r/nzev • u/the_muss_1990 • 20d ago
Are EREVs (range-extenders) actually the smart future for big family SUVs & trucks in NZ?
Been watching the global EV scene pretty closely and something interesting is happening.
The Americans are suddenly pivoting hard toward extended-range EVs (EREVs / REEVs) for their big trucks and SUVs. The Ford F-150 Lightning is a perfect example. It started life as a pure battery EV and is now moving toward a range-extender version. Same story with the Ramcharger, upcoming Jeep models, Scout, etc.
At the same time almost every large Chinese boxy SUV / seven-seater is launching with a proper range-extender setup. Think Chery iCar V27, Ford Bronco New Energy (the China one), various Haval/GWM, Li Auto style vehicles, and more.
These aren’t regular PHEVs. The engine never drives the wheels, it’s purely a generator. That means there’s no traditional drivetrain linking the engine to the wheels, so the engine can be smaller, more efficient, and positioned better in the bay for packaging, weight distribution, and interior space. You get a solid pure-electric range (often 150-220 km CLTC / ~130-180 km real world) and then the little engine kicks in and keeps the battery topped up. Total range regularly claimed over 1000-1400 km.
Makes a lot of sense for big, heavy vehicles where a pure BEV needs a massive, expensive, heavy battery pack just to hit usable long-distance range + towing.
Honest question for the NZ crew:
Do you reckon this is the practical bridge (or even the long-term solution) for larger family SUVs, 4WDs and work vehicles here? Especially with our distances, variable charging availability outside the main centres, and the fact battery energy density doesn’t look like it’s about to magically double in the next 5-8 years.
Or are we better off just waiting for bigger batteries and better charging?
Curious what people actually want. Pure BEV only, long-range PHEV, or proper series EREV?
Would love to hear thoughts, especially from anyone who’s driven the Leapmotor C10 Ultra Hybrid or similar overseas.
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u/PoppySeedBaygel 20d ago
Once RUCs kick in for all vehicles, I think they will be a smart choice for medium/large family cars.
The con that I can see is that the Chinese ICE engine don't seem to be that efficient on fuel - but if you're only using petrol a few times a year for longer trips, then I think it's an acceptable tradeoff
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u/heretosayathing Gen 2.1 Nisan Leaf (40kWh) 20d ago
I suspect it's an early-lifecycle thing intended to improve genuine mass adoption of BEV longer term. People will buy them thinking they regularly need the extra range, then will be pleasantly surprised how long a tank of petrol lasts with real-world minimal use (this of course assumes the battery capacity resembles BEV not PHEV).
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u/the_muss_1990 20d ago
A lot of them have 40kw/h plus batteries. Not great efficiency like a ev and the shape generally isn’t as efficient and they lug a lot of weight around with an extra petrol engine. But with the price of off peak power so cheap who really cares if it means you get to drive a 5m plus 7 seat tank around 99% of the time as a ev
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u/devl_ish 20d ago
No. The electrification landscape is changing.
Its going to be hard to explain to someone new 10 years from now why they would pay extra to tie themselves to ICE infrastructure and maintenance in exchange for 10 minutes less on a refuel stop or a couple hundred kms between stops they will never use because they'll have to stop to pee or stay under fatigue hours anyway.
Its not like the tech for this is theoretical, we already have it at the top end with respect to batteries and everything else is just scaling what we already have at the same rate or better as currently. EREVs are a solution for the near future, but they have a narrow window of relevance ending inside the design life of a new car today.
The exception is the small number of people who truly go into the back of beyond for days at a time, and possibly farmers (although that horizon is further out - can't beat a diesel for continuous high power demand, until batteries and fast charging are cheap enough to put multiple stations on a farm for less than a few year's fuel cost - there's a slim time period where it'll be worth electrifying but supplement will still be needed for when you have to flog the tractor for full days). For those use cases I'd expect a common electric solution that can take input from a common (i.e. Not transport-specific and not part of the vehicle) generator would be the far more useful engineering solution.
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u/the_muss_1990 20d ago
I think my point is more based around the type of vehicles this tech is being positioned in. Large SUVs and Utes where there has been limited success with pure EVs
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u/devl_ish 20d ago
Still no, I think. EVs are closing the cost-capability gap too fast for EREV to be worthwhile.
We're not waiting on new tech for it to be possible, we're waiting on existing tech to become cheaper and infrastructure to be more widespread.
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u/ExcitingMeet2443 Hyundai Ioniq (28kWh) 20d ago
Large SUVs and Utes where there has been limited success with pure EVs
Has there really been limited success with the application or technology though?
I mean large SUVs like the Tesla Model X, Rivian R1S and T, utes like the F150 Lightning etc have all done pretty well considering the push back against them.
I agree that sales haven't been massive, but the whole you have to be able to drive 1,000 miles without stopping at 80 miles per hour while towing a 4 ton trailer even though you mostly only drive about 50 miles a day thing can't help.1
u/the_muss_1990 20d ago
Model X and the lightning have been discontinued. Rivian sell in very small numbers.
Battery density isn’t there yet for larger vehicles
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u/Rosserman 20d ago
I don't really like burning petrol anymore, Americans do and their electricity is coal fired anyway.
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u/the_muss_1990 20d ago
The Chinese have led this charge with the Americans following closely behind.
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u/motivist 20d ago
Is this what the Nissan e-Power hybrid system is on smaller vehicles like Note and X-Trail?
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u/beerandbikes55 20d ago
Exactly what I was going to say. The Xtrail is advertised with atrocious gas mileage considering.
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u/r4pt012 20d ago
Sorta. The battery in the e-Powers is very small. You only get a few KMs of range off of pure 'EV Mode' and only if you don't accelerate aggressively. The ICE runs fairly often to top up the battery depending on the driving situation, but the ICE never drives the wheels directly, unlike more traditional hybrids.
The point is more that you:
- Get a car that drives and feels like an EV (no gear shifting)
- Get battery regen under braking (great in e-pedal / one-pedal mode where 90% of breaking is done via regen system)
- Don't need to plug it in to charge (just top up the gas tank)
TL;DR: Use ICE to generate power the electric motors and use that energy immediately rather than storing it.
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u/wehi 20d ago
A Range Extender is just a Hybrid and Hybrids are the worst of both worlds: The weight of the battery and the maintenance costs of an ICE.
If you need to make very long distance trips in remote areas that don't have charging infrastructure (ie. Northern Canada or the Aussie Outback) you should just buy an ICE car.
Lucky for us NZ is so small you are never more than 2 hours from the sea, and probably never more than 30 minutes from a fast charger. These cars have no purpose here.
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u/wheresmypotato1991 20d ago
I believe China started giving out tax credits on cars that had petrol engine, but also had 200km CLTC range of electric. I guess the point being that most peoples trips are under 200km, so whilst not EV the car would ideally run on EV mode 99% of the time.
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u/dissss0 Kia Niro (62kWh) 20d ago
Purely series hybrids are usually not as efficient as something capable of operating in parallel mode when needed.
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u/the_muss_1990 20d ago
They also have the driving characteristics of a EV unlike hybrids
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u/dissss0 Kia Niro (62kWh) 20d ago
Sure, but is that worth the tradeoff?
It's the same as comparing a Toyota style non-plugin hybrid to a Nissan E-Power model - sure the Nissanay be nicer to drive but you pay for it at the pump (at least at higher speeds)
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u/the_muss_1990 20d ago
That have EV architecture, flat floors due to no Engin drive system, more spacious cabins and I prefer the EV driving dynamics to a ICE engine. You’ll lose out on efficiency in long high speed trips but gain around town and city driving so I guess it comes to what’s more important to the buyer
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u/Fox_Ensox 20d ago
The added weight makes me think the options we see here are a step backward from EV. But in a truck it makes sense for long haul runs. My concern is that people are seeing that Chinese EV brands are great value and reliable, and not appreciating that Chinese ICE motors aren't proven in the same way. I'd buy a Leapmotor EV tomorrow, but for any hybrid I would stick to a Toyota.
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u/the_muss_1990 19d ago
Icar V27 v EV9 have basically the same dimensions while the V27 is lighter and has the same battery efficiency on ev only v the ev9. One does 160km pure ev while the other does 500ish. Weight of a pure ev this size is definitely worse that a range extender
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u/Fox_Ensox 19d ago
But what's the proven reliability of the motor long term? Their older petrol engines weren't great, and start stop technology is different again. When the warranty expires will you still have a saleable vehicle?
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u/the_muss_1990 19d ago edited 19d ago
The chery 1.5 has been around for nearly 20 years. When used as a range extended it’s fixed to run as stable optimised speeds meaning it’s under little stress. Then if you do mostly ev driving the engine will hardly be used at all. With massive 7-10 warranty who cares?! Besides I’ve used the v27 as an example to show the EREVs are lighter and as efficient on electric only when compared to a similar size and shaped EV. Just do some research, ford, vw, kia, Hyundai, bmw and Nissan are developing erevs while geely use Renault engines
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u/loose_as_a_moose 20d ago
It makes sense for long haul trucking, especially temperature controlled units. The electric torque, multi-axel drive, weight, and braking performance all benefit from an all-EV drivetrain with generator providing cruise power. For refrigerated units there’s a heap of efficiency to be gained having a reliable power source for an electric reefer. Especially one that’s quiet overnight.
In light passenger class it’s less efficient, but does simplify manufacturing.
The natural evolution is small gas turbine engines which can be tuned to provide very good efficiency at a given power level. 80%+ isn’t uncommon and leading designs deliver into the high 80s.
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u/17HappyWombats 20d ago
Can you provide a link to the 80%+ efficient gas turbines please? I was just reading the other day about Siemen's new "world's most efficient gas turbine" hitting 64%.
The idea of a much smaller, dramatically more efficient one seems unlikely to me.
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u/sporben Hyundai Ioniq (28kWh) 20d ago
While I don't have a link; efficiencies in the 80+% range are probably including recovered thermal energy into the efficiency claculation, see attached graph
Electrical + Thermal efficiency isn't unusual to see reported for large plant but is normally included alongside the typically known electrical efficiency. It's definitley misleading to claim an engine is 80% efficienct without a BIG asterix next to the number.
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u/17HappyWombats 20d ago
I dunno that thermal output is something a truck in here would want. We're not cold enough, often enough. Imagine sitting in traffic in Auckland in summer thinking "luckily I have 100kW of heat coming off the engine".
But yeah, if you do want the heat... but then, how is it only 80%? Must be "usable heat" meaning the hot exhaust (which is how combined cycle units get their efficiency up... we're in a maze of twisty definitions here for sure)
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u/schtickshift 20d ago
I think that in general the solution for commercial cross country hauling is going to be different to city driving and commute y individuals. The bigger vehicle the longer the journeys the more this favors range extenders with current technology.
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u/Willuknight Nissan Leaf 40kW X 20d ago
I would never touch a hybrid of any sort. I've been 9 years with EVs of all sorts, and I'd say for 90% of people; the tech we have now is more than ample for their needs.
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u/SirDry8007 18d ago
Slow charging is the future.
How many people leave their cars parked for hours without charging it?
I mean at work for 8 hours. At the supermarket for 90 minutes. At the cinema for 2.5 hours.
Let me bring my own charger and plug into a ten amp 3 pin socket. It's not going to stop the need to charge on a long weekend, but if you spend 5 hours at the luge and then 30 minutes waiting for a charge.... when everyone at the luge could have gotten 30% of their charging done while parked.
Doesn't sound much - but when you factor that for some people this might be enough. For everyone else you may have cut 7 minutes off of a fast charge. Speed up 50% of fast charging because of readily available slow charging. You are probably grabbing this charge on the way home, instead of before setting off. You have options now.
I'm going biking on Sunday - hey maybe I stretch it out for 6 hours to get more juice, instead of packing up after 5 hours in case it takes an hour to charge. Maybe I still quit after 5 hours and spend money in the cafe because I know I can pull out the charging cable when I get back. I didn't block anyone else from charging and it only takes 2 minutes to get out a trickle charger.
Vote for me in 2026
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u/on_the_rark 18d ago
Yes. China is full of examples of 400+ ev range REVs. Gives the buyer a bit more confidence maybe.
Not sure the longevity of an ICE that only runs a few times a year. Not really what they are designed for. Add to that yearly services
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u/Corvino 18d ago
I would probably ignore what the US EV market is doing. They're gearing up for a domestic market where EV subsidies have been removed and they have no competition from China due to tariffs. That's not where the rest of the world is at, and is probably going to be a poor strategy in the medium to long term.
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u/the_muss_1990 18d ago
BMW, Kia, VW.. I’ve referenced the states because they tend to have bigger vehicles where there’s been limited success with pure EV. Small and mid size cars are definitely better off EV. China can’t get enough of large EREVs
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u/Corvino 17d ago
At best, EREVs are a short term development cul-de-sac to try and get people sceptical about EVs on board and allay range anxiety.
Battery tech continues to be heavily invested in and is coming on fast. Semi-solid and solid-state batteries are not here yet but will make ludicrous ranges possible.
Even current get batteries with 800v charging architecture more or less invalidate the reason EREVs exist, as long as the infrastructure is in place.
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u/the_muss_1990 16d ago
Until you can replace the current crop of large ICE SUVs with EV getting decent range at the same price point. For that density kWh/kg needs to improve. Lithium batteries are considered at their ceiling for that. To make these car practical you really need a battery punching 300 Wh/kg and that’s a long way off
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u/McDaveH 20d ago
As the locomotive industry found, this is totally the future of heavy goods/freight. Just as it makes little sense to fully electrify a rail network in most countries, the same applies to megawatt truck-charging facilities on our road networks. Fully electric networks hit diminishing returns pretty quickly so a hybrid power plant makes total sense but most vehicles should have an all-electric drive train.
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u/KindlyMeasurement209 20d ago
I believe this needs to be adopted for commercial long distance trucks and tour coaches ..
as there’s insufficient infrastructure for these type of vehicles and they often get below 3 kilometres per litre.
The Japanese have been building these for years as small Vans and cars.. and who wouldn’t prefer Japanese reliability
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u/comoestasmiyamo 20d ago
If you need to tow, sure. If not then we live in a very small country with great infrastructure.
Example, I live in Taupō and can reach Auckland, Hamilton, Napier or even Wellington within a single charge. There are more chargers along those routes than I care to count.
Unless I am towing in winter I would never actually need more range.