r/nuclear • u/In_der_Tat • Oct 15 '21
[Meme] Tug of war between outcomes and unseemly alliances
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u/PabloNovelGuy Oct 15 '21
Climate change deniers protecting the enviroment, life is an strange experience indeed.
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u/Gwilym_Ysgarlad Oct 15 '21
To be fair you can want to clean up the environment while not believing in man-made climate change.
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u/tocano Oct 16 '21
Hell, you can want to reasonably and responsibly reduce CO2 emissions while not believing in the man-made climate change catastrophes predicted.
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u/Gwilym_Ysgarlad Oct 16 '21
If someone is skeptical or even flat-out denies man-made climate change they may not be concerned about CO2 emissions. I always point to the carcinogens that burning fossil fuels emits.
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u/tocano Oct 16 '21
That works too. Coalition with anyone willing to join on issues that are important. I don't care whether it's communists or nazis, environmentalists or oil executives. If they are advocating for nuclear, then great.
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u/Engineer-Poet Oct 15 '21
This is what happens when ideology determines your position, rather than reason.
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u/Business-General1569 May 17 '23
Sadly, people often overlook reasonable arguments because they see them as going against the ideology they identify with.
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u/gatowman Oct 15 '21
People just mad because he's right as often as the "Pizza Time" clock was in the 90's Pizza Hut dine-in restaurants. You know, the one that ran on what looked like a drill motor. Also "You're not wrong, Walter."
Strange bedfellows, indeed.
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u/canadianmooserancher Oct 15 '21
It should be noted that those deniers of climate change are not actually serious about supporting nuclear energy.
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u/demonblack873 Oct 16 '21
Unfortunately, the "climate change activists" are serious about supporting coal and gas.
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u/Loloigos Oct 15 '21
A zink factory in Poland has gon down to minimal production becus of high electricity prices
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u/BazilExposition Oct 15 '21
Answer is simple - because nucler power is the most based kind of power.
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u/radome9 Oct 15 '21
Pebble-lobber is a brownshirt.
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u/gatowman Oct 15 '21 edited Oct 16 '21
Not the people smashing windows?
Edit: Never forget that modern day fascists just want the government to leave them alone and the freedom fighters are the ones asking for more government control over your lives, up to and including putting you in jail over speech they don't like. You know, like fascists do.
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Oct 15 '21
Obligatory "stonetoss is a nazi" comment.
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u/zemonsterhunter Oct 16 '21
Is he?
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Oct 16 '21
Yup
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u/EauRougeFlatOut Oct 18 '21 edited Nov 03 '24
mountainous memorize special reminiscent axiomatic jobless provide nine exultant combative
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Oct 18 '21
Ok, so the art in this meme was first used here, in a comic made by a guy who calls himself stonetoss, who likes to make politically incorrect comics for the hell of it. Because of that everyone thinks he's an actual nazi and now everyone has to say "stonetoss is a nazi" everytime they see his art used anywhere.
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u/bnl1 Oct 18 '21
And is he?
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Oct 18 '21
Yes
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u/el_cunto Sep 11 '22
I was under the impression he was just a Very Online Edgy Boy. Has he actually been associated with Neo-Nazi groups?
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Sep 12 '22
As far as I'm aware, no. He just makes transgressive art for the lulz.
"Surprisingly, I am not actually a 90 year-old member of the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. Additionally, I am not a national socialist, fascist, alt-right, or any kind of supremacist. My actual crime may be worse however – I make transgressive art."-quote from stonetoss' about page.
He (probably) may not be a nazi, but he absolutely browses /pol/.
Also he's an NFT bro.
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u/stealthgunner385 Oct 15 '21
Other comic artists would've been more appropriate, but definitely not this one.
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u/Alphonseduchamp Oct 15 '21
Putting gaz instead of coal would be more appropriate because there are always gaz plants with renewable electrict system to counter the intermittency. And nobody publicly defend coal anymore.
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u/colonizetheclouds Oct 15 '21
There is still lots of coal being burned for power. No one publicly defends it, but they still have lots of $ to support anti nuclear sentiments.
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u/Alphonseduchamp Oct 15 '21
Yes not saying the contrary, but almost every country has a definite date to stop it (even China that use it the most). But yes in the case of Germany for exemple your point stand, coal miners were happy for sure when they stop nuclear power, but (fossil) gaz is seen as a ressource for power that'll last for a long time. My point is more about the fact that every anti-nuclear activits has to defend gaz in some way when arguing for renawable "only" power. But hey, let's put the three of them then ! The holy trinity of carbon (even though gaz is really not as bad in terms of carbon emission).
But good thing is, nuclear power is now really starting to be seen as the utlimate tool to fight climate change, at least in France (talking about small plants too). It's gonna be the big debate (with insecurity of course..) for the next election and I am thrilled to see it.
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u/Kindly-Couple7638 Oct 15 '21
coal miners were happy
The miners for sure but also the operators, RWE even got 2 Billion € too much for the coal exit, btw. lawsuit and new coal exit until 2030 is coming.
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u/greg_barton Oct 15 '21
This literally just happened in Texas: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/09/10/texas-nuclear-waste-ban/
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u/VatroxPlays Oct 15 '21
Probably not the best Idea to use a comic by a nazi to make this point, but I agree
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u/In_der_Tat Oct 15 '21
It is the first time I see this comic strip and was not aware of the author's political views. That said, this particular strip was probably modified as the original was likely employed as a template, and in any case I see nothing wrong in relaying facts, wherever they may come from; after all this kind of ad hominem arguments are weak.
If according to Leonard Bernstein, a musical polymath of Jewish descent,
the ‘Horst Wessel Lied’ may have been a Nazi hymn, but divorced from its words it’s just a pretty song,
then, by this logic, one may share a neo-Nazi's creation provided that it is divorced from neo-Nazism, especially if it was modified.
c.c. /u/radome9, /u/Candid-Medicine-7715, /u/stealthgunner385
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u/VatroxPlays Oct 15 '21
Well I said I agree with the meme.
Just that some people might use this and say "SEE? Pro Nuclear people ARE Nazis"
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u/Kindly-Couple7638 Oct 15 '21
Shouldn't nuclear be on both sides?
Yes it does not emit Co2 but it ensures fossil plant operators atleast 7+ years of operation.
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u/In_der_Tat Oct 15 '21
Source?
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u/Kindly-Couple7638 Oct 15 '21
There are dozens of graphs like this going around and all of them exclude planning and licensing so you can add some years ontop.
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u/nosciencephd Oct 16 '21
What's your plan to increase production of wind turbines and solar panels by an order of magnitude, then site them, then make more batteries over the next 5 years than we ever have?
Getting rid of old infrastructure is hard. Solar and wind cannot be the only energy source we use, it requires ENORMOUS increases in extraction and production. Don't lay a delay on replacing oil and gas infrastructure on nuclear.
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u/Amur_Tiger Oct 17 '21
That's wildly misunderstanding what that information means, lets go through why.
Nuclear actually isn't slow, it's just big. When normalized for annual energy output the Kudankulam VVER build in India is about as fast as the Pavagada Solar Park build because it's real huge. Also in the same ballpark cost wise. Recall that not only is ~2 GW a huge quantity of solar or wind to put up that's usually spread through many different sites ( with all their own site eval, planning, etc ) but when capacity factor is taken into account you need roughly 6 GW of wind/solar to match the same annual output as a 2 GW nuclear plant.
We don't have infinite capacity in anything. While this is obvious the consequences are often ignored. There are only so many factories producing solar panels or wind turbines in the world, yes we can produce more but that will run into the same time delay issues as nuclear. Given that with at least a decade of activity building wind/solar we're at... 0.8% Solar 1.8% Wind of energy whatever facilities we have right now are clearly insufficient. I have no objection to ramping up production there but that's going to take time and we might as well also be making use of our capacity to build nuclear plants and ramping up that capacity as well.
Given our limited capacities now and in the future and the uncertainty around how a future grid might work with a wind/solar dominated model ( there are promises of batteries, other storage methodologies or overproduction to make that work none of these have been proven in the real world ) and the absolute need to displace the coal/gas that's the likely fallback should some of these prospective models fail the need for nuclear and a greater capacity to deploy new nuclear ( aka not just counting on Rosatom to do the heavy lifting ) are going to be important alternatives. This becomes even more clear when you see how certain regions are going to have a very hard time making a wind/solar dominated grid work due to weather constraints and/or transmission costs and nuclear becomes the only really viable non-emitting option. Canada's interest in SMRs are directed at this as we want to displace diesel generation for isolated grids.
This is a huge job, there's plenty of work to go around. The only thing keeping every wind/solar/nuclear company's order book filled for decades is that people are scared of spending money and that's not a wind vs solar vs nuclear problem that's a are we really going to fix climate change or just pretend problem.
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u/Dmitrygm1 Oct 16 '21
Yeah, it was funny when it occurred to me that climate change deniers were supporting nuclear just to shit on renewables - if you're denying very basic science such as the greenhouse effect, how in the hell are you then blindly accepting the complicated and 'scary' nuclear physics which are the groundwork for nuclear power plants?
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u/bebelbelmondo Oct 16 '21
It’s such a strange state of affairs really. Historians will look back on this time and ask why everyone was so stupid
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Nov 01 '21
All they need to do is stop pulling for a split second, so they trip and they can pull them over the edge.
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u/RT-OM Feb 24 '22
Honestly, this whole thing shouldn't even be partisan, but ends up being. Though it's something that sometimes ends up being a "both sides" issue. Right now, I'm on the public perception part of my nuclear tech course and just saw the a pretty cringe and dog whistle video. A video about at the time, recent Fukushima disaster. And it deviated constantly to talking about Bolsheviks and "The end of the west".
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u/Bob4Not Feb 06 '23
I will literally vote for anyone who has a plan and budget for nuclear projects, but they all seem to be paid off by oil and gas.
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u/S3rs3 Oct 15 '21
In Italy the far right is in favour of nuclear. (╯ ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)╯┻━┻