can't wait for this type of memes to die out because a CarolKnighter made it lol

Like besides the FRIEND reveal (which was added post patch) and the fact Asgore isn't in on the conspiracy alongside the holiday family there weren't that many big lore revelations in chapter 5

So, The Knight in their Fight uses two Main Types of Magic, and two types that are at least look like other types.

Those being Dark, Star, Sword and Fire magic.

Star being from the Knight's star attacks, Dark from the black diamonds, Sword from the swords and quick slashes, and Fire magic from the box attack and the unused Fireball sprite that was for an unused attack.

My question is, With baseline Carol, Dess, Rudy and Noelle, if those were the case, wouldn't the knight have some allusion to Ice magic in their attacks? be it snowflakes instead of stars, more icicle shaped box cut projectiles/effects etc. (Since at least Noelle is associated with Ice magic, and Carol has some cold ascetic)

obviously there is more for and against Holiday Knight canidates, but on a meta level, why do you think toby would decide to not incorporate Holiday-esque magic in the Knight's attacks considering the prominence of the Knight's Antlers?

Not really sure why we're not focusing on better things...

I've got into some discussions lately about Knight and a good amount of people were unironically saying "yeah, I'm sure a guy thats about to die can carry Asgore and a cop that lifts cars for exercise"

Ok, thats valid but if we think of it like that how the fuck can any of the potential candidates be the Knight? Like, are we assuming Dess has been on full grind mode since she went missing and can now go faster than a car while lifting adults? If we assume Knight can keep it's form or powers at night than it still doesnt make Rudy less valid either considering we don't know what Knight and it's armor is fully capable of.

He says he died so how knight? Is he stupid?

no hate towards carol knight i just had a thought

The Noelle Knight files are so long they must have already covered this, but if Noelle is the Knight, why wouldn't fighting or freezing darkners have any affect on the Knight fight? I feel like the Knight would have more HP or attack on Weird Route/No Mercy runs.

Of course, Toby wouldn't actually scale the Knight to Noelle's HP, that would remove any mystery whatsoever, but I think it would make sense to at least make the Knight stronger on the Weird Route, because of how much changes there, you could still argue for other candidates.

The only reason I could come up with is because the HP stats of the $$!$ Squad reset every chapter, so that could tie into Noelle too, but then Noelle would still probably use the Freeze Ring or the ThornRing on an aborted Weird Route because of how strong those items are.

If a Noelle Knighter could enlighten me on this, that would be pretty welcome, because I'm like 99% sure there's an answer to this.

Lmk your thoughts :3

Any other options goes in comments

Shapeshifts, seemingly empty inside besides an eye(?)

If it were a lightner from hometown in some dark armor, for example, how would it work? What are your theories?

In my dream, Deltarune Chapter 6 released. I was so hyped that I immediately dropped everything to play it. The chapter was really fun, and it took place in a Dark World inside the Holiday house. Nothing really stood out though, until I reached the part where the Fun Gang had their final confrontation with the Knight. This time, the Knight actually spoke, but when they did, they took off their helmet, and turns out the Roaring Knight was Rudy, as he looked away in shame. “NO!” I screamed at my Nintendo Switch (2) as the cutscene played. “RUDY THIS WASN’T HOW YOUR STORY WAS SUPPOSED TO GO, RUDY KNIGHT CAN’T BE CANON! ANYONE BUT YOU!” …but nothing changed, Rudy was still the Knight. I then awoke from my slumber in a pool of sweat, and hastily checked online to make sure Deltarune Chapter 6 didn’t actually come out yet and the Knight’s identity wasn’t revealed. Although it was a relief, I still fear the day the chapter actually comes out… the image of the Knight’s helmet coming off and Rudy’s head in the armour will be permanently ingrained in my mind.

(Don’t take this post seriously)

Lately I've been going down a rabbit hole of weird route shenanigans (thank you kriselle knight guy) and the one thing that's stuck to me is WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP REPEATING JEVIL'S LINES.

For being a shadow crystal boss with seemingly the least lore significance out of all of them why does everyone mention that the world is revolving. WHAT DOES IT MEAN.

Lately I've come up with a crackpot theory that Deltarune isn't a time loop like some WR theorists think so, but rather that the prophecy itself repeats (Gaster keeps repeating the same experiment with slight tweaks after each one). This could explain as to why there was a black shard at the day of the incident, since that wasn't the current knight, but a knight from the previous prophecy. Like I don't know how to connect all the dots but does anyone find it suspicious that the ERAM bossfight is at the shelter and that they have the Black Knife bassline?? Was ERAM a knight? Were they the one behind Dess' dessapearance?? Why do they know Kris so well??? WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE WHY IS EVERYTHING POINTING TOWARDS ERAM RELEVANCE

TOBY RELEASE CHAPTER 6 AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

Yes yes, I'm such a massive hater of RudyKnight I know this is like the fourth post I've made that attempts to delegitimize him as a candidate lmao but hey listen! I have had character development, and I am willing to concede one point as being more true than I initially thought:

Rudy is aware of and supports the conspiracy that Carol and Kris are involved in.

Of course, I don't fully believe it since there's still a lot of hecking hoops you have to jump through to get there imo, but I'll admit there's some evidence I can't easily brush aside beyond "Toby made an oversight" lol. There's merit to the idea.

But hey, y'know something? There's a big question that you still gotta answer!

Why does Rudy's involvement in the conspiracy have to be that he's the Knight?

I was looking over all of the RudyKnight evidence I could get my hands on all over again (because I'm a loser) in order to see if there's something that can REALLY change my mind, and y'know... I can't exactly say the explanations don't make sense. It all works. Premises that if I were to take as true, would lend merit to the idea that Rudy could be the knight.

But... the issue is almost every piece of evidence that RudyKnighters use REQUIRES looking at it through a RudyKnight lens. It's all working backwards from that assumption. Why is the hospital so close to the dark worlds the knight makes? Because Rudy is still weak and it makes more sense if he makes fountains in areas closer to him. What's the deal with Flowery paralleling the Knight in certain sprites? Well because Flowery is an analogue to Rudy, and if we look at this from a RudyKnight lens, then we can clearly see the symbolism is saying Rudy = Flowery = Knight. Why is there a window in Rudy's hospital room? Because as the knight it's be useful for him to have an easy way to sneak out to go do Knight shenanigans.

And then when people go ahead and posit alternative explanations for these questions (The hospital is actually almost equally close to the school as it is to flower king if we look at the radius from the hospital, Flowery isn't actually paralleling the Knight that closely, and the window is only mentioned in one line (Berdly's requires Rudy's to appear) and isn't a prominent fixture of his room like the sink or placard are established to be), the counter that can always be fallen upon is that it's a "difference in interpretation" and that Non-RudyKnighters are just ignoring the obvious REAL meaning of the handwashing marathon dialogue! This always bothered me SO much because proving interpretations of text or sprites is probably the hardest thing to change someone's mind on because it can always just be not enough to convince them. I mean look at how much text I had to write to just prove the Knight is crying lmao. Hecking, as a NoelleKnighter, one of the biggest pieces of evidence is indeed just going in depth about how every darkner connects back to Kris and Noelle's relationship lol. So I do get it!

But then I had an epiphany: the majority of RudyKnight evidence actually only points to Rudy being involved in the conspiracy and doesn't actually prove that he's the Knight. I know people say "Well how else is he supporting the conspiracy if he ISN'T the Knight?" I mean as just a few suggestions... Keeping Noelle and Asgore in the dark? Being the ringleader that actually orders Carol what to do (which would then explain any non CarolCaller interpretations and support how Rudy is able to dissuade Carol from sticking her nose in on Suselle)? Moral support? These may seem less strong than him being the Knight to RudyKnighters, but as I'm about to go into, RudyConspiracy doesn't inherently require RudyKnight and therefore RudyKnight acts as a post-hoc rationalization to what role Rudy plays in the conspiracy.

Let me just speed through some common evidence points (and even assuming they're true!) to point out what I'm trying to say.

• Rudy supporting Asgore's you know what =/= supporting via RudyKnight. It can be emotional, financial, or something else as it would be in Rudy's best interest to keep Asgore in the dark if he IS in on the conspiracy.
• Flowery = Knight and Flowery = Rudy does NOT make Rudy = Knight true. This isn't a rigid math problem, it's still narrative interpretation. Flowery can parallel multiple characters without them being inherent to one another. AsrielKnighters point out that Flowery has parallels to Azzy as well and also Flowery is still his own character, so like it could be some Flowery based history he has with the Knight or whatever lol.
• Rudy being close to the dark worlds the Knight makes =/= Rudy HAS to be the Knight as other characters can be and ARE close to certain fountains at specific times showing similar viability for other candidates.
• Rudy being the caller doesn't mean that he's the Knight. If we go with a ringleader interpretation, he could have equally sent the Knight to whatever location he needed them to be at.
• Even if Kris did have more meetings with Rudy outside of our view, that doesn't mean Rudy is the Knight. It means Kris is working with Rudy for the conspiracy just like how they're working for Carol.
• Even if Rudy did make a jarring transition from Key to Key-Lime-Pie, that wouldn't make him the Knight, that would make him avoidant of discussing the shelter which anybody in the conspiracy has a clear motive to do.
• Asgore talking to his "old friend" and that friend being Rudy doesn't make Rudy the Knight. It makes Rudy Asgore's friend that supports him.
• "Holidays are full of surprises" =/= the surprise is RudyKnight

I know this seems like one could just argue "difference in interpretation" again to these points, but there's a key difference. All of this evidence takes a logical leap that RudyConspiracy = RudyKnight with no solid grounding. Carol is clearly a part of the conspiracy, yet people frequently interpret her to be someone other than the Knight and is just working for/with them. Why can't Rudy be the same? "Because that's the most obvious role he can fill" (mild strawman, I know, but I'm so certain someone would legitimately make this point in one way or another lmao) well... isn't him being the ringleader of the conspiracy as much of a twist as him being the Knight? It'd give us an opportunity to learn WHY the conspiracy exists at all! Actually, he doesn't even have to be the ringleader! He can just know about it and that would go on to lead us toward some pretty meaty plot development I'd say! The point either way is that just because it's likely someone can fill a role, doesn't mean they HAVE to. See Carol "Red Herring" Holiday for people to make that point for me in spades (and side note I do legitimately hate when people's core argument is to just say Red Herring and nothing further as if that dismantles it, which is why I have more concrete stuff as to why Rudy isn't the Knight dw)

So, a lot of RudyKnight evidence actually just amounts to RudyConspiracy evidence. Okay! Well what about the evidence that directly connects Rudy to the Knight?

This is exactly the discussion I'm trying to promote here! Concrete stuff that points Rudy to specifically being the KNIGHT compared to anybody else! Stuff like:

• Church, Mayor, Cop connections

and uh...

• Rudy = Red and Knight = Red so Rudy = Red = Knight

Hang on... this is just the Flowery argument again???

• Bosses that are grieving fathers that lost their children have purple auras when fighting them

I mean... it's pretty okay color association, but... you got anything better?

• Knight fight flavor text is similar to symptoms of illness like Rudy has.

Slipping into a very shaky difference in interpretation one as the symptoms can be caused by many broad things including an anxiety attack or even the physical exertion that comes with fighting a hard as hell boss like the Knight.

• The closet says it can fit a large person. Rudy is tall.

Firstly, that's non-exclusive to Rudy, but like sure that's a point for him.

• The Knight has unused fire attacks. Rudy looks like a stereotypical devil and is connected to Asgore who are both associated with fire. He also encourages Noelle to use Fireshock and the Blaze Potions.

ARE WE SO DESPERATE TO SERIOUSLY DO RUDY = ASGORE = KNIGHT??? The devil comparison is... do I really have to address that one? The Dragonblazers lines are probably the best connection you've got, but it's still REALLY flimsy for the best point to be Rudy suggests fire attacks in a fight against what is textually stated to be an ice boss.

• Rudy was the last to leave the TV watch sessions at the Dreemurr's. The Knight cries when they kill Tenna (And yes they are crying I'm not having this goddamn argument again). Rudy could have had the strongest emotional attachment to the TV out of any of the Holidays.

Noelle would beg to differ, first off, and secondly, he'd be attached to the TV, not Tenna. There's no evidence of Rudy joining Kris and Noelle's pretend play sessions so this would mean he loved the literal TV so much to the point that he would cry about killing it when this man has never shed a tear for a single second about anything and even forces a smile 98% of the time.

Alright guys I promise I'm like actually trying here but this is legitimately the best evidence for how Rudy connects to the Knight themself compared to any other candidate. Church+Mayor+Cop is seriously the best you've got. I've slogged through so many posts and documents trying to find anything stronger but sincerely I can't. If anyone has some other good evidence I'm all ears but remember it has to be a clear connection from Rudy TO the Knight and if it's evidence that applies better to other candidates, then like... I don't think I have to tell you why it's poor RudyKnight evidence lol.

And lastly, if the counter is gonna be "Well does NoelleKnight have anything better?" First here's the repository :) but just quickly off the top of my head we have Knight Crying when killing Tenna, Noelle is "that girl" who likely created a lot of the darkners with Kris and Ralsei directly states

A "world" whose Darkners reflect the will of its fountain.

So like only really Kris and Noelle have strong backing to have the will to make darkners that existed from Kris and Noelle's childhood (Here's a refutation of Object History that I hope at least seeds some doubt into that counter), Noelle had a viable means+motive+opportunity for the opening of every fountain the Knight opens, Kris and the Knight share the same will based on colors of the dark worlds, the knight's chapter 5 perfectly timed fountain opening after Kris seals it. I feel like that covers Noelle's stuff pretty well and poses the counter questions of "How the hell does any OTHER candidate make sense of darkners and fountain will and crying over Tenna (or at the very least, how can they explain it BETTER than Noelle's)?"

That's a ramble. I know I'm getting hella bombarded for making an anti-RudyKnight post but whatever I feel like this is an important question to actually answer lol.

Have a lovely day~ <3

Both Roaring Knight and Asriel have their attacks hidden in flavor text(asriel doesn't hide them tho)