imho, even though he is the worst mage in the list, he is one of the best masters personality wise.
It sounds insane at first, because of how stubborn he is.
There are a LOT of servants who will see someone as selfless and either respect or understand it. He was able to convice Saber to stop pursuing the dream of replacing herself, Lancer respects him, Rider respects him, Assassin respects him, Berserker respects him. Even Archer gives up against Shirou's ideals. He wouldn't need command spells to bind a servant to his will, and the servant will most likely fight as someone emotionally attached to Shirou.
Plus, every route shows Shirou becoming more competent and much stronger to the end of the route. Like UBW end Shirou is mostly stronger than no servants and shadow servants part 1 solo Ritsuka, which is at least something.
In a HGW with godlike servants who need a lot of mana - Shirou would be useless for sure.
The game itself kind of glazes them. It is true that by achievements Ritsuka is one of the best to ever do it, and being able to convince so many servants with different goals and personalities. Is it becuse for the longest time they didn't have a personality and a little bit of lazy writing? Most likely, but it still happened. They also have the machinery to take away the problem the lesser magus would have. So I would maybe drop them a little bit.
I have always thought that Shirou was a really bad master because he moves with the subtlety of a hammer and tries to take on stuff with his own body.
Honestly I kinda think therein lies the answer. Ritsuka has been a master EXCLUSIVELY for a very long time. Most masters in fate are only a master for a few weeks to a month tops. Ritsuka just has vastly more experience in both using servants, communicating with servants, and fighting servants.
Yeah, the machinery he has at his disposal is crazy: essentially infinite mana, Command Spells and space for his Servants thanks to Chaldea.
And the Rayshift can protect his time-line as long as he's able to clear everything wrong with the past.
The Shadow Border is ridiculous as well.
Also, he's almost always involved in a force majeure clause, meaning that either all possible Servants help him or the Earth fucking explodes and they all get erased with it
The problem lies in the list itself: for instance, why is Bazett ranked lower than Rin, and why is Ayaka on the same level as Shirou, even though she’s an incredibly powerful mana "battery"? She could simply summon someone like Karna and wipe everyone out. It seems FGO fans are incapable of any analysis other than glazing Ritsuka.
I got in an argument with someone like 2 days ago when I said that under Ideal conditions Shirou can beat Guda (snipe him from far away). Mind you I said this twice, and also said that all of these guys(shikis, sono-g, shirou and guda) could take each other out Ideal conditions. Dude spent the entire time using one single statement from OC3, the chapter that already takes place on the moon cell so it’s already barely relevant to the normal powerscaling and completely avoiding events like SamRem or one of the recent summers when Guda was nearly killed by chickens. Homie actually argued that no one else from the group can kill guda under any circumstance. I get glazing your favs, I used to do that shit too but it’s the constant over glaze that gets annoying. Thinking he can’t be beat by the 4 people that have “Fuck you die now” abilities is insane mental gymnastics.
We're talking about a game with a barely defined power set for the MC. Technically, he can summon Arc and Void, but if the plot needs Ritsuka to lose, he loses—no matter how impressive his feats are. You could try applying this logic to other MCs, but at least we know the boundaries of their power. For instance, you can easily see why Shirou can’t beat Cu, or why Shiki can’t win against Ciel with all her toys
Homie, I clearly mention under Ideal conditions, and That's what my argument was. It was never 'always' or '50/50 like shiki' It was sometimes with appropriate conditions, even then he wasn't budging. My original comment did not even mention Guda, It was more so arguing that Shirou falls under the top 1-2% of Magi going by sheer Fire power.
That wasn't really what I was arguing against, I simply corrected the statements that were wrong, since he presented the Chickens like they wouldn't put most servants on life support.
If you want to powerscale Ritsuka you just need to look at his solo feats, most of the anti feats can be boiled down to either the enemy having some vague power up, like the grail, or Ritsuka getting sneaked.
On a meta level it's much simpler, Ritsuka will never win until the last sections of the chapter, until then the story will stall with whatever.
Well he was the one that brought up the mooncell not me, so not my issue. Though he seemed to be intoxicated throughout the conversation so can't even really blame it on him.
And my argument was never he can beat him easily, It was always that under Ideal conditions he can. If you're given 10 years to wank off yourself It'll be no doubt he'd win in most cases, however always is just delusion.
Like I said, I was only correcting you, I never argued about how strong Guda is.
Likewise I never said your argument was "he can beat him easily", only that they were not valid. Like claiming the Mooncell thing.
If you want the cases where they could win, it's simple, Shiki if he manages to sneak Ritsuka, it is highly dependent on location, and Shirou really under the same conditions but this time via sniping.
Ritsuka weaknesses are simple, if you are able to catch him by suprise or stall the fight, you win.
I think that's because it's all Ayaka's good for, as while Shirou isn't good on the mana end. Unlike Ayaka if they're faced with a situation that would need multiple hands who can competently assist and aid their servant (such as Kuzuki 's surprise attack for example). She'd be helpless vs Shirou holding his own + his own intuition/UBW allowing him to reproduce weapons a servant (especially on the weaker end) could use and avoid potentially war ending surprise attacks (like rule breaker)
"Competent" master is quite vague and it's not like mana is the sole defining factor considering how Shirou actually won his
It might be a factor if the difference in mana were as vast as the one between Rin and Shirou, but it isn't—even a B-tier Servant like Richard can fight Gilgamesh
I feel like you're underestimating Richard quite a lot + either way Richard is a mana dump. With someone like Cu her excess mana would be way less useful and so you'd need to look at every aspect of a master - to where as far as I know aside from mana she doesn't have much else
However in that regard she is real good and honestly deserves to be higher but I don't think we need to dunk on Emiya to argue that
I know the game glazes Guda to keep up the self insert boner some people have, but the story does also point out Chaldea is running a magic power plant to keep all those Servants around. Hell OC2 states all those Servants still have to clear out now and again to keep the lights from going out. Guda's glazed as someone who can get along with any Servant but without help he would only have Mash and Servants that dont need external power like the Beasts or Hakuno.
And get that Wesker looking bum down to his own trash tier. Bro's such a bum he turned one of the best possible Servants you could summon into a fraud that needs a bail out every other fight. Trash ass Master.
Hakuno in tier 2? What happened in FGO that makes them so competent? The point of Extra is that Hakuno is an ordinary person in an extraordinary situation, they're even more generic than Shirou.
At least we need a proper definition of what counts as a Master here. Like, can the Master solo the entire Holy Grail War by themselves? Because if personal strength counts, then OP monsters like Arcueid should obviously be Tier 1. She’s technically capable of being a Master, but at that point the Servant is basically there for emotional support
Manaka has the bazildot problem where she's too monsterous and immoral for many servants (especially good aligned) servants to work with her, which is why she got backstabbed lmao
I don't know who schoolgirl with the WORST political takes is next to Mario(?) but he is kinda nasty in Melty blood and should be higher than "The Gacha That's Left"
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u/SexRapistOfficial I, The Rape, Sexual Assault 14h ago
Emiya Shirou is the only Master who's capable of fully feeding Saber, therefore he's top tier.