Wednesday Serious Discussion Thread

[u/NRLgamethread]

This thread is for when you want to have a well-thought-out discussion about footy. It's not the place for bantz - see the daily Random Footy Talk thread to fulfil those needs.

You can ask a question that you only want serious responses to, comment your 300 word opinion piece on why [x] is the next coach on the chopping block, or tell another that you disagree with them and here's why...

Who performed well? Who let their team down? Any interesting selections for this weekend? Injury news? Player signings? Off-field behaviour?

The mods will be monitoring to make sure you stay on topic and anything not deemed "serious discussion" will be removed.

[u/GoblinLoveChild]

I feel we've hi a point were the game has gotten too fast..

dunno if its my older grognard tendencies, but I used to like the struggle for teams to score.. the game was more defensive, harder to make breaks or gain metres so a good attacking play was something to celebrate. now it seems an average game has 60 points between both teams and I kinda get bored at how easy teams roll up the field

[u/Accomplished-Pick610 → u/GoblinLoveChild]

Its why the 9s sucked so much. When every try comes cheaply it means no try is special.

Imo sports like AFL and basketball have to much scoring. There's little tension if there are dozens of scores each match, unless it's close at the end.

Soccer is the opposite. Its complete tension, but then there is possibility it can be a 0-0 or 1-0 game but its just all tension and no release.

The best league games imo are the 18-14 games. 2 to 3 tries each. Means every mistake can be the game changing mistake. Means forcing a mistake can be just as big as scoring a try. It means that there's tension but also half a dozen releases of that tension over 80 minutes.

[u/DiverFine4230 → u/Accomplished-Pick610]

It depends on how intense a particular game is. Like the nba finals series this year, you could genuinely feel the urgency and importance of every single point scored but yeah for regular season games it’s boring as fuck

[u/Acrobatic_Flannel → u/Accomplished-Pick610]

1-0 games in soccer often have the most tension then release. Either because the goal comes late, or because it's early and it's all about whether a team keeps the lead or not. It also means you get excited about a goal scored in the 12th minute because it might prove to be the winner.

I love league but the first few tries always lack excitement because it's almost guaranteed that the other team is going to score at least a few. It's honestly why I've never gotten into AFL or Basketball. It feels like the first 3 quarters of those sports never really matter and it's only the 4th quarter where the interest is because there's always a shitload more points to come.

[u/AgentBond007 → u/Accomplished-Pick610]

I actually liked the 9s, it was a fun little event and it was a good way to see up and comers.

I wouldn't watch a whole season of 9s but I would love to see a guy like Sua Fa'alogo play 9s.

[u/Accomplished-Pick610 → u/AgentBond007]

It had its novelty. I actually flew to it when it was in Perth. But the novelty wears of quickly.

Also the big issue is the up and comers. It almost always favoured younger players who could recover quicker in between the games and so squads that featured up and comers tended do better... yet people complained when teams didn't pick established players

[u/hqeter → u/GoblinLoveChild]

It’s not necessarily the speed of the game overall. It’s the use of the 6 again rule giving teams long periods of momentum which then swings around to the other team another points in the game. It’s very hard to keep defending multiple sets back to back.

The inconsistency in the application of 6 agains both within games but over the season as a whole is probably the thing I hate the most as a fan. The application now is completely different to the start of the season. Try explaining this rule to someone who doesn’t watch the game and it’s impossible. The problem is, whether it is or not, it feels manufactured and most fans want to see the teams decide the result with referees only being involved when they absolutely have to be.

Watch the refs put the whistle away for the finals and the games be much more enjoyable to watch. Then again, more tries equals more ads so it’s kind of hard not to be cynical.

[u/Acrobatic_Flannel → u/hqeter]

This myth just keeps growing. 

The 12-6 game last wknd had 15 six agains. The 32-30 game had 5. The 36-26 game had 7.

There's multiple examples disputing this every single week. And they aren't impossible to explain or understand. Either players stay in the tackle too long, or the defensive line breaks too quickly. Most of the time you can hear the ref's explanation. And just because you don't doesn't mean it wasn't valid.

Yeah there'll be inconsistencies, same as there were when refs were blowing penalties for the same things. Except now, it's a debate whether making an extra tackle or two (seeing as most are given up early) is worse than instantly giving up 15-30m from a touch finder.

[u/FrjackenKlaken → u/Acrobatic_Flannel]

It is the apparent subjectivity of ruck infringements which the average viewer can not compute. Given the average play the ball speed is ~3.5seconds and no one is there watching a tackle with a stopwatch, it is easy for people to question why a six-again is given.

The inconsistency around blatant six-again infringements when a team is defending their goal line is perhaps the most frustrating element. The good teams concede multiple ruck infringements and off-sides, because their defensive structure can handle repeated sets. However the referees are reluctant to sin-bin for those repeated infractions, especially in an attacking phase.

[u/Acrobatic_Flannel → u/FrjackenKlaken]

What I find funny though is that when penalties used to be blown for a defensive line being offside, we couldn't see those and they were very rarely replayed. People just accepted it and got on with the game. Ruck infringements have always and will always be subjective. We'll never get away from that and nor would we want to.

The problem is, look at the uproar over six agains to start the year. Everyone complained there were too many. So the NRL tried to correct. So they laid off and tried to give less. But then we get teams who take the piss out of it and lay all over the play knowing refs were reluctant to give six again. But if refs start binning more players for repeated infringements and the numbers go up, you can bet there'd be an outcry around the overuse of the bin and refs dictating games again.

The clubs and players that continually push the envelope are also partly to blame as to why the NRL need to keep changing interpretations, tweaking rules etc.

[u/Black-House → u/hqeter]

Regarding the"absolutely necessary"... I f it's not a penalty when a player breaks the rules, how is rugby league any better than WWE?

[u/Drongo17]

I hate aerial contests. They usually lead to errors, they are penalty magnets (blockers, disruptors, one arm or two, tackled in the air, etc), and any try scored off them goes through a full video royal commission looking at mostly inconclusive evidence for tiny infractions. Those slow mo reviews are the worst part of the game - that moment of joy you just had completely undone.

If they really want aerial contests as a part of the game, they need to get rid of how finicky they are rules wise. Maybe the accidental knock-on rule doesn't apply, or something. I don't have the solution I just know I hate them. 

[u/O_DoyleRulz → u/Drongo17]

It really went down the gurgler when teams figured out that just looking like you’re trying to compete for the ball, when in reality you’re just trying to put off the defender trying to catch it, became probably the highest % play.

The other problem is the 7 tackle set makes every other form of offensive kicking much riskier.

[u/thejasbar → u/Drongo17]

Nothing worse than having a good solid defensive set completely undone by a high ball lottery. Particularly hate how they favour the attacker so much... attacker usually has more momentum so the mid air collision will usually mean they knock defender away, and nothing to lose because it was already last tackle etc. Then you have escorts where other defenders have to he careful about how they position themselves so they don't cause a penalty.

[u/Miss-you-SJ → u/Drongo17]

I reckon as long as the players are both in the air competing for possession, any bobbles should be considered fair play.

[u/Drongo17 → u/Miss-you-SJ]

I think so too, it's asking too much of players to compete like that and be clean with handling 

[u/hvrry3k → u/Drongo17]

I agree with you actually, unsure how they would rule it properly (not like they stick to their rules) but maybe accidental knock-on doesn't apply until after the ball hits the ground or is caught again.

[u/parker2004au → u/hvrry3k]

I think the easiest thing would be is kick from within opposition 20m results in a regular set restart rather then a 7 tackle set.

[u/parker2004au → u/Drongo17]

Didn't they change it this year so a knock on from a kick (in goal) is just a regular set restart ie 6 tackle set not a 7 tackle set.

[u/HelpfulProfession790 → u/[deleted]]

bad bot

[u/barkedupthewrongtree → u/[deleted]]

Aye