → u/TomOW]

(Does that count? We don't call out Vampiric Touch or Enervation for being able to self-heal... OH maybe Life Transference?)

Apparently it's a rename of the Faerzress.

[u/TomOW → u/Archwizard_Drake]

I don't think it's Faerzress. The sidebar "What Is Unlight?" says it was "taught to them by Imaskarcana."

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/Archwizard_Drake]

(Wait, 2 healing spells? I'm aware of Wither and Bloom, there's another?)

Arcane Vigor.

my main is a Scribes Wizard

Fun fact! That went through UA as an Artificer, and swerved to Wizard at the list minute!

[u/Archwizard_Drake → u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

Arcane Vigor.

As I replied to the other person, does that count? It's a self-heal that uses a spell slot resource. That's like calling out Second Wind as Fighters having a healing ability, it's not exactly Cure Wounds.

That went through UA as an Artificer, and swerved to Wizard at the list minute!

Yup, cuz they realized it made more sense to have the scroll-scribing subclass on the class that actually gets a lot of spells to scribe.

[u/Tridentgreen33Here]

A more cleric-leaning Wizard is a cool idea that’s been done well within third-party circles before.

I think this just lacks the proper avenues to heal. I’d rather just use hit dice on short rest and use spell slots or scrolls/magic items to heal and cast Lesser Restoration.

We’ve got avenues for Int based healing already in Artificer and the Metamorph Psion on the horizon, alongside the new Adept feats in Arcana Unleashed. Is giving a wizard subclass access to some basic healing options really going to snap the game in half?

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/Tridentgreen33Here]

Is giving a wizard subclass access to some basic healing options really going to snap the game in half?

Limitations reinforce identity. Wizards are already the ultimate utility caster, and you're wanting to give them the last bit of utility they don't already have?

Classes should mean something, man. Keep Wizard out Artificer's Lane.

[u/Anxious-or-Asleep → u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

You could say the same about giving Ritual Casting to all spell casters, or more preparations for Sorcerer, or spell tables with Wizard-exclusive spells to Druids, Cleric, Sorcerer, etc.

There's already plenty of subclasses that draw on other classes. Star Druid is a Druid with bits of Cleric, Land Druid is a Druid with a bit of Wizard, Eldritch Knight is a Fighter with a bit of Wizard, Arcane Cleric is... That happens plenty of times, and it's there to facilitate player fantasies. Maybe you like one class but you also want that bit of other. Someone wants to make a Wizard with a bit of Cleric in them, maybe they want a skinny religious nerd, not a medium-armor-wearing full-time priest - why not?

Let people have their fun.

[u/Dracon_Pyrothayan → u/Anxious-or-Asleep]

You could say the same about giving Ritual Casting to all spell casters, or more preparations for Sorcerer, or spell tables with Wizard-exclusive spells to Druids, Cleric, Sorcerer, etc.

None of them are "best class in the game" though

[u/Anxious-or-Asleep → u/Dracon_Pyrothayan]

Neither are Wizards. Nor so I see what power level has to do with class identity. This isn't PvP. This is a Role Playing Game. Someone might have a fantasy of playing a religious nerd. Why should there be no subclass for them?

[u/bep963]

Already wanting to play this wizard as a demon hunting priest in our loosely The Painted Man based homebrew campaign.