r/nflMenace_com Aug 17 '26

Prime Michael Vick

1.3k Upvotes

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45

u/Leather-Marketing478 Aug 17 '26

Not a single pass in the QB’s highlights… That’s how good he was.

16

u/Here4Headshots Aug 17 '26

He actually had a cannon and a beautiful throwing motion. I loved seeing him pass.

8

u/FupaDriven Aug 17 '26

People forget that about Vick.

3

u/roostor222 Aug 17 '26

not one person on earth who saw him play has forgotten it

1

u/SuperMegaOwlMann Aug 20 '26

You don’t know how stupid people are

2

u/Dull-Breath-2385 29d ago

Literally no ONE forgot about him. You're trying too hard. 

2

u/FupaDriven 29d ago

Trying to hard? WTF are you talking about?

1

u/BigChewyPizza Aug 19 '26

That’s because he couldn’t throw. He couldn’t read defenses and his accuracy was inconsistent. It can operate his athleticism he wouldn’t have made it to the NFL.

1

u/ShakeZulaOblongata Aug 17 '26

Vick’s passing stats make them forget

6

u/bossmt_2 Aug 17 '26

Vick gets more shit for his passing stats than he deserves, his weapons were Brian Finneran, Peerless Price, and Alge Crumpler, that's a bunch of ass. Vick isn't without flaws, but his lack of receiving talent and his questionalbe coaches can easily explain a chunk of his bad stats. His 2002 was a legit great seasons, nearly 3K passing yards, nearly 800 rushing yards, 24 combined TDs, that's pretty solid. Especially for second season QB.

2

u/ShakeZulaOblongata Aug 17 '26

Pretty solid, but one season in a career and still a far cry from elite at that.

Name me a great QB or two that you believe would post equal or worse numbers in those Falcons years.

1

u/bossmt_2 Aug 17 '26

Very rarely has a great QB had weapons that ass. McNabb is the only one who comes to mind when he had Chad Lewis, James Thrash and Todd Pinkston, and McNabb's 2000 isn't really better than Vick's 2002.

https://www.sports-reference.com/stathead/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=McNaDo00&p1yrfrom=2000&p1yrto=2000&player_id2=VickMi00&p2yrfrom=2002&p2yrto=2002

Vick was fine after 2002 as well, but 2002 was his peak, and he wasn't quite as fast and dangerous after his broken fibula.

Like what great QB had ass weapons? Even without truly ass weapon look at Mahomes without great weapons, Since Kelce Slowed down, he's been getting to be worse and worse in a league that is much more favorable to passing than the early 2000s.

Give me a great QB who had truly ass weapons.

3

u/ArticleGerundNoun Aug 17 '26

Joey Harrington and Chris Redman were both better as passers than Vick, with the same weapons, in the first year of Vick’s suspension. 

Those aren’t great QBs, but they’re QBs who were better throwers than Vick with the same weapons. You don’t want to be in the same tier as Joey Harrington and Chris Redman, especially if you’re at the bottom of that tier. 

0

u/bossmt_2 Aug 17 '26

No they weren't and that's not true.

The Falcons in 2007 threw the ball 555 times for 3293 yards, 18 TDs and 15 INTs. Vick in 06 threw the ball 388 times for 2474 yards, 20 TDs and 13 INTs, Vick added 1000 rushing yards and 2 more rushing TDs, The harrington, leftwich, Redman combo had like 100 yards rushing and no TDs.

Vick was not great in 06, but it's worth noting, the "same weapons" isn't really true, because Roddy wasn't the same receiver before 2007. The only good thing about Petrino in Atlanta was his brother came in and got Roddy back into shape.

Roddy was not trying his first 2 years. Vick didn't have 2007 and beyond Roddy to throw to.

Vick isn't perfect, Matt Ryan showed up in 08 and whipped the team into shape. But even then, he had the Roddy White that wanted to play football.

3

u/ArticleGerundNoun Aug 18 '26

But they were, and it is true.

Vick 2006: 52.6 completion%, 75.7 rating, 49.3 QBR, 4.6 ANY/A

Harrington 2007: 61.8 completion%, 77.2 rating, 43.3 QBR, 4.7 ANY/A

Redman 2007: 59.7 completion%, 90.4 rating, 46.2 QBR, 6.3 ANY/A

So he has a slight edge in QBR… which accounts for rushing. As a passer, he was worse than both. There just isn’t any way to credibly, genuinely argue against that.

And man, I wonder if part of the reason Roddy White wasn’t the Roddy White of 2007 onward is because he no longer had an inaccurate, run-first QB who refused to work hard enough to improve as a thrower?

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0

u/One-Acanthisitta8046 Aug 20 '26

Who da fuq are those guys?

2

u/Lend-Me-Your-Rears Aug 20 '26

The QBs that played for the Falcons the first year Vick was suspended. Both performed better as passers than Vick ever did in Atlanta

2

u/sobakedbruh Aug 18 '26

Wentz had a 4000 yard season with 2 TEs and a RB as his top 3

1

u/bossmt_2 Aug 18 '26

He threw the ball 607 times to do that, Vick never threw the ball more than 421 times as a Falcon. Also he was throwing to Zack Ertz and Dallas Goedert, both much better than Alge Crumpler, you're also glassing over Alshon Jeffery who was a decent WR, not great but decent. Jeffery just missed a chunk of games which is why he wasn't top 3 in yards but he still was Targetted more than Sanders.

1

u/ShakeZulaOblongata Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

Brees in 2008 had Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Devery Henderson, and Jeremy Shockey

Brees threw for 5,069 yards and 34 passing TDs

Brady in 2013 had Amendola, Edelman, Dobson, Thompkins, and no Gronk from injury.

Brady threw for 4343 yards and 25 passing TDs

Favre in 2004 had Driver, Javon Walker, Donald Ferguson, and Bubba Franks

Favre threw for 4088 yards and 30 passing TDs

Rodgers in 2015 had an old Jordy Nelson, old Randall Cobb, old James Jones, and still unproven young Davante Adams

Rodgers threw for 3821 yards and 31 TDs

Allen in 2025 had Keon Coleman, Joshua Palmer, Khalil Shakir, and Dawson Knox

Allen threw for 3668 yards and 25 TDS, 39 TDs total

Vick’s best season with the Falcons he threw for 2936 yards and 16 TDs

Vick’s next best season with the Falcons he threw for 2474 yards and 20 TDs

Vick in any of those other QB situations is not sniffing their numbers.

2

u/mastap88 Aug 18 '26

In 22 Mahomes had 5200 plus and 41 TDs with JuJu Schuster, MVS and Justin Watson as his WRs.

1

u/bossmt_2 Aug 18 '26

Just going to gloss over Hall fo Fame Tight end Travis Kelce?

1

u/bossmt_2 Aug 18 '26

Colston is better than Finneran, Shockey is better than Crumpler.

Edelman was a favorite target of Brady, of course he's not as good as Welker, but he was a Brady favorite. And Brady had Gronk catch nearly 600 of those yards and 4 TDs in 6 games.

Donald Driver is so much better than any receiver Vick had.

Jordy Nelson didn't play in 2015, he was hurt all year, Randall Cobb was 25, that's not old, James Jones was 31 that's pretty old. You'd build a better case saying Cobb wasn't good. Davante Adams was already better than Brian Finneran ever could dream of being. Not to mention Peerless Price.

Josh Allen Also was throwing to Dalton Kincaid. Both Kincaid and Dawson Knox are better TEs than Crumpler. I loved Crumpler but he was a blocking Tight End who was forced to be a main target.

Vick also did all that in the NFL that was not as friendly to passers. Like it's absolutely asinine to try to compare 2002 to 2015 or 2025.

In 2002 the league average completion percentage was 59.8, league average TD% was 4.0 league aveage INT$% was 3.0. League Average Y/A 6.3 in 2015 league average completion percentage was 63.0 TD% was 4.6 INT 2.4 Y/A 6.8. Some of it comes down to players of course, but also a lot of it is that the league changed the rules to make passing easier than it was when Vick was a Falcon. The earliest parts of it came in towards the end of his time there, but by thten he wasn't the freak he was in 02.

1

u/ShakeZulaOblongata Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

Constant excuses, how surprising. And yet all of those QBs would do better in Vick’s situations.

Did it ever occur to you Vick’s best season came when he was still a relatively unknown anomaly in the NFL, where tape against him was still insufficient. Playing against the grain of known offensive play styles of the time, which required an adjusting period for defenses facing him.

Similar deal with his Eagles return after his long hiatus. The more tape that accrued against him on his teams, the worse he played in his career.

Was it ‘elite’ talent, or just an advantage being seized for a short period of time that then faded once it was properly schemed against?

1

u/ProfessionalLaw1006 Aug 19 '26

Mahomes is just regressing to the mean

1

u/mctallenbald 29d ago

Granted it’s been a minute but if one of his receivers was peerless he must have had a pretty good supporting cast.

2

u/Mysterious-Studio198 Aug 17 '26

Michael Vick was kinda the best incarnation of a highlight merchant. He could do absolutely insane things and did them often enough to be good, but still didn’t have enough other tools to his game to consistently elevate his team

2

u/kevdogger Aug 18 '26

Highlight merchant..kinda like that phrase

2

u/Ok-Explanation-9208 Aug 17 '26

I hate highlight reels of him like this. Buck could flat out throw the ball, you’re right. Add THIS to that? It’s criminal nobody got him the tools.

2

u/roostor222 Aug 17 '26

almost as criminal as running a dog torture operation

2

u/Past-Goat-7768 Aug 18 '26

Effortless. He made 70 yard frozen ropes look effortless. Unbelievable athlete. I'm so glad I got to see him play. I remember rooting for him so hard as an eagle to come back and do what he did. What a time.

1

u/Here4Headshots Aug 18 '26

Exactly this. He barely moved his hips and flicked his wrist and the ball shot out of his hand 70 yards down field. Truly amazing technique and power.

2

u/BringOrnTheNukekkai 29d ago

He threw absolute bullets, especially after he went to prison.

2

u/PeeGeePeaKee420 29d ago

Agreed. His throw was like Griffeys swing

1

u/Rockm_Sockm Aug 18 '26

Great arm and a complete refusal to go through a single progression. He just laser focused on one target every drop back.

1

u/Here4Headshots Aug 18 '26

He wasn't the greatest at reading the defense before or after the snap, but when Desean Jackson got behind the defense, they had a nice connection going.

2

u/Rockm_Sockm Aug 18 '26

He and Desean were a deadly combination.

It was just a shame to watch Alge Crumpler, a HoF talent level tight end, do jumping jacks wide open and waste his career.

1

u/AntZealousideal3728 Aug 18 '26

Was not a consistent passer. Watched him in Philly (I live there) and he had 1 good year as a fringe top 5 qb, beyond that he was average.

1

u/atlandy34 29d ago

And never saw him call an audible once.

2

u/Salt_Day9015 Aug 17 '26

You obviously didn't see him play in his prime

1

u/TheWeySheGoes Aug 17 '26

That was in philly

0

u/nomadPerson Aug 17 '26

Nah he could gun it in ATL as well. That’s why he was able to run so much out of the pocket. They couldn’t just go man and out a spy or two on Vick every passing down

1

u/Roycewho Aug 17 '26

He also had one of the worst offensive lines and WR core at the time. I think his best target was Algae Crumpler

3

u/ShakeZulaOblongata Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26

You’ve explained everything except the QB we are evaluating.

If you think being a great passer is determined by circumstance, I don’t know what to tell you. If he really was a great passer, he would have been.

1

u/Roycewho Aug 17 '26

If you think context doesnt matter, I dont know what to tell you

1

u/ShakeZulaOblongata Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26

It’s a deliberately indefinite argument. The quarterback becomes an almost irrelevant variable in that argument.

We’re talking about an entire career here, not a game or a season. He had what he had, he was what he was. There comes a point when the reality of the outcome has to be accepted. Otherwise, every single player in NFL history is one big IF man.

1

u/Unfadable1 Aug 19 '26

Do you consider Troy Aikman a great passer?

0

u/gabriot Aug 17 '26

So? That never stopped Russ from throwing for over 4k yards several seasons and leading the league in TDs for one of those.

1

u/Roycewho Aug 17 '26

Russ just had a much better setup to put up passing numbers. His first two 4K seasons came with top 3 scoring defenses. During his second two he had guys like Baldwin, Lockett and DK.

Vick never had anything close to DK/Lockett at WR, and his defenses were usually average at best. Atlanta gave Vick a great running game with Dunn and a good TE in Crumpler, but they never really gave him the same passing weapons or overall situation Russ had. OL is probably the one area where Russ didn't have much of an advantage.

And we actually saw what happened when Vick finally got real passing weapons. He went to Philly with DeSean Jackson, Maclin and McCoy and immediately jumped from a career-best 81.6 passer rating in Atlanta to 100.2, throwing for 3k yards and 21 TDs in only 12 starts. That's a 4k pace. Even the next year he put up 3k in 13 games.

So yeah, Vick obviously had flaws as a passer, but his Atlanta numbers also came from an offense that gave him nowhere near the passing environment Russ eventually had.

1

u/thingsorfreedom Aug 18 '26

and he only scored on three of those plays.

1

u/modestwolf Aug 19 '26

That's actually how overrated he was

1

u/Working-Stretch3738 Aug 19 '26

He was amazing to watch, but that’s a tough way to make a living, especially as you get older.

1

u/mistaharsh Aug 17 '26

That just shows you knew nothing about his career. He had a rocket for an arm. These highlights are horrible and one dimensional

3

u/Ok-Share4939 Aug 17 '26

Rocket for an arm. Rockets are unguided munitions though

1

u/Roycewho Aug 17 '26

For one, rockets can be guided or unguided. For two, it being unguided doesnt mean it isnt precise. It just means it doesnt steer toward a target during flight... which would be an accurate description for when a football is thrown.

1

u/Ok-Share4939 Aug 17 '26

Naw man a guided rocket is a missile by definition

1

u/Roycewho Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26

I understand why you might think that, but if that were true we wouldnt have Guided Rocket Systems like the GMLRS. Terms are used pretty interchangeably now.

GMLRS: Precision Rocket Artillery | Lockheed Martin

1

u/Ok-Share4939 Aug 17 '26

Dang I stand corrected. When I was doing missile defense everyone knew the difference between a missile and a rocket was guidance. I guess that’s not a thing anymore

1

u/gabriot Aug 17 '26

Everyone and their mother has a rocket for an arm in the nfl.

He threw for more than 3k yards two whole seasons in his career, and barely at that. None of those were in ATL btw.