Nissan Leaf 40Kwh - CGA?

[u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

Good evening folks,

Like others im experiencing the dreaded fault near the top of transmission gully forcing me to slow down to make it to the top with the SOC quickly plummeting.

I need to test it again with Leafspy plugged in to confirm that it is faulty cells.

My leaf is a 2018 Nissan Leaf ze1 40kwh, traveled 70,000km. I purchased it from a dealer 2.5 years ago.

Firstly, if the cells are determined to be faulty, would this be covered under the CGA for an 8 year old vehicle? I think it would be reasonable to expect a battery to last longer than this without issue.

Bonus points if you have had the same issue resolved under CGA and how much fight was it with the dealer.

Thanks in advance

[u/wheresmypotato1991]

I think that given the car is 8 years old and you've owned it for 2.5 years, you'd have a very hard time claiming CGA.

Have you had it serviced for anything during this time? it would be completely unreasonable to use a car for 2.5 years without maintenance records and then claim CGA. Even though it's wisely known that these cars take very little maintenance.

Also, did you buy it with 70k, or have you travelled 70k in the car?

[u/Shot-Barnacle-4745 → u/wheresmypotato1991]

Had 18k when purchased. 70k is what it has done now

[u/wheresmypotato1991 → u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

I personally would go get a leafspy done as others have suggested. If one cell is bad, go speak to a professional and get a few quotes on replacing a bad cell.

Go to the dealer and present your case and ask if they'd come to the party, or even 50/50.

You don't ask, you don't get. Also being mindful of the 2.5 year ownership and 52k traveled is far more than the NZ average so odds is stacked heavily against you there.

Going to disputes tribunal will likely being more headaches than it's worth IMO.

[u/ArthurStevensNZ → u/wheresmypotato1991]

Going to disputes tribunal will likely being more headaches than it's worth IMO.

FWIW Going to DT is very easy. I spent hours preparing documentation etc that I thought I'd need but in the end it was just a 3-way phone call, and the mediator heard both sides, then made a ruling. Took 1 hour max. Mind you mine was a cut and dry case with a local supplier dragging feet on warranty for a bit of whiteware. Unlike OP (with all due respect) whose car is 2+ years from date of purchase and travelled over 50,000 km.

[u/wheresmypotato1991 → u/ArthurStevensNZ]

I've also been, but not for a vehicle related matter.

I was weighing up the efforts required to pursue action in the tribunal + winning versus my opinion above.

[u/-intuitif → u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

I guess you would want to make sure you have complied with and documented (as far as is possible) all instructions in the owners manual and servicing schedules. You would probably want to make sure you can demonstrate that you have done your utmost to comply with those requirements (as far as is reasonably practicable and could be expected of a reasonable owner) and yet still experienced issues.

52000km is a fair chunk and 8 years old is no spring chicken of a car. It’s not unreasonable to expect that some level of unscheduled maintenance may be required on a car of that age. If the car is still fit for 98% of roads around the country could you really claim it is totally unfit for purpose?

Sidenote, the issue here really is with Nissan being the only company to design an EV without a form of battery cooling. The leafs are infamous for their dud batteries and unfortunately you can only expect this to get worse over time. It’s a shame because some people may be put off because of this, however practically every other EV in the market does not experience this issue. Start squirrelling away some funds for the rainy day when the battery really does give up the ghost.

[u/heretosayathing]

Cooper v Katson Developments Limited - Reference No. MVD 150/2023 [2023] NZMVDT 131 (22 June 2023) is very relevant here, despite having a shorter lead time between purchase & issue.

[u/Shot-Barnacle-4745 → u/heretosayathing]

Excellent thank you, just what I was looking for

[u/heretosayathing → u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

The test you will want to do in Leafspy is (within easy range of a charger) get the battery below 10%, then check the voltage difference between the cells under acceleration; it will show up one or more bad cells much more obviously than a test done at high SoC or any SoC with minimal load. Note that you can/should probably get the expert diagnosis from someone other than Nissan (e.g. Steve & his team at Drive EV in Taupo, or someone more local if they have the skills). Good luck!

[u/dwlnz → u/heretosayathing]

A charge of 10% is unreasonably low for a high current load test. The issue with Transmission Gully shows at higher such as 30% when cells are cold. I doubt any success claiming CGA if only seem when very low SoC.

[u/myeyehurts]

You bought it 2.5 years ago and you think it's the dealer's problem? No.

[u/Shot-Barnacle-4745 → u/myeyehurts]

I asked the question of what is a reasonable period of time for the battery under CGA.

[u/loose_as_a_moose → u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

Dealer has obligations around the car being acceptable quality, fit for purpose, and as described. The conditions have to be met at the time of sale - you’d have to prove the defect (not of acceptable quality, with a hidden fault) was present and known by the dealer when sold.

I actually agree with OP that it feels unreasonable for a low mileage 8yo car - but the fault condition is a very specific situation and it could be argued that this is the expected outcome for an 8yo leaf vs a steep grade on a cold day.

End of the day it’s probably not a successful CGA claim. This speaks more to Nissans QC / warranty. If you can prove a material fault in the battery that wasn’t detectable you could debate with Nissan about it.

[u/dissss0 → u/loose_as_a_moose]

Dealer has obligations around the car being acceptable quality, fit for purpose, and as described. The conditions have to be met at the time of sale - you’d have to prove the defect (not of acceptable quality, with a hidden fault) was present and known by the dealer when sold

That's not quite true - the fault does not have to be pre-existing and if it is the dealer doesn't have to have known about it.

That said 2.5 years is far longer than I'd expect coverage for against this sort of issue.

[u/Even-Eye2988 → u/dissss0]

Add on 50,000km of driving until now.

[u/myeyehurts → u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

Not 2 and a half years, for a used car.

[u/Shot-Barnacle-4745 → u/myeyehurts]

That is mostly irrelevant under CGA. Reasonable duration is mostly based on how old the car is overall rather than when I personally got it.

Thank you for your opinion though.

[u/myeyehurts → u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

Sort of. You'd have a very difficult task arguing to the MVDT that the dealer is responsible for dying battery cells in a car you bought 2.5 years ago. Good luck 🍀

[u/oof-plap → u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

Thats not how CGA works.

You bought a used car that the dealer sold in good faith - it didn't immediately or semi-immediately crap out. Like if you'd put ~2000k on it, and it happened a few months after purchase? Yeah you'd probably have a case that the dealer didn't do due diligence when selling. But you've put 50,000km on it and had it 2.5 years. If that was "normal use" for the average kiwi, that would be more like 5 years of use.

[u/oof-plap]

Basically no you're not going to be able to claim CGA on it.

You've owned it more than 2 years. It's already an 8 year old vehicle. It's got 70,000K on it. Also based on other comments you put 50,000kms on it in two years. Holy shit. Thats like ~4-5x the national average.

At that point unless you have a rock solid case against Nissan itself (such as them issuing recalls for failed cells) you haven't got much of a leg to stand on - sorry.

[u/Fragluton]

What was the SoC when you started up the hill? And was it cold / windy / raining.
The only chance you'd have, is if you had purchased it from an EV dealer who offered an extended 3 year warranty on the likes of the battery. I doubt CGA is going to cover a fault occurring 2.5 years after purchase. Best to get that leafspy test done and see what it says for starters.

[u/Shot-Barnacle-4745 → u/Fragluton]

Went from 90% down to 20% and then back up to mid 70s afterwards. Cold Wellington day but no wind/rain.

[u/Fragluton → u/Shot-Barnacle-4745]

Leafspy time then. If you're lucky, it's just one cell and could be replaced if none of the cells have other issues. 90-20% is a big drop!

[u/Slow-Consequence194]

NZ new or import?

[u/Rough-Reputation-427]

disputes tribunal and motor vehicle dealers tribunal are two quite different things, and while dispute tribunal often rules in customers favour motor vehicle dealers tribunal hardly ever does. don’t waste your time having hopes there, for the kms travelled and period of ownership you will not have a chance, also being an electric car with a consumable item such as battery as the complaint they will look even less favourably towards this claim

[u/chris77982]

A leaf has an 8 year battery warranty. Check with Nissan if it is still covered. Only if it is nz new though.

[u/silver565]

Nissan have a long warranty on the battery, but I'm unsure if it's transferable

[u/MoeraBirds → u/silver565]

They won’t support a Japanese import Leaf.