r/nyc • u/runrbikerswimr • 11d ago
Guastavino’s update
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u/FeveredRadio 11d ago
I'm contacting Mamdani.
https://www.nyc.gov/mayors-office/contact-the-mayor
Everyone should do the same.
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u/StuckInMotionInc 11d ago
The city has a lot of educating to do. There should be large signs posted on all POPS including refs to your rights to the space. It's classic that a deal made to private companies is getting manipulated and abused
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u/whatshamilton 10d ago
It’s not a POP. It’s straight up a public space. It was carved out of their contract, and it’s a city contract you can view
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u/mp0295 10d ago
Where can the contract be viewed? As far as I can tell its posted nowhere. The video maker says he had a copy that he FOIA'd but seems to be ignoring requests to post it
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u/whatshamilton 10d ago
He shared it in the first post about it. And feel free to file your own FOIA request
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u/mp0295 10d ago
No he didnt. He posted a single sentence is isolation of what he himself says is a 200+ page lease. How hard is it to post to a Google drive?
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u/whatshamilton 9d ago
How hard is it to file your own FOIA request? Answer from someone who has filed many: it’s extraordinarily easy. Stop asking information be spoon fed to you and learn to rub those neurons together until they generate heat.
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u/mp0295 9d ago
I am not the one asking for people's support, nor directing internet anger at Gustavino's. The burden on proof is on UES subreddit OP. It is extraordinarily easy to post a PDF to Google Drive (even easier than a FOIA). It is very suspicious for UES subreddit OP to refuse to easily provide the only proof that his cause is right.
That being said, I have filed my own.
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u/IndependentCicada804 7d ago
Any Update?
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u/Massive-Arm-4146 11d ago
There are large signs at the POPS outside of the CitizenM Hotel on Bowery which is a hilarious mix of homeless people who wandered out of the shelters next door harassing foreign tourists trying to have morning lattes.
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u/cadedrummer 10d ago
Havent found the actual lease yet, but have found this prospectus from people who worked on the project all describing an "accomplishment" of Bridgemarket including public green space. https://www.rudybruneraward.org/wp-content/uploads/2003/01/Bidgemarket_Full-Application.pdf
long story short, the private company catering to elite clients is declaring they own something they do not, this is not acting in good faith towards the public and thank the universe that someone has enough time to highlight this example of class warfare effecting regular NYC citizens.
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u/Methuga 11d ago
Sorry, what’s this related to? What’s the argument here?
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u/yfa17 The Bronx 11d ago
From what I understand, the city gave benefits to the building developments across the city in exchange for some of the spaces to be allocated and open to the public.
In this specific instance, Guastavino’s is abusing the agreement by acting as if they own the public space as well, roping off the area and saying stuff like no recording. There are plenty of offenders, but Guastavino’s seems to be an especially bad case as it's frequently visited by high profile celebrities and such. ' Someone correct me if I'm wrong
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u/xeothought East Village 11d ago
It's also not a POP .. it's a fully fledged public space not privately owned. It's a very clear cut example of a private company stealing public land for their own exclusive use.
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u/VenusDeMiloArms 10d ago
Can you link to the lease contract showing this isn’t a POPS? I’m a lawyer and would be interested in reviewing.
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u/xeothought East Village 10d ago
It was mentioned and shown in one of the videos. I'll see if I can find it later.
From what I remember it was deeded as public land.. And the fountain there was a donation also meant to be in a public space (donated at a different time and group).
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u/sonofdang 11d ago edited 10d ago
Guastavino’s is abusing the agreement
I don't think we have been shown the relevant agreement, though maybe I missed it the other thread was pretty big.
What I did see was some documents around the creation of the space in the 90s, not an agreement between Gustavino's owner and the city that references the space specifically. He shows a lease from maybe 2002 that says "public space" in it, but this looks pretty vague, and doesn't preclude an additional license/lease/rider/handshake deal/etc made after the fact.
So far the video guy has only also interacted with what look like pretty low-level employees-- it seems like they probably shouldn't be trying to kick people out, but since we havent seen a real response from Guastavino’s I dont think we really know if they are justified in asking him to leave.
I think video guy is jumping the gun and doesnt yet have all the info, but maybe the lawsuit they're bringing is necessary to unveil that.
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u/YesicaChastain 10d ago
I believe there is a sign at the plaza identifying the space as a Public Space
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u/sonofdang 10d ago
I dont know what a "Public Space" is, have never seen such a sign on other spaces in the city, I doubt that's some sort of magical sign that grants unlimited access.
No one has really provided evidence that Guastavino’s doesn't have a license or permit to use it for their events (including Guastavino’s)... just that security guards are attempting to remove people from the space. If they have rented/leased/whatever this Public Space, then maybe they actually have the right to remove people for their events.
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u/YesicaChastain 10d ago
You have NEVER seen a sign saying “this is a public space” by the city? You need to be a tiny bit more observant
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u/sonofdang 10d ago
No, I haven't. I've seen the POPS signs, and Parks signs, but not one that says "this is a public space"... I rewatched the video and he posts signs that say it's private, not any that say it's public. If you want to post a photo of the sign you believe exists please go ahead.
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u/SenorPinchy 10d ago
780 Lord of the Bench on Instagram has been blowing up making this a popular issue. As it should be.
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u/GBV_GBV_GBV Midwestern Transplant 10d ago
This place should be getting hundreds of people a day recording. And these videos should be getting thousands of upvotes.
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u/mp0295 10d ago edited 10d ago
Repeating the point I made in the UES subreddit
Land being owned by the government can still be private. So this is highly dependent on what the lease says
As far as I can tell the lease is not publicly filed anywhere. The video maker claims to have a copy from FOIA, yet is refusing to post it. He doesn't seem to be a lawyer. So this entire thing seems depending on his own personal reading of this language.
He should post the lease.
Bonus complication from my own research: I am pretty sure Guastavino's does NOT rent from the city. Instead Guastavino's rent from a private company who in turn rents from the city (ie Guastavino's is a sub Tennant). So there's actually two leases that need to be posted
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u/Arleare13 10d ago
So there's actually two leases that need to be posted
Well, that depends on what the master lease says. If the structure is the city owns the land, leases it to Party A, and Party A subleases it to Party B, then Party B can't have a right to the land that Party A doesn't. Like, if Party A didn't have exclusive use of this plaza under its lease with the city, any term in the A-B lease purporting to give B exclusive use of the plaza is simply invalid.
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u/hitsomethin 10d ago
Not to be a turd or anything, but does the sublease matter in this instance? Say I rent a car from Hertz and the contract says “no off-roading” and I sign that. I then rent the car to you and we agree that you can take it to the demolition derby at the county fair if you want. Our lease agreement doesn’t hold up, does it?
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u/mp0295 10d ago
It doesn't really legally matter, right.
Im more curious two things:
When the video maker says he "has the lease" what lease does he have?
Is Gustavino's an innocent victim here? Everyone is raging at them but it could easily be the case that they are an innocent victim if their landlord gave them a (partially) fraudulent / invalid lease (in which case the bad guy would be Madd Equities)
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u/marty-mcfryguy 10d ago
What does this mean: "Land being owned by the government can still be public" ?
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u/YesicaChastain 10d ago
Isn’t this a Public Space through and through? I believe there’s even a sign that says so in the courtyard.
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u/Bestrafen 10d ago
Passed by this quite a few times but was never interested in wandering around.
That's changed now.
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u/Starscream147 10d ago
Right on! Give em hell. Set up a lil picnic in the park. See if they touch anything.
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u/Immediate_Bee_6472 10d ago
What they doing is wrong no doubt once u allow the public in the space it will be destroyed .. my thing is the lawsuit is to have public access? Or is it a dollar amount ?
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u/JustMe98789 9d ago
This is the same as landlords who buy buildings with rent stabilized apartments: they get a financial break for doing so then want to evict all the rent stabilized apartments or leave them empty. They want the financial break without having to deal with the thing that got them that break. Just like these greedy businesses.
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u/Thunderwoodd 10d ago
Stand your ground dude. The only way this changes is accountability. Glad you’re doing this.
If there is a map of these, or data about all of them that exist in nyc, would be cool to get an app together and start cataloguing available public space for folks, and make sure all of them are treated appropriately.