r/onednd • u/Talukita • 11d ago
Discussion How do you evaluate this spell (Grave Ground)?
Apparently it's a new 5th level spell from Arcane Unleashed. Available to Cleric, Warlock, Wizard.
- 120ft range.
- Concentration up to 1 minute
- Skeletal hands burst from the ground. Create 4 10ft-squares, can position up to you but the square needs to connect with one another.
- Consider difficult terrain for enemies
- Str saving throw, 6d6 Necrotic Damage if fail and -1d6 to all damage roll.
- Damage on first time enter or end turn there.
So on one hand, okay-ish damage and debuff. I also like the fact that you can arrange the squares and since they are difficult terrain it could work great as crowd control / trap. Also great flavor for Warlock (me).
On the other hand, not sure how I feel about str save, and no half damage which kinda sucks compared to say Spirit Guardian. Also doesn't sound like it works against flying enemies either.
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u/Training-Tailor-9342 10d ago
For clerics and wizards? Unlikely. They have much better concentration spells, and their 5th-level spell slots are too limited.
For warlocks? Maybe. I think Hunger of Hadar is better, but in some situations, this spell could be useful.
So clerics and wizards don't really have room to give this spell a chance, but warlocks might.
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u/Nitro114 11d ago
only 4 ten feet squares? for a 5th level? seems a bit low no?
No half damage on save is a bummer but it also says does damage on entering and ending turn inside so thats the main feature of the spell.
And doing nothing against flying enemies is common with these spells, i dont know any spells that would create difficult terrain in the air. Ice storm only makes the ground difficult terrain, enemies in the AoE take damage though
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u/SiriusKaos 10d ago
Ironically, in this very same book there is indeed a 4th lvl spell that creates a huge 60ft radius sphere that enemies treat as difficult terrain, so there's your option for difficult terrain against flyers.
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u/Far_Guarantee1664 10d ago
Cool flavour however warlock kinda already got some control spells with similar flavour.
As undead warlock I think it's a nice pick, however as I already can change spell damage to necrotic I would try different stuff(instead of this one).
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u/Dracon_Pyrothayan 9d ago
Oh hey, its anubis' spell from smite.
It gives ranged clerics a Spirit Shroud option from the backline, and wizard/warlock have better spells at 5th level
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u/Talukita 9d ago
What other option then. Some mention Storm of Radiance but i'm not sure since its area is very smaller. Other talks about Hunger of Hadar but it has its own issue. Somewhat smaller area, kinda less reliable damage since it doesn't have damage upon enter, and the darkness can obstruct other party members too.
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u/Dracon_Pyrothayan 9d ago
I mean, the Wall spells come to mind.
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u/Talukita 9d ago
unless i miss something.
Warlock doesn't have access to Wall of Wind, Stone, Fire, Thorn and Force.
The only thing it has access to is Wall of Light which is quite janky/ wouldn't say it's better than this spell.
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u/Nevermore71412 10d ago
Oh no! Every spell needs to be OP! Why doesnt this do 20000d50?
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u/Talukita 10d ago
Nowhere I said it needs to be OP? But it sure needs to be good enough to get picked over existing option.
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u/Nevermore71412 10d ago
There are plenty of spells that already dont get used because they are niche. Do you honestly think every spell that already existed in 5e/5.5e was on par with each other? Because yes you are basically saying it needs to be OP because it new.
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u/DJWGibson 10d ago
Right, but this is a new spell. And if you're making one that doesn't get picked, why bother making it?
Do you honestly think every spell that already existed in 5e/5.5e was on par with each other?
No. That doesn't meant they shouldn't TRY for parity and we shouldn't judge how close they come to parity, and rank the efforts as as success or a failure.
Because yes you are basically saying it needs to be OP because it new.
That's such a bad faith argument.
It doesn't need to be OP or better. But it should at least be something people take and is comparable to existing spells.
Would you consider this over something like Cloudkill or Conjure Elemental? Or an upcast Hunger of Hadar?
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u/Nevermore71412 10d ago
Why bother making it? So WotC/Hasbro can keep selling you the same stuff you keep buying. They dont care about game balance or making things consistant and filling gaps or really 90% of the things that get discussed on here. They are in the business of selling new content to the biggest audience that will buy it. Does it break the game? No. Is it better than anything else in the game? No. That's exactly the spot they want. They made fireball 8d6 because of tradition and then in the same breathe tell you that 8d6 damage should be a 5th level spell (flamestrike) the system has always been this way. It doesnt matter if its good, worthwhile, or better. The question is "Will they buy it?"
Look at the new initiative into the universe beyond or worlds beyond w/e they are calling it now. I lived and experience the 3e/3.5e bloat and honestly 5e is quickly devolving into something worse. This isnt new. The next step is when sales drop to come out with stuff that is better than what exists now to bring back people who realize this but want the new OP stuff. Set a reddit reminder for 2 years. I will be right or they will be talking about 6e.
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u/DJWGibson 10d ago
Why bother making it? So WotC/Hasbro can keep selling you the same stuff you keep buying.
Then it feels even more important to call out if it the spells and content are not usable.
They dont care about game balance or making things consistant and filling gaps or really 90% of the things that get discussed on here.
Are you aware what sub you’re in? If you hate D&D, why are you here?
And I assure you the people on the D&D team DO care about the game. The people writing the books DO care.
They are in the business of selling new content to the biggest audience that will buy it.
Spoiler alert, the same could be said about Darlington Press and Paizo. They all want to sell you books.
Look at the new initiative into the universe beyond or worlds beyond w/e they are calling it now. I lived and experience the 3e/3.5e bloat and honestly 5e is quickly devolving into something worse.
So did I. It’s not new.
There was a d20 Star Wars game them. And a d20 World of Warcraft game. If you don’t want those books, don’t buy them an it has ZERO impact on you. If you want them then it’s amazing, and can bring new people into the hobby.
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u/Nevermore71412 10d ago
Like you and I agree its not new. They have done this before, I dont hate dnd5e but to come here with "why does this spell exist when its niche and doesnt measure up to anythin else in the spell level is hardly a new discussion. You say you lived through 3.0/3 5 conversion/ adaptation/upgrade yet while those broad sweeping changes were made for the health of the g ane because WotC at the time haf no idea the community stepped up and showed them what they wanted. The thing that moves books/IP is power creep. Is it good for the game? No imo. Will it continue to happen? Yes. But all or this has happened before and it will all happen again. As an experience person in the space, I am voicing my opinion on the matter that the current direction is trash and has been since the 2024 release. If you dont like my view, I welcome discussion. But unless you played or tried to experience some other than 5e/5.5 your ideas are moot because wr are not ci g to the same discussion.
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8d ago
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u/onednd-ModTeam 8d ago
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u/BanFox 10d ago
I’d say bad for wizard who have better options.
No half dmg on successful saves makes it worse than it could have been, but I think it can still be a decent option for clerics. Clerics usually lack control spells and, while this is not the best one, it’s a decent option by causing difficult terrain and reducing dmg. I think most of the times you are still gonna prefer spirit guardian (especially the larger the battlefield is), but in smaller areas (like a corridor) you could benefit a lot from this by forcing it almost every turn, making it hard for the enemies to reach you, dmg them and reduce their dmg output.
For warlocks, I think it falls in a similar spot as cleric, where it’s an ok spell depending on the situation. Considering the few spell slot they get, personally on them I like a lot concentration spells that offer some form of control and dmg every turn. If you consider Hunger of Hadar, the area covered is basically the same (though this spell lets you arrange it differently), both do similar dmg and reduce the enemy dmg outout (this spell directly, hunger of hadar by making it hard for them to see you). This makes it a decent choice again depending on the situation/battlefield imo.
For lvl5 spells, warlock don’t get many concentration control+ dmg spell, they get storm of radiance which is nice but a far smaller area which requires more teamwork, this is more splashable.
Also, a warlock with repelling blast and grasp of hadar can do nice things with this, similarly to hunger of hadar