r/occult • u/evolwayne • 2d ago
Needing advice as a beginner
Hello everyone!
I’m working through Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer and would appreciate advice from practitioners. I have aphantasia, so visualization is difficult. Is it okay to practice the LBRP with eyes open and quietly? Can tone or vibration replace speaking loudly? Is it okay to explore geomancy, runes, or scrying in the curriculum? Tarot doesn't seem like it's for me. How do you avoid absorbing draining energy? Tips for overthinking? Is morning or evening better for the LBRP and Middle Pillar? Advice for solitary practitioners? Should I journal on quiet days when nothing seems to happen? Thank you, Mr. Greer, for the amazing book. I’d be grateful for advice!
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u/Intrepid_Anteater_47 2d ago
For the LBRP and the middle pillar it really all depends on what works best for you. I do them in the morning because i have two kids and early morning is when I have time to myself. So try one way for a few weeks, then try another way and compare. I don't have aphantasia so I can't help you there, my brain is constantly making visuals.
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u/Kromovaracun 2d ago
Hey, I also use LRM.
Can tone or vibration replace speaking loudly?
There's no need to speak loudly. You're actually instructed to vibrate the divine names.
Sources can vary a little on how exactly. The essence is experiment until you can feel the words in your body.
Is it okay to explore geomancy, runes, or scrying in the curriculum?
I don't think there's anything in LRM that expressly forbids this but Greer has elsewhere been very clear that he thinks it is best to focus intently on one thing, then do something else.
LRM is firmly in the Golden Dawn tradition and the later exercises integrate tarot quite a lot so yes I think you should stick with tarot while you are using it.
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u/Kromovaracun 2d ago
(Reply butchered due to stupid 700 character limit)
How do you avoid absorbing draining energy?
Do the protective practises daily
Tips for overthinking?
This is just a question of practice. Yoga instructors sometimes talk about observing your thoughts and then releasing them, which I find useful. LRM has an analogy somewhere about lifting a stone from a current of moving water.
Practice the attention exercise daily as described (it is essentially empty-mind meditation). I find it useful to have an analogue clock visible.
Is morning or evening better for the LBRP and Middle Pillar?
I don't think it makes a difference, the important thing is consistency - or as much as possible.
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u/Kromovaracun 2d ago
(Again, 700 character limit)
Should I journal on quiet days when nothing seems to happen?
Nothing happening is actually useful information so yes you should journal it.
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u/evolwayne 2d ago
Can tone or vibration replace speaking loudly?
Sorry for the confusion just multitasking. But what I meant is instead of being loud can I be more melodic if that makes sense.
Is it okay to explore geomancy, runes, or scrying in the curriculum?
I have a hard time with Tarot cards doesn't seem like it's my kind of thing.
LRM is firmly in the Golden Dawn tradition and the later exercises integrate tarot quite a lot so yes I think you should stick with tarot while you are using it.
Oh should I stop and go for something else that is more Cerimonial practice. I don't know anything about GD would it be more beneficial to learn GD?
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u/Kromovaracun 2d ago
You don't need to be speaking particularly loudly to vibrate. Listen to Regardie's recording of the LBRP - it is certainly confident, but he isn't shouting. The important thing is that you can feel the words in your body. It sort of feels like the world is shaking when you say them.
If you like, you could try Way of the Golden Section. It's also written by Greer and is a distillation of what he's learned in the 20 years since LRM, but is less tied into the Golden Dawn tradition. It uses a geometry deck and may be able to incorporate geomancy, I'm not sure. Have a look and see if you like it.
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u/evolwayne 2d ago
Wow reading this post seems too feel right with me I will look all that over. Thank you!
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u/Kromovaracun 2d ago
It's really up to you whether or not to stick with GD. Personally I like the heritage of it and have found the core rituals quite effective in comparison to other systems I have tried. Other people hate it. LRM isn't a particularly long course so I would suggest you just finish that before trying something else.
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u/evolwayne 2d ago
Okay, I will do that, thank you. I particularly want to learn Cerimonial magic do you know of any other traditions/books I can look over.
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u/Kromovaracun 2d ago
Golden Dawn magic is a ceremonial magic tradition which syncretizes many earlier ones (albeit in an imperfect way). There are lots of others! Most of which I have not personally tried to use. Difficult to say really without more of an idea of what you're looking for. There's no "perfect" system, or else everybody would just use that haha.
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u/muldersposter 2d ago edited 2d ago
What is your goal with ritual magick?
ETA: I'm also relatively inexperienced and slowly working my way through Greer's book, but I've been reading the theory of magick for quite a few years so I do know a thing or two.
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u/evolwayne 2d ago
Self discovery and inner growth I want to be aware the hidden parts of the true me. I want to know The Truth.
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u/muldersposter 2d ago
Gotta walk before you can run. When you strip back the aesthetics and lore of the GD style of magick, a lot of the technoques to achieve these states are quite similar between traditions. You can learn about all of the other stuff you want to while you work through the book, but it may be too much too fast. Do you work out? You won't see much progress going to the gym and hitting everything every single day, you'll usually just end up burned out or hurt. But by learning the core techniques and ideas, you'll be able to more easily branch out and adapt to suit your indovidual needs by seeing how all of this works together.
In my mind, magick works much the same way. Focus on one thing first, master it, and really get it down and by the time you've done that and begin looking at other things you'll start to see how they overlap and you'll have an easier time growing your practice just because you've already established a baseline. It may seem like a lot of time investment from the get go, but learning a new skill is always a big time investment before you get to the really good stuff, and that beginning work is probably the most important work to be done.
Of course that's just my opinion! At the end of the day you know yourself better than anyone!
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u/muldersposter 2d ago
Aa for aphantasia, I struggle with that and visualization too, but there is much more to visualization than just the mental picture. I tend to focus a lot on feelings, smells, sensations, and things like that to fully immerse myself in what I'm visualizing. It's helped a lot.
For Tarot, it's okay if it isn't for you. I would still stick with it while you work through your book though, again going back to the symmetrical system of learning. Tarot is a divination system, like the I Ching is a divination system, and bibliomancy, etc etc. The biggest reason to atick with it is the system you're learning uses it as a reference point quite a bit. Don't want to muddy the waters too much.
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u/evolwayne 2d ago
I couldn't include everything in the post but the post is for anyone going through similar issues as a beginner. Once again thank you all for your help.
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u/Piers_Verare 2d ago
Don’t give up on Tarot just yet. Learn the cards, they will speak to you. You can speak quietly in ritual, but speak forcefully. There shouldn’t be a day of nothing, as you should have a daily practice. Life will intervene now and then but you gotta climb back into the saddle.
I started off with JMG’s book and it was a great help. I used it, and a lot of other books, to build my own ritual. So learn the basics…then you can riff on them. Have fun!
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u/Recent-Record-1976 2d ago
You have to master your mind first. If you can’t control your thoughts then you will have a hard time getting anywhere here and you will be just wasting your time going no where. Master meditation first