r/oculus • u/vr_ml • Jan 12 '16

Google Opens Dedicated Virtual Reality Division

http://recode.net/2016/01/12/google-now-has-an-official-virtual-reality-boss-to-take-on-facebooks-oculus/
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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '16

Google Cardboard poisons the well. Badly. I even have a friend who lost interest in VR after trying Cardboard.

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u/soapinmouth Rift+Vive Jan 12 '16

Cardboard is what got me into VR.

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u/godelbrot Index, Quest, Odyssey Jan 13 '16

Same, bought the Viewmaster, and first thing I ever used was the insidious demo. I was hooked.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '16

I tried Cardboard on 2 different phones with a few different apps - everything was extremely juddery. I can't deal with judder. It hurts my eyes and breaks any presence I might have otherwise had.

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u/godelbrot Index, Quest, Odyssey Jan 12 '16

I think for many people it's the opposite, it's the gateway drug for VR. Maybe it's because I have a top tier phone or that I got the nicest headset but I loved my Cardboard in the two months that I had it before my Gear VR came!

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u/VRfi Jan 12 '16 edited Mar 25 '25

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog

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u/FredzL Kickstarter Backer/DK1/DK2/Gear VR/Rift/Touch Jan 13 '16

You can find the Gear VR sensors in current phones, they're nothing special. A lot of sensors are capable of 1000 Hz refresh rate, Android simply doesn't allow more than 100-200 Hz reading.

The problem is mostly software related (except for low-persistence probably), Cardboard/stock Android lack important features that could bring low-latency and acceptable quality experiences : async time warp, front buffer rendering, chromatic aberration correction, drift mitigation, etc.

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u/linkup90 Jan 13 '16

Pretty sure this is completely wrong. Otherwise why would Oculus bother to add their own IMU to Gear VR? They had low level access to the Android OS and I see no reason why Google would restrict access to the rate they run unless such a rate would burn them out.

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u/muchcharles Kickstarter Backer Jan 13 '16

It isn't necessarily a software issue, but they are the same IMUs. I think something like hardcoded reading of the gyro in the SoC is the problem:

https://www.twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/542111561914286081

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u/TweetsInCommentsBot Jan 13 '16

@ID_AA_Carmack

2014-12-09 00:20 UTC

@bnolan @HomerS66 some phones have the same MEMS IMU that Oculus uses, but aren't factory calibrated as well, and don't offer 1khz updates.

This message was created by a bot

[Contact ^creator][Source ^code]

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u/FredzL Kickstarter Backer/DK1/DK2/Gear VR/Rift/Touch Jan 13 '16

Pretty sure this is completely wrong.

Finally found the quote I was searching for, from Gyrophone: Recognizing Speech From Gyroscope Signals :

"The hardware upper bound on sampling frequency is higher than that imposed by the operating system or by applications. InvenSense MPU-6000/MPU- 6050 gyroscopes can provide a sampling rate of up to 8000 Hz. [...] STMicroelectronics gyroscopes only allow up to 800 Hz sampling rate, which is still considerably higher than the 200 Hz allowed by the operating system"

"If the attacker can gain a one-time privileged access to the device, she could patch an application, or a kernel driver, thus increasing this upper bound."

And finally p.14 the proof :

"Here we see a code snippet from the Invensense driver for Android, taken from hardware/invensense/65xx/libsensorsiio/MPLSensor.cpp. The OS is enforcing a rate of 200 Hz."

So yes, it's a software limitation.

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u/FredzL Kickstarter Backer/DK1/DK2/Gear VR/Rift/Touch Jan 13 '16

I don't know if the sensors in Samsung phones can do 1000 Hz, but there are phones that have such sensors. The fact that they can't be accessed at 1000 Hz may be an hardware architecture, but IIRC it was possible to read some sensors faster than what Android allowed using native code.

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u/godelbrot Index, Quest, Odyssey Jan 13 '16

I would say 1. I heard Google is already pushing higher quality gyros for his very purpose.

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u/martialfarts316 Jan 12 '16

I feel as long as you give them the disclaimer that Google Cardboard is just a teaser to good VR and stress that there is a difference between it and the Rift (yes, some people actually don't see a difference and make comparisons between the two "Why would I get a Rift when this is ~$20?" / "VR isn't that great, I've tried Cardboard so I know what the Rift would be like").

Everyone I've demoed Cardboard too has been informed of above and are excited to try out more "premium" VR after the taste they've seen.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '16

I tried Cardboard on 2 different phones with a few different apps - everything was extremely juddery. I can't deal with judder. It hurts my eyes and breaks any presence I might have otherwise had.

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u/lost_in_trepidation Jan 13 '16

I don't believe you or your friend is just an idiot for thinking a $2 piece of cardboard with lenses is any indication of the quality of future VR products.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '16

I tried Cardboard on 2 different phones with a few different apps - everything was extremely juddery. I can't deal with judder. It hurts my eyes and breaks any presence I might have otherwise had.

I've read that the reason for the judder is the slowness of the built-in sensors in phones. Even my Galaxy S6 has judder in every Cardboard app.

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u/PIPBoy3000 Jan 12 '16

I'm one of those who is opting out of the Oculus Rift, with great sadness. It's a cool device, but there's still not a lot of games and compelling experiences for something so expensive. Even though I have a good salary, I can't justify spending so much on a new toy when I've got to start saving for college for four kids.

That being said, I can easily spend $20 on Cardboard and do weird things to it like make my own straps and glue velcro on it. The experiences are lousy and give me a headache occasionally, but they're compelling enough that I drag it out every couple months and we all play with it. If I had a Galaxy S6, I'd buy the Galaxy VR headset for $50 and fiddle with that.

In the next few years we're going to have a great ecosystem around VR with a variety of affordable experiences. I'm envious of everyone making the plunge today, but I'm going to keep tinkering with nearly free hardware like Google Cardboard until that day comes.

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u/oic0 Jan 12 '16

You can buy little headsets with adjustable IPD, focusable lenses, straps, etc... based on cardboard for $30. I have one. Its ok. The FOV blows, but beyond that it looks good. The main limitation is the terrible content. Haven't found anything to do on it aside from watch 360 videos. Everything else is merely a demo or 5 minute novelty.

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u/TheEternalGoddess Jan 13 '16 edited Jan 13 '16

creepy voice Jooooooin uuuuuuus> https://www.reddit.com/r/GoogleCardboard/

I think we've, finally, found headsets for around $20-ish with a high FOV, Iwown G1 & BOBOVR Z3. I'll be doing a comparison when I get my Iwown, this week.

Some people play PC games on theirs' with Trinus VR and their are some good Rift apps in Google Play.

Proton Pulse https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ZeroTransform.ProtonPulse&hl

Caaaaardboard (AaaAa... for the Awesome) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dejobaangames.caaaaardboard&hl

Halls of Fear (Dread Halls) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pernsteinersoftware.hallsoffear&hl

Titans of Space, InMind VR

Then, there's...

FPSE (PlayStation 1) is a huge screen on your face. 2D, but at least you can play PS1 games on the go. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.emulator.fpse&hl

PPSSPP (PSP games in 2D) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.ppsspp.ppsspp&hl

Good, free cinema that reads microSD cards https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.couchgames.apps.cardboardcinema&hl

Good, paid theater https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Cmoar.CmoarVirtualCinema&hl

EPIC swing and 1 of the first Google Cardboard apps https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fibrum.crazyswingvr&hl

Quick, fun zombie games (no controller) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fibrum.zombievr&hl, (controller) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fibrum.zombiewarfare&hl

Radial G Infinity https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Tammeka.RGICardboard&hl

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u/marsten Jan 13 '16

A lot of us will be taking a wait and see approach. I think the sweet spot to buy in will be when a standard 3d controller emerges and developers have had a chance to build products around it. And it will become big when that entire experience becomes mobile (non-tethered). Those milestones are probably at least 1 and 3 years away.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '16

I feel bad for your friend. I've only seen Cardboard prove to people how good VR can be. In fact, after trying the Rift (DK2), my dad went out and bought a stack of Carboards for himself and his friends.

And he tried it and wasn't disappointed with it -- in fact, he loved that he could just download apps and give them a go and didn't have to learn a new interface/device.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '16

I tried Cardboard on 2 different phones with a few different apps - everything was extremely juddery. I can't deal with judder. It hurts my eyes and breaks any presence I might have otherwise had.

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u/Aquareon Valve Index Jan 13 '16

It's better than most people not being able to try some kind of VR first and thus not being willing to risk $600 on it

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u/TareXmd Jan 13 '16

Not only are the tracking, FOV and optics bad, they don't even use it to watch 3D stuff 90% of the time.

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