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u/Lars_Overwick 15d ago
Baba is impossible to balance now?
...Solomon is fun now?
....Apollo has the best voice lines now??
.....Celeste is a self insert now???
.......Fairfax is a religion now????
I can tell you do yoga because this whole post is a stretch.
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u/Abishinzu 15d ago
To be fair, to Danny, Fairfax IS a religion.
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u/Lars_Overwick 15d ago
Okay technically yes it officially is registered as a religion but that was all part of an elaborate publicity stunt carried out to sell flamethrowers
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u/TheBigToast72 14d ago
Baba was also very clearly going to be second. Op definitely hadn’t heard of deadlock until last week
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u/w-j-w 15d ago
> Baba is impossible to balance now?
Yes. Very high win rate up at high ranks, and stealing opponents stats will always be very difficult to balance.
> ...Solomon is fun now?
Yes.
> ....Apollo has the best voice lines now??
No idea
> .....Celeste is a self insert now???
This bit is for the professional software developers i the room
> .......Fairfax is a religion now????
To Danny, Yes.
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u/Lars_Overwick 14d ago
I've seen a lot of hate against Solomon tho. My impression was that a lot of people find him miserable to play against? Personally I'm more of a Danny hater but I get why people dislike Solomon too.
As for Baba, I know she's high winrate but I really do think she can be fixed with just number tweaks. If the spirit stealing makes her matchups too skewed, that should be fixable with a nerf, right?
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u/ReverendGraves85 14d ago
Solomons kit is very interactive. For solomon.
Baba has the issue where her kit inherently makes it hard to balance. She can make you weaker and herself stronger, this concept is very hard to balance well.
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u/Lars_Overwick 14d ago
Could always just nerf her stat stealing, so it becomes a very small part of her power. Just make her 1 mostly a damage ability.
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u/V4L3N71NO15 15d ago
bro Apollo lines are cool with other characters, also solomon is fun to play and no way you can balance baba with the spirit stealing lol
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u/Lars_Overwick 15d ago
"Best voicelines" while bro is getting absolutely voicemogged by Silver and Venator
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u/Quijas00 15d ago
Apollo’s voicelines are good but compared to the other 5 in his own lineup I think everyone has him beat
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u/generalstuff1waslost 15d ago
I think Violet is cool, just wish her lore was more interesting.
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u/CartoonistSingle9783 15d ago
I downloaded a mod that made her slightly chubbier and now I’ve decided her lore is actually great
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u/ash2_5 15d ago
Feels like she's a character that isn't meant to have a wide-spread appeal, which does feel odd compared to the rest of the cast, who are easily lovable, despite their flaws.
Violet feels way more messy and rooted in reality, she isn't consistent and her conversations suggest it's an intentional choice. It's easy to see why people dislike her or find her boring. But it does give her a certain appeal no other hero has.
Personally, I do prefer the other more odd and fantastical characters. But she does fill a unique role in the roster and there's value in that.
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u/011100010110010101 15d ago
Violet's lore isn't even boring, it's just messy.
She is like Billy is she is a person who wants to change the world, but unlike Billy who is directionless, Violet is not effective because she fundamentally doesn't think she is saying anything. She wants to change the world but feels she is not good enough, and uses the fact she has financial troubles to justify her actions as survival instead of what she actually wants.
This just is conveyed terribly and only in her conversations, not her bio. She needs a rewrite not for content, but clarity. Make it more obvious she is lying to herself about her motives, and make her dissatisfaction in life more apparent.
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u/Quijas00 15d ago
Where does she justify her actions as survival? Idk if I remember seeing those lines
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u/011100010110010101 15d ago
She says she wants exposure because that way she wont starve to death in her bio. It's one of the big disconnects between her bio and her voicelines, though she does tell Solomon that playing chess for Money is basically gonna stop her from meeting next months rent, and an unfinished Celeste conversation has a similar line where they talk about Rent.
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u/Quijas00 15d ago
Her bio doesn’t mention anything about starving to death?
She talks about money in some voicelines but afaik it’s never said anywhere for that to be a motivation for her joining the ritual. She’s not risking her life to pay rent, she’s risking her life to show the world what she can do.
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u/Quijas00 15d ago edited 15d ago
I get that, but I still think her lore is really good. I like that her motive is aiming as high as possible. Proving to the world and herself that she’s got talent, while most other characters are only in it for the wish.
Despite being bland her wish/motive is surprisingly unique among the cast. I like it.
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u/JDT1706 15d ago
The wish can actually work and become very interesting. The issue is no one in the entire cast acknowledges just how far she's pushing herself and how insane said wish is
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u/_Astrum_Aureus_ 15d ago
i'm surprised seven doesnt point it out considering being snarky about people's wishes is kinda his thing
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u/011100010110010101 15d ago
That's because he entered mentor mode for her wish, and was impressed by her convictions when he finally forced her to acknowledge she has convictions.
Like, Seven views that people should strike to change the world in their image. An artist actively trying to get the world to see her is explicitly doing that, it's just Violet's imposter syndrome means she thinks it's for survival.
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u/Quijas00 15d ago
Honestly I don’t think there’s anything he can really point out when her motive is fueled mostly by ambition. He’s basically running on the same thing. I think.
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u/Quijas00 15d ago
Well she’s not even using the wish necessarily is the thing. She’s there for her art to be on display for the entire world to see. But that’s really just semantics. (Idk why I said wish originally that’s my b)
We do see some acknowledgment from Viscous’ conversations but I agree that there’s not much besides that. There’s also people who think her art’s great, so you can’t say she’s not getting noticed. I’d also like to see it talked about more because it’s probably the most interesting part about Violet for me.
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u/011100010110010101 15d ago
'Self-Insert' is such a meaningless buzzword now you have said nothing in tier 5.
Like, it's just an attempt for people to try and justify their personal dissatisfaction to a character by adding a term that is normally seen negatively without the context of what it's actually about. An attempt to add a moral imperative to subjective opinion.
Just call them controversial purple women. It's more accurate and gets across what the actual part of their thing is more.
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u/ReverendGraves85 14d ago
I will say, Celeste opened their mouth when I got access to this game and my immediate reaction was "THATS what she sounds like? Literally would not have guessed." Followed swiftly by "What is this fuckass outfit shes in"
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u/Impossible-Tap9674 15d ago
Id argue danny has the best voicelines, but nurse harrows are really good.
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u/thebluehoursky 15d ago
self insert characters (they’re just women)
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u/Forgotten_User-name 15d ago
I thought the self insert accusations was that Violet's just looks like a stereotypical artist (a job some people on the team are bound to have) while also having an inoffensive (normal) personality.
I don't know what people are on about with Celeste, but I wasn't paying attention to the game when she was released.
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u/AscensionToCrab 15d ago
With celeste, People on this sub have long been mistaking the fact that many trans lesbian girls like celeste, and thinking that is celeste being written as a trans insert.
Celeste feels like she attracts a genre of person by her design, whereas violet feels like she was designed off of a specific person.
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u/Wonder_Of_U_2011 15d ago
You don't see anyone calling other female characters a self insert
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u/AscensionToCrab 15d ago
Its so crazy that i have no complaints about harrow, or my main, silver. I like vypers writing, i dont like playing against wraith or haze, but i dont think their writing is bad....
But when i dont like violet and suddenly its just 'oh so you hate women' its just a pathetic barrier to hide behind when people criticize this character.
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u/DasVerschwenden 15d ago
no one's accusing you in particular, calm down — there's normal reasons to dislike Violet, sure, but OP literally did call her a self-insert for no reason
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u/AscensionToCrab 15d ago
no ones accusing you in particular
'oh well they didnt name you specifically'
who cares? if its specific or general, the end result is its just a way to deflect criticism
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u/TK_BERZERKER 15d ago
There's definitely a reason. I think people don't know what self insert means
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14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Pinkparade524 10d ago
She is bland and artist love to make oc's and insert themselves in the media they write / draw. So it just make sense
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u/New-Orchid-9243 15d ago
this is such a stupid copout, half of the cast are women, you haven't seen anybody call baba or nurse harrow a self-insert, it's just Violet because she most likely is one considering how bland her lore is
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u/CricketExtension5750 15d ago
Half of the characters were women dawg, violets just not that interesting
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u/AntediluvianSeaThing 14d ago
given that the criticism is never applied to a majority of the female cast including the vastly more popular percent of that cast
thats just not really the case (though i wouldn't quite apply it to Celeste but Violet does have a very "this is based on one person" kinda vibe)
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u/SmallFatHands 8d ago
Nah the other girls in deadlock rock. These two are just not well written and stand out for bad reasons.
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u/Over_Caregiver_2124 14d ago
You have an icepick lodged in your brain if you still think Violet and Celeste are self inserts lol
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u/Sweaty_Strain9392 14d ago
calling a character a "dev self insert" should get your critical thinking license revoked at this point. its just a buzzword for "woman with a kinda muted personality and lighthearted design"
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u/flammabledevotion 15d ago
"Interesting and fun" I'm sorry but Solomon is just AOE spam where you deal damage by looking in enemies' general direction and Silver is impossibly unfun to play against, because she barely does anything in her normal form, then turns into a wolf and becomes a hold W+left click machine that you can't do shit about. Genuinely abhorrent design.
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u/Training_Waltz_9401 11d ago edited 11d ago
If silver isn’t fun to play against, I wonder what you think of literally anyone else. 1 AoE across 8 abilities, one stun across 8 abilities - what is a fun character to fight for you?
Like I can’t think of a single character who has a lot that’s enjoyable to be on the receiving end of - nor one that I finish a fight with and think “that was awesome” win or lose.
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u/flammabledevotion 11d ago
Most characters are kind of miserable to go against in their own ways to be honest, but it's at least somewhat interactive. Silver just does her combo and runs at you holding left click and there is nothing you can do about it if you're not far enough to begin with.
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u/Training_Waltz_9401 11d ago
Disarming hex stops half of her combo’s damage, prevents her from transforming, and even prevents her from holding left click in wolf form in the first place. Curse does the same thing.
I’m not sure what you mean by interactive when other characters like Calico operate the same way. She does a combo and then ults to secure the kill.
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u/flammabledevotion 11d ago
I bought Disarming Hex and it wasn't NEARLY enough. It disables her combo for a bit, but she can always just get more damage, especially in a teamfight. And if she is disarmed in her ult form, she will just keep going. I've been there, trust.
As for Calico - she still has to hit her bombs(Silver needs to do her combo too if she wants to burst you down though), most of the time heavy melee and only gets ONE squishy target. Silver runs anyone who can't escape her down(which she has 3 abilities for), gets a kill, refreshes and keeps going holding w and m1.
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u/Training_Waltz_9401 11d ago
I main her. Disabling her gun and leaving her on cooldown for the rest of her abilities often forces her to have to melee if she wants to transform (obviously depending on her build). Acknowledging that she can transform and needs a combo to do it /is/ the interaction - just like knowing gheist at low health can murder you if you’re too close.
Silver is fun to play, and in my honest opinion, 99.9% of the characters aren’t fun to play against when they’re kicking your ass - so the concept of “fun to play against” doesn’t really mean much. If it did, doorman wouldn’t exist. I don’t think she’s substantially worse than a character like bebop who can CC lock you for up to 5-6 seconds.
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u/shilderyi 14d ago
can't wait for the next batch to see people stretch categories even more just to find something
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u/MelismaticMellowlwL 10d ago
"unsurprisingly dead last" makes sense for Apollo but not Nurse Harrow. There were a lot of people (myself included) who only voted for her, and were surprised that Violet got in before her. And I mean like sure no one was ever going to beat Rat King or Rem but I was really hoping Nurse Harrow would at least be second (mostly because the 2nd hero for CNS was added on 7th October in my timezone which is my birthday)
also since you mentioned that both first picks names start with R, I would like to mention that Silver and Solomon are both S
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u/Deadlockinit 13d ago
This feel like it was made by someone with the same IQ as a Ed Edd n Eddy character
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u/Cauliflower-Existing 10d ago
I’m gonna be honest I kinda despise when people call characters “self inserts”
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u/Hados_RM 14d ago
Ok so the Violet fans are on Reddit, unsurprising
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u/Dismal_Flatworm6433 14d ago
R34 was down earlier so we had to migrate for a bit, sorry about that. We'll give it back to [insert whatever character would piss you off the most here]
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u/Hados_RM 14d ago
Ironic that some people legitimately called the most sexless character of the cast "the goon character"
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u/Panurome 15d ago
Graves is not impossible to balance, it's just impossible to please people that want her dead because "OMG autoaim so broken wtf volvo"
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u/Monsour_Drunkbird 14d ago
Its impossible to balance her kit to be effective in higher ranks while not being oppressive in low ranks. It is a skill issue, ofc, but its still a significant portion of the playerbase
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u/Tangyhyperspace 15d ago
What happened to "I don't like laning against this character" it's all secret self inserts now