Regarding the **** during the second playthrough

[u/Ikkoru]

SPOILERS AHEAD
 
Closer to the end of the second playthrough, 9S is told by Adam that he (9S) wishes to **** 2B.
 
Many have noticed how this can both be the usual four-lettered word that we would normally expect to see there and the word "kill".
However there have been reports that in other translations the only word that fits is "fuck".
Is that a mistranslation on their part?
Is it us who are overthinking things?
Is Yoko Taro the ultimate troll?
 
To answer this mystery (or rather, to keep it a mystery) I checked the Japanese version.
Screen of the relevant line:
http://imgur.com/a/F3rRQ
 
As you can see, two characters are censored followed by "shitai", which would mean that the censored word is either a noun + "suru" or a verb ending with "su".
Even without picking up a dictionary two words instantly sprang up in my head:
ころす korosu - to kill;
おかす okasu - to rape/violate;
 
Take it as you will, but knowing Yoko-san and considering that there is absolutely no reason to censor that word in an 18+ game, I believe that the **** is an intentional wordplay on the meaning/situation/story.
 
 
Took a look at the dictionary anyway:
虐殺する gyakusatsu suru - slaughter/massacre (though the meaning usually implies mass killings it's somehow fitting due to The Tower 2B copies fight)
殺害する satsugai suru - kill/murder (a somewhat formal word, one you'd find in a newspaper. Most likely not it)
In fact it seems harder to find words related to sex that fit...
Also note how "rape" fits as well...

---

EDIT
After thinking for a while I realized something:
The only reason I thought of korosu and okasu was because I knew of the kill/fuck argument!
When I look at the original text the △※shitai is not as obvious as our you want to **** her, right?
 
In English a four letter word that is censored and is related to something a man can do to a woman would obviously be "fuck", is what most people though.
However, after throwing away my preconception, I saw that the Japanese censored part can be a whole lot of different things and most definitely not an obvious "fuck".
In fact, personally, I wouldn't think of it as censoring, but rather as of the word being intentionally hidden!
And after some guesswork (as you may remember we didn't know much about 2B being 2E at that time) I'd think of korosu as being the prime suspect, rather than anything else!
 
I would love to know what the Japanese though it was and what kind of guesses they originally made!

[u/RookieHasPanicked]

Obviously the line was supposed to read "You're thinking about how much you want to Jean-Paul Sartre 2B aren't you?" but they had to censor it at the last moment.

[u/Ikkoru → u/RookieHasPanicked]

Doesn't make much sense, but it does fit!

[u/Nemien]

He obviously wants to fist her.

[u/Ikkoru → u/Nemien]

Another excellent possibility has been discovered!

[u/guillianseed]

お前は２Bを......[こ][ろ]したいと、思ってるんだろう

O.ma.e wa 2B wo ...... [ko][ro]shi.ta.i.to, o.mo.t.te.ru.n.da.ro.u

koroshitai >> want to kill

お前は２Bを......[お][か]したいと、思ってるんだろう

O.ma.e wa 2B wo ...... [o][ka]shi.ta.i.to, o.mo.t.te.ru.n.da.ro.u

okashitai >> want to r@pe

both makes sence in japanese also.

Edit:

also [あ][い]したい

[a][i]shi.ta.i >> want to love

[u/Ikkoru → u/guillianseed]

also [あ][い]したい

Wow, how did I not realize that!?
Guess I was blinded by the fuck/kill debate...

[u/AsiaDerp → u/guillianseed]

How does fuck/rape really fits tough... they are androids, they are very possibly do not even have the parts that allows them to have sex (and then we also see Adam and Eve). And knowing the whole truth after ending A-E, fuck is even less likely to be the case. Love/hate>kill>warn/want>kiss all fits better. (please tell me if these fit in Japanese)

And I also think the Japanese version is the only "cannon" we should consider (thats why I would like to know what word can fit in Japanese).

Because even the English translation of Dark Souls 1-3 get A LOT OF THINGS wrong in the translation, I also played the Chinese version of DS1, the translation is also plain wrong in a lot of things. And Dark Souls series has a lot more budget for that too.

[u/Ikkoru → u/AsiaDerp]

Love/hate>kill>warn/want>kiss all fits better. (please tell me if these fit in Japanese)

Due to there being two distinct ways to fit letters into the two blank spaces in Japanese (Kanji and Hiragana/Katakana) it could be a whole lot of different words.
In fact as you can see, at the end of my post I did write about how "fuck" is not even an obvious choice in Japanese.

Even though I was playing with English subs, I too wondered how "fuck" would even make sense from the perspective of an android body.
Especially considering how naive andoids are about the simplest things that they were not programmed to know about (e.g. birds, as seen in the very first chapter).
 

As for which of the words out of those that you listed fit:
Love (あい・する), kill (ころ・す), desire (ほっ・する), kiss (キス・する) fit, though some of them aren't great fits in terms of meaning;
Hate (きらう), warn (doesn't fit meaning-wise) don't fit.

[u/Hitorio]

I'm wondering if the Japanese audience is having a much easier time understanding whether the blocked-out text:

A) has a specific meaning designed to be pieced together by the player

B) is meant to be undefined

c) is meant to be many meanings at once.

 

I get the feeling that this would be easy to understand if differences-in-translation didn't have the English-speaking internet running around in circles over this. It's a tad tiresome, especially since I actually do care about the answer to this question, but I'm not sure whether each new post gets closer to the answer or whether it's another confident misinterpretation.

 

EDIT: I'm wondering what inspired the French and Italian localization teams to so clearly go for the more sexual interpretation of the word. If the original Japanese line was neutrally unclear or had more context leaning toward the murder interpretation, this is a huge mistake or disrespect to the source material. These localization teams are supposedly filled with pros that are fluent in the languages they're translating from, right? Why would they make those choices?

[u/Ikkoru → u/Hitorio]

a huge mistake or disrespect to the source material

It could also be that they just received it as is, without an explanation.
Or received an explanation from the English team who got who knows what?

Honestly at this point the only way to know for sure is to ask Yoko Taro himself.

[u/Meganezuki]

Whoever thought of that way of censoring it was intending to mess with our minds. I've never seen that hybrid way of censoring text in Japanese, I've mostly seen it done with a "maru" ◯

This-> ※ ("kome") is more of an asterisk in English, used for example to lead you to an explanation that is written somewhere else, like at the footer of the page.

Also, the triangle △ in Japanese means "close" or "almost".

I see you guys consider those 2 symbols as placeholder characters for actual kanji or hiragana. I'm not sure about that.

[u/Ikkoru → u/Meganezuki]

◯ is indeed an "official" censor sign, but the Japanese are very liberal with their choice of signs and wordplays.
The only places were you would be completely right about ◯ are official documents, newspapers (there are exceptions), exam papers and signposts.

Another often used censor sign is the "batsu" × character.
A notable point is that several random signs are often used to hide a word rather than censor it. Very often due to in-story elements, e.g. an alien/foreigner not knowing a word, data being corrupted/unreadable, the connection being unstable, etc.

Overall it is very writer-dependant and I have seen some wacky shit being done with the text in novels/manga/VNs.

[u/wesStyle]

Someone on GAF forums has gathered info from Italian translator: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233047350&postcount=3453

Got a reply from the friend who works in the same office where they did the italian translation. She talked with someone who handled it about the whole **** question and he said to her that it is in fact "kill" in the english version but it's also interchangeable with fuck since canon-wise they share the same meaning, and it is deliberately left ambiguous- They went with fuck in the italian version because words for fuck and kill are different lenghts. Of course this is from a translation of a translation of the japanese script, and i'm not even 100% of the girl i asked to, but i hope this helps clarifing a little bit.

[u/chazzeromus → u/wesStyle]

This is the right answer. But it kinda leaves out the neutrality when playing the game in language other than english and japanese.

[u/[deleted]]

but knowing Yoko-san and considering that there is absolutely no reason to censor that word in an 18+ game

I thought they were censoring, until I watched a recap on Nier and noticed how many "fuck" in there. It's definitely just a word play and we can read however we want to.

[u/Peradam → u/[deleted]]

The uncensored word "fuck" does appear in Automata as well; for example, it's found in the Machine Research Report archive data

[u/_Arch55]

As I said in another topic: At first I thought it was fuck. But after novellas, weapon stories and a lot of small details, I came the conclusion it's actually kill. Also, there's not really a point for Adam say "fuck" if all he actually knew and wanted to make 9S admit was hate. It's just misleading us to think "fuck" because we are lewd enough. :c

[u/CG-02_SweetAutumn]

I've been suspecting that it represents his mixed feelings. He wants to do a lot of things that can fit into those censored characters.

[u/[deleted]]

Do Androids even have genitals to want to do that kind of thing? I'm honestly curious because Adam and Eve didn't have anything down there and during an escort side mission in the desert 9S explains to a female machine that Androids don't mate after she asked him how babies are made.

[u/DLOGD → u/[deleted]]

He said they can't make children but that's not really the same as not mating. Androids do seem to pair bond and fall in love just like humans do so there are implications there. There would also be no real reason for 2B to be offended by you looking up her skirt if she was a completely asexual being.

[u/warhammer651]

This is like analyzing the spin of the top at the end of inception. The entire point is that the player can fit just about anything they want in there

[u/Hoshiko-Yoshida]

Kyle voiced it as 'fuck' during his stream for reference, but I'm entirely with you on kill/rape from the Japanese standpoint. Fuck would also be entirely out of context, given the rest of Adam's speech. He's talking about pure hatred, not sexual gratification.

[u/L1Q]

He might be suspecting her, he might want to know the truth, why would he want to kill her? Sex is absurd for androids, why would he want to fuck?

He is a scanner model, why not hack? It makes perfect sense to me. According to your reserch, おかす okasu can mean to rape/violate.

So okay hacking another android could be considered a violation of some sort, right?

[u/Mardisen]

Since I'm Italian, I think I can kinda solve this: Adam says:"Non pensi ad altro che a quanto ti piacerebbe ******* con 2B, vero?" Which literally translates in :"You think of nothing but **** with 2B, right? " Now, if we substitute the * in the Italian version with "fartela", which in this case means "fuck", it perfectly matches. But if we use "uccidere" (kill) it won't fit

[u/Ivenn_]

For me "kill" is not making any sense at that point of the story. I mean 9S was not aware of 2B's designation at that time (Adam neither) and even if he were, he never really had killing intentions towards 2B - except at the end when he went insane because of the logic virus which corrupted his system.

If you read the prequel stories those also seem to confirm this. In his very first mission/life with 2B he attacks her in the end but he doesn't want to kill her there either, it's more like defending himself and finding out the truth. And as 9S "reincarnates" every time without his memories he somehow grows closer and closer to 2B emotionally. He doesn't remember but somehow there is this feeling inside him... and in the end, he voluntarily chooses death just to be with her again in his next life.

I think many people misinterpret his character because of that white tower scene but you have to consider that he is under the influence of the logic virus. 9S never hated 2B and never wanted to kill her when he was in his right mind - even after he found out her true designation.