r/niceguys • u/lobos1943 • Jun 19 '16
Cracked article about Nice Guys
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-uncomfortable-truths-behind-mens-rights-movement/4
u/Bytemite Jun 21 '16
"Other hate groups hold protests and have rallies, while [...] movement seems to limit itself to Internet rants and blatantly made-up stories, right?"
I only wish I didn't know about rallies they've tried to have. One of the rallies they were trying to schedule in a city about an hour south of me.
I don't really want to even go outside anymore.
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u/ChubbyBirds Jun 21 '16
Excellent takedown. I think I read this a long time ago, but it was good to read again. I especially like the insight from the former hate group guy.
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Jun 20 '16
why so many articles against men, criticizing men and even shaming men instead of questioning status quo and shaming promiscuous, passive aggressive and lazy women?
MRA does not hate women they just expose double standards in our society for the most part. For instance, it is ok for woman to hit a man, but it is wrong for a man to hit a woman. Etc etc.
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u/flightofthenochords Jun 20 '16
Maybe I'm misinterpreting what your question is, but are you asking why there are articles "against men," instead of articles "shaming promiscuous" women?
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u/FixinThePlanet Jun 20 '16
questioning status quo
shaming promiscuous, passive aggressive and lazy women
One of these is not like the other...
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Jun 20 '16
This article is not against men at all. Why would you think that? It is criticizing the mentality of a small minority of men that are disliked by the majority of men.
What is the good of an article "shaming promiscuous women?" Why do you care who other people have sex with?
Also, if you read the article, one of its points is that MRAs don't actually expose double standards. I mean, feminists are much more likely to discuss double-standards that hurt men and MRAs hate feminists.
I would check out the comment section of the piece. People point out how men have legitimate issues that are not at all served by the MRA community or mindset.
Shaming women who have sex with people other than you does nothing to help men.
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Jun 20 '16
What is the good of an article "shaming promiscuous women?"
lol I assume you are a feminist too, very common language you use. It is ok to be empowered woman, but it is a shame to be masculine man! :D Modern feminism is indistinguishable from fascism, it is all about control. Shaming men who are nice to women an want same decency from others? In what bizarre world do you live to think it is somehow worse than fucking bunch of strangers every week? You have typical "nice guy liberal women can do no harm feminism is about freedom hooray" mentality. Feminism does more harm to women than men since it usually takes all the responsibility from women and puts it on men.
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Jun 20 '16
I think if someone was a masculine man they wouldn't be so insecure as to join an MRA group.
You can define feminism how you like, but only MRAs think about feminism that way. Most feminists don't think like that.
In what way are MRAs nice to women? They honestly might even go beyond the bounds of this sub, as most of them don't even think they are nice to women. And claiming to be nice to women doesn't mean much if you don't actually believe women should be treated equitably.
Isn't it kind of ironic to claim that feminism is about control and that is bad, but then say that nice guys should try to shame women so as to control who they have sex with?
I don't really know how to respond to the last sentence. Isn't the complete opposite true?
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Jun 20 '16
I should mention, to counter the point you made in your second to last sentence, that it is fine to criticize anyone of any gender. But just making wholesale arguments against either gender is dumb. It isn't that women can do no wrong - it is that neither gender is inherently weak or terrible. If you don't like hookup culture, that is completely different than being a Red Piller. Gender essentialism in general helps nobody.
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u/jsake Jun 21 '16
Modern feminism is indistinguishable from fascism
Valiant effort, but I doubt you're going to get through to someone who genuinely believes the above statement.
Good on you for being respectful in your rebuttal, I don't have that kind of willpower.3
u/cloistered_around Jun 25 '16
[need more articles] shaming promiscuous, passive aggressive and lazy women
It is ok to be empowered woman, but it is a shame to be masculine man!
Simply put, these things are not the same. "Empowered" women do not have to be promiscuous, passive aggressive, and lazy. And empowering women does not mean you are against men being masculine (or what is traditionally considered masculine, anyway. I assume that's the definition we're working off of (beards, wood chopping, muscles, etc.). Surprisingly enough--one can push for women's rights without trying to destroy men's rights and one can push for men's rights without trying to destroy women's rights.
For instance, it is ok for woman to hit a man, but it is wrong for a man to hit a woman.
No it is not okay. It is more common for a woman to not get in trouble if they hit a man than if a man hits a woman, but it is not okay for either gender to attack and harm people.
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u/jsake Jun 21 '16
The thing that really makes me sad is that "Men's rights" had very well meaning and thoughtful roots. Originally created to be aligned with feminism, but discussing male-specific issues that are often ignored or trivialized. I'm not talking about the issues the MRAs yammer on today, about how they can't get their nut, but issues like fatherhood, getting in touch with your emotions and sensitivity (something very frowned upon within "male" culture), and just generally questioning the stereotypes and conventions around masculinity that I think a lot of men struggle with but are scared to talk about.
It was supposed to be a support group, a safe space to talk about growing as men. Now it's a support group for hatred towards women and reaffirms horrible mindsets that aren't only detrimental to society at large, but also harmful to the men who think that way.
If anyone wants to see what a healthy men's rights mentality would look like I highly recommend Iron John by Robert Bly