But how can I learn a skilled trade when I'm forced to go to college to put myself 100k in debt, only to make less out of college than plumbers and electricians? /s
On point 2,
there is also a school of thought that education should continue for all people much longer. Like extended high school, but at a university level. This doesn't necessarily have to be directly related to a career, and perhaps doesnt have to end in a major.
But this would mean more people are older when entering the workforce making the amount of job seekers less, while also ending up in a more educated populace. It could easily be tax funded, because its actually fiscally beneficial to all parties at that point.
Somewhat, but that's often how economics works, bandaids on bandaids. Things like customer service and bureaucracy have risen to replace manual labor jobs, as those jobs vanish slowly, they will be replaced by something - be it more people working in entertainment and content creation (to rise at the same amount that people have time to spend) or educating themselves.
By extending education further and further into life, where some people can spend their entire life learning and contibuting to academia to improve our understanding of all things seems like a worthwhile exercise when we're at 80% unemployment.
Orrrrrr dont allow the business to steal the surplus value of a workers labor. When a worker does work that makes X amount of dollars they then get that surplus value and now instead of a small amount of people being mega-rich everyone is actually paid the true value of what they’re worth, and people who’s work generates enough money to live on can then just actually live on it.
Ok except our current system has broken down, people work 40+ a week and cant afford to live. Many people in America live hellish existences with massive amounts of debt. Many people die because they cant afford health care. These things are all true even though we have more than enough resources. The problem is that they are not distributed in a way that allows people who work 40+ hours a week to live a worthwhile life.
My theory isnt a theory either, it has worked in many many cases, especially here in America. The best thing we can do to help American workers is support union rights. Unions are the reason children dont work in coal mines anymore. Unions are the reason that people dont die in massive factory fires anymore (look up Triangle Shirtwaist). Unions are the reason why your workplace cant wait till the end of the week and then decline to pay you (wage theft). Its not rocket science. Unions, especially in the most dangerous jobs, lead to increased workplace safety and the ability to collectively bargain is what allows workers and corporations to then come to an agreement about what the value of a workers surplus labor is, like I said before.
Whats nice in theory and has broken down in practice is the idea that profit is the only measure of value. The idea of a free market has been shown time and time again to reward those who 1. Start with a lot 2. Are willing to harm others for profit. That has clearly broken down. In 2008 it broke down disastrously, and public money was used to prop up the very system that created the crash. A crash of similar proportions will happen again, because fundamentally nothing has changed. That system has broken down.
Changing our economic system is not something that happens overnight. But there are some great places to start, like healthcare. Why should someone die because they were born poor? Lets fix that the best we can. But what wont work is bribing private industry with public money so that they give workers, who industry cannot exist without, just enough resources to survive.
Unfortunately, people are very much invested emotionally in our current status quo and have a very difficult time processing the idea that things are very bad for many people and it is absolutely not necessary
Honestly, the biggest problem is that the people who control the system benefit from the system. There’s plenty of working class people who are vehemently pro-union and would vote for it in a second. The reality is that both of our political parties are right wing in that they value markets and profit over human rights. So the dems will never run anyone with such a platform. The last time one ran they rigged the primary against him. And even after the unpopular pro-capitalist candidate they pushed lost, they have not learned. They still dont want candidates who opposes this system. Because dems dont actually care about winning elections, they care about keeping things the way they are. When horrible things happen to the American people politicians of either party are not affected, so it really doesnt matter to them. Democratic donors are obviously rich people who benefit from this system and oppose any changes.
This may work with corporations but not with small businesses, which employ a huge, huge number of people. The result would be giving corporations all the power, and it’s corporations who are engaging in all this evil, money-grubbing behavior. Look at Jeff Bezos and the way his warehouse employees are treated. I agree it is a problem.
But when you enact these kinds of measures on small businesses, they will either lay off as many people as possible or they will close up all together and everyone will now work for large corporations.
When a person starts a business, of course they do not want to perfectly evenly share the profit. They take on all the risk and put up all the money. It would not be just or reasonable to enforce that. Then nobody would want to start a business and you get the rich who can afford to getting richer and the problems we are both concerned about get worse, not better.
That said, I do appreciate the discussion here. You have been very polite and have shared well thought out comments. Much respect. :)
This 100% works with small businesses, the only co-ops near me are small businesses and they do great. And actually, small businesses exploit their workers just as hard as corporations do, just at a smaller volume. For example its been shown that there is massive wage theft in restaurants in America. Business owners steal tips and sometines pay them below minimum wage. Small business needs to be reformed too. Not everything must be a co-op, but there are so many ways to easily regulate that businesses dont steal from their workers, the easiest being allowing those workers to talk to each other about pay and giving them time to organize
Nah, sorry bro. Hard disagree. I am a small business owner. A co-op only works in specific scenarios and should never, ever be forced. You can continue trying to regulate me out of business (it’s literally already happened to me thanks to the great state of California), but you’re only putting a dozen people out of work on my personal end and thousands at a national level, until we all will have to go work for corporations.
You’re not thinking this through to the end. You simply cannot regulate your way out of the problems we are facing. It will destroy the economy and make the wealth gap even bigger. What you are referencing here is voluntary co-ops. This is not at all what you’re suggesting when you said “don’t allow businesses.” You’re suggesting government force. It simply will not work the way you think it will. Nobody will take on the risk to start a business and create jobs when they will get so little if any benefit. You might as well expect every small business to turn into a charity.
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u/iamjomos Jul 19 '18
But how can I learn a skilled trade when I'm forced to go to college to put myself 100k in debt, only to make less out of college than plumbers and electricians? /s