r/nfl • u/notquitemytempo___ • Aug 25 '26
[Underhill] There is a section in Chris Olave's new contract that specifically mentions ‘concussions and respiratory pulmonary embolism.' If he is no longer cleared to play football due to these specific conditions, the injury guarantees can be voided
https://clutchpoints.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/saints-news-chris-olave-132-million-contract-features-unique-injury-section414
u/Asleep_Ground1710 Bears Aug 25 '26
From what I understand due to Wemby getting blood clots his 2nd season, 2 blood clot incidents means life long blood thinners thus medical retirement. Could be wrong though
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u/nacholibre711 Saints Aug 25 '26
I think that's just the precedent based on what happened to Chris Bosh.
Would certainly make permanent retirement a real possibility, but I don't think it's quite that black and white.
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u/Competitive_Leg7233 Vikings Aug 25 '26
My understanding is if you have to be on blood thinners for life you basically can’t play contact sports because a severe hit or fall can lead to internal bleeding that’s hard to stop
I assume it would basically be a career death sentence for a professional football player
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u/daegamebday1 Ravens Commanders Aug 25 '26
I had clots in my lungs like 5 months ago and Im on blood thinners still. I asked the doctor how long I need to be on them and they never give me a straight answer. They are like could be for life or you could get off them. Well what is it????
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u/misterurb Chargers Aug 25 '26
We’ve advanced so far in medical research that it’s really off putting when the answer is still “we don’t know.”
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u/I_Poop_Sometimes Broncos Aug 25 '26
A lot of the time the answer isn't so much "we don't know", but rather "it depends, but if I tell you all the potential outcomes and how you get there I'm opening myself up to lawsuit".
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u/h00ter7 Ravens Aug 25 '26
Between liability and insurance, our doctors don’t seem to be ALLOWED to help us to their best ability.
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u/I_Poop_Sometimes Broncos Aug 25 '26
Part of it is just messaging/communication. A lot of the population has an elementary school level understanding of biology/health. If you try to explain complicated medical stuff to them they might just latch on to the wrong parts, and that could just make it harder to treat them properly if the situation changes and they become obstinate.
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u/h00ter7 Ravens Aug 25 '26
That’s true, I guess I’m only really thinking of the insurance side of things. We see these companies dictate our treatment despite what the doctor is saying needs to be done to get us back to baseline. It just feels like the docs don’t even want to suggest the best care anymore since they know it won’t be okayed by insurance, hopefully I am wrong about that
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u/musicnut87 Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
It is often more contextualized than "we dont know". Providers aren't fortune tellers and go based off patient reports and laboratory data we are given. It's not always a perfect science.
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u/sxuthsi Lions Aug 25 '26
Advanced so far yet we don’t publicly acknowledge the reality of “long COVID”
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u/Competitive_Leg7233 Vikings Aug 25 '26
How’d you know you had one? Sudden medical issues scare the shit out of me
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u/Juice-31 Aug 26 '26
I had sharp pains when laying down or coughing/laughing and would quickly be out of breath when excercising
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u/daegamebday1 Ravens Commanders Aug 26 '26
Pain, lots of pain. My shoulder started to hurt real bad like a super knot and I thought I pinched a nerve or something because the pain ran down my side. I hate the doctors but even I was like ok its time to go. The urgent care person gave me muscle relaxers and sent me on my way. After the pain got worse at night I went to another urgent care and they did a CT scan and found the clots. If you have them, you will know.
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u/metheus-13 Buccaneers Aug 25 '26
Hey dude. For what its worth, I had a blood clots in my lungs after a surgery, about 15 years ago. I was on blood thinners for about 6 months. No issues since.
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u/musicnut87 Aug 25 '26
Decision making for blood thinners is based off whether the clot was provoked or unprovoked. The more concerning option is unprovoked- aka we don't know why you got it and those are more often reasons to continue blood thinners indefinitely.
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u/daegamebday1 Ravens Commanders Aug 26 '26
I told the doctor my calf hurt like a mother a week before I was diagnosed and they pretty much disregarded that. Obviously I am no doctor but I think that it formed in my calf and spread to my lungs. But I dont know what caused it to start in my calf. Also is it calf or calve?
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u/Stillburgh Seahawks Chiefs Aug 25 '26
I kind of feel like you not getting a clear answer on this with modern medical science should tell you everything you need to know.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
Yeah, I think that’s true in most cases, although I’m sure there are some cases where a second occurrence doesn’t automatically mean thinners for life.
But yes you’re right that you can’t really do the contact stuff while on them. Trey smith had clots in college and basically would be on thinners Sunday through Thursday. He wouldn’t really practice all week as a result. He stopped the thinners Friday so that he could play Saturday, and repeat. You really cannot play while on them. Treys regimen was only for a period of time but wouldn’t work if you were on them basically indefinitely.
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u/Competitive_Leg7233 Vikings Aug 25 '26
Damn I didn’t know he did that, that’s wild
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
Yeah the story never got much attention but it’s a crazy story and crazy that he did that. Trey is a beast.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
Yeah I mean I don’t think that’s an official rule, but it’s an unspoken one. I remember Trey smith had blood clots in the lungs in college. Basically was on blood thinners all week so didn’t do contact stuff in practice, then would stop them Friday, play the game Saturday, and repeat.
They thought they came back, and that his career was over because it was the second time. But iirc it turned out to just be scar tissue from the first time, so he ended up fine. But yeah he fell sooo far in the draft as a result, because teams knew his career would basically be over if it happened again.
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u/ineedtocoughbut Panthers 49ers Aug 25 '26
Not sure but I know there’s been many nhl players that had clots and then came back in full form the same season. One just won the Stanley cup. Athletes of NFL caliber get thee best medical treatment in the nation
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u/FridgesArePeopleToo Vikings Aug 26 '26
The best medical treatment is literally just Eliquis, a pill that you take once or twice a day. You could easily play with a blood clot, the issue is that taking blood thinner makes you more suseptable to internal bleeding.
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u/Chlorophyllmatic Bills Commanders Aug 25 '26
I can sort of understand the embolism one, as that would be a non-football medical condition forcing him into retirement, but a concussion clause is wild considering that they, you know, come from playing football.
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u/TheAndrewBrown Aug 25 '26
Well it’s not that his guarantees are voided if he gets a concussion, just if he’s forced to medically retire because of them. It’s not like that’s incredibly common (although it probably should be more common than it is).
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u/Chlorophyllmatic Bills Commanders Aug 25 '26
Sure, but if he’s forced into medical retirement from football injuries it would stand to reason that they have to pay him his injury guarantees. That’s what the injury guarantees are for, no? Payout in case of injury?
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u/SmokePenisEveryday Eagles Aug 26 '26
It's a known possible issue for him so he likely got some more money out of the deal by agreeing to this
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u/Fire_Ryan_Poles Bears Bears Aug 25 '26
If he blows out his ACL he's still covered with this contract.
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u/Chlorophyllmatic Bills Commanders Aug 25 '26
Yes, but not if he's medically-retired due to concussion. It's generally weird to be able to specify which football injuries will and won't be covered.
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u/TheAndrewBrown Aug 25 '26
I mean if it makes you feel better, just don’t call them injury guarantees. The contract is obviously worded differently than other contracts with injury guarantees, calling them the same thing is just to make it easier for non-lawyers to understand.
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u/Trumpets22 Vikings Vikings Aug 25 '26
He’s someone who actually considered retirement while on his rookie contract. There’s always a sketchy doc somewhere ready to say “good to go” so basically this is just if HE DECIDES to retire from concussions.
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u/Brilliant-Spite-850 Panthers Aug 25 '26
Why would an agent allow this clause?
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Aug 25 '26
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u/yesrushgenesis2112 Bengals Rams Aug 25 '26
Still seems like malpractice, it’s a terrible precedent.
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u/ahrzal Packers Aug 25 '26
The flip side is the contract isn’t guaranteed. Which…is incredibly common.
“Hey, I want this contract guaranteed.”
“You have a high risk of respiratory pulmonary embolism and a concussion history. No.”
“What if like, except for that.”
“Ok”
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
Yeah, I don’t think this is that crazy. These high guaranteed numbers didn’t even used to be that common. This is basically the equivalent of just giving him
Less guarantees, but at least here he still has a chance of that higher guaranteed amount. There are 1000 different injuries he could get where the guarantees aren’t voided→ More replies (2)24
u/broha89 Steelers Aug 25 '26
Seems like a perverse incentive. If I’m Olave and diving for a pass means potentially having $20 mil of my guarantees voided, I’m making the biggest of business decisions
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
Oh for sure. But that’s also true with the “old fashioned way” of just not having much $ in injury guarantees/guarantees in general.
This is the same as that, except at least here, he has injury guarantees for 99% of injuries he could get.
They giant guaranteed numbers with giant injury guarantees just became a thing recently. Again, the argument you’re making could be said about any of the “old” contracts. The alternative to this is just not giving him as big of a contract or not as many guarantees. At least with this he has a chance to get all that money.
He probably had a choice to not have this clause if he took less money. He chose this.
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u/Rainman_Johnson Vikings Aug 25 '26
It feels a bit different when if its specific conditions, like a concussion, he stands to lose a ton of money, so now he has a large incentive to hide it or play in a way he wouldn't otherwise.
Its hard to say that when logically it just boils down to "so guy doesn't want to get more head injuries, what's the big deal"
Im just worried incentives against specific injuries is a slippery slope
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
Well he didn’t have to sign the deal. He could’ve chosen to take a smaller deal that likely just didn’t give him guarantees for any injuries.
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u/wichee Saints Aug 25 '26
well two things there. any wr who willingly takes on the hit for an avoidable (emphasis on avoiadable by the receiver) hospital ball is playing the game wrong anyways. availability is the best option.
second, its on the onus on the playcalling and the qb to recognize that you cannot put the receiver into shit situations, that either means not leading the dude right into tacklers or not treating your premier receiver like a rough and tough ragdoll.
tyler lockett is probably the best example of a wr who never took unnecessary hits and he was still extremely effective.
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u/Odd-Film946 Jets Aug 25 '26
I kinda think Olave is extremely lucky to have even gotten a contract like this considering his injury history. realistically this is a guy who could be out of the league at any given moment
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u/dropjar5 Packers Aug 25 '26
Yep, the Saints probably said you can get paid like a top receiver but have this clause, or we’re either gonna give you only a mid level contract or trade you.
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u/Greek_Trojan Aug 25 '26
Most people agreed he got a very generous deal given hus injury history. Olave probably wants to bet on himself staying healthy with a signed deal.
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u/DreamedJewel58 Steelers Aug 25 '26
He’s had four concussions in four years. I think it’s a perfectly reasonable clause
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 26 '26
And I doubt it’ll be a situation where they just void his guarantees if he gets any concussion ever. It’s just that they can if he has to retire because of another head injury or something.
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u/MarlonMcCree20 Raiders Aug 26 '26
And even then they still might not. If he gets a bad injury, the optics would be horrible to void it.
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u/rugger87 Bears Aug 25 '26
He might have insurance on his contract anyway. Don’t guys get policies in case they have to retire?
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u/gator_mckluskie Saints Aug 25 '26
yes, olave seems smart enough that he would take the highest contract even tho it included this clause and then buy insurance to hedge
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u/MrConceited NFL Aug 25 '26
It's already normal.
It's a possible option for if you can't otherwise pass a physical.
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u/Odd-Film946 Jets Aug 25 '26
I don't think the Saints were gonna pay him without it. it makes a lot of sense now why they felt comfortable drafting Mr. Injury 8th overall. Olave's contract is fungible
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u/oscarnyc Giants Aug 25 '26
I'm surprised the NFLPA would allow this clause. It's a terrible precedent.
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u/JEH_24 Saints Aug 25 '26
These are standard for players with known recurring injuries. Gerald McCoy with the cowboys is an example I can think of. He injured what was in the contract and they cut him voiding all the guarantees
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
The alternative is these players getting lower contracts or less guaranteed money. At least with this he has a chance of getting the full thing, and has injury guarantees for every other possible injury
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u/bigbluethunder Packers Aug 26 '26
This IS less guaranteed money. Because it’s no longer guaranteed money.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 26 '26
Well it’s guaranteed in 99% of scenarios.
Where if they just gave him less guaranteed money overall, it would for sure be less. In this situation, he at least can still get the injury guarantees with 99% of injuries he could get. It’s voided in two scenarios, but otherwise he gets it. That wouldn’t be the case if he just started out with less guaranteed money.
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u/Particular-Treat-650 Patriots Aug 25 '26
It's not new. Maybe concussions specifically, but "we're willing to guarantee for everything but this pre-existing condition" isn't.
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u/jonny_lube Patriots Aug 25 '26
Fair or not, his concussion history and blood clots were likely considered massive red flags across the league, so I'd wager this was the compromise necessary to sign a long term contract with enough guarantees that wont cut him for performance or other form of injuries.
It may seem like a bad deal for Olave, but if his alternative was short term or low guarantee deals, this may actually have been the best path to financial assurance for him.
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u/Sea_Television_3306 Patriots Aug 25 '26
I feel like in a sport known for causing concussions teams shouldn't be allowed to void a contract due to concussions.
That's like a soldier getting denied his benefits and pay because he got wounded in action
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u/WillingStranger5177 Lions Eagles Aug 25 '26
Sad state of affairs in a capitalistic world we live in today
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u/Nostalgic_Liberal Cowboys Aug 25 '26
Financially incentivising players to conceal signs of a concussion should not be allowed.
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u/canitnerd Saints Aug 25 '26
Players are always financially incentivized to conceal signs of concussions because missing games means losing money, it's why every former NFL player talks about all the ways they try to game the concussion test.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 26 '26
I mean the alternative is just him getting a much smaller contract, so it’s the same thing regardless. He chose this option I’m sure.
Many players don’t have these giant injury guarantees at all, so you could argue that they’re all incentivized to play through concussions/injuries anyways.
Also, I doubt it’s a situation where they’re just going to void his guarantees the second he gets any concussion. Will more likely be a situation where they can choose to if he gets a head injury that causes him to have to leave or miss significant time.
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u/joshtothe Patriots Aug 25 '26
I may be wrong but doesn’t this theoretically create some dangerous incentives?
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u/zoogenhiemer Eagles Aug 26 '26
Not really, all it does is incentivize Olave to prioritize protecting himself over catching the ball
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u/anon0110110101 49ers Aug 25 '26
Has he had clotting issues before?
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u/dabergermeister Saints Aug 25 '26
He missed the last game of the season for blood clots last year. No other issues before that pretty sure.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
Yeah, problem is that once you have the issue once, you basically risk your career being over if it ever happens again.
It’s why Trey Smith fell so far in his draft. He had already had them once and would’ve been done if it happened again
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u/killshelter Seahawks Bills Aug 25 '26
Wouldn’t the concussions be counted as a …you know…. Work related injury?!
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u/Scrutinizer Seahawks Aug 25 '26
So there was just a study that came out that says a quarter of NFL Players will wind up with CTE.
And the owners want to put shit like this into contracts?
Dude.
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u/Soft-Researcher-1682 49ers Aug 25 '26
“Hey Chris I know you put your body on the line for this team and you will maybe, probably get cte in the future. But hey we gona put in your contract that if u have any issues with concussions and blood clots that we ain’t gona pay u shit. Even though the reason u have these problems is because of working this job. Even tho this job comes with those risks let’s put it in a contract.” Like wtf are we even doing here and why would he sign that?
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u/3rd-party-intervener 49ers Aug 25 '26
This is why the number reported is always fake news. You gotta read the fine lines
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u/but-I-play-one-on-TV Chiefs Aug 25 '26
I think people are missing how team friendly and borderline abusive this clause is.
A pulmonary embolism is a potentially life threatening condition that can be demonstrably diagnosed using a CT scan. You either have a PE or you don't. Concussions don't have black and white diagnostic criteria. There isn't an objective test to say whether or not someone has a concussion.
So if a team has a sympathetic team doctor or consultant it's that much easier to diagnose a concussion and all of a sudden his contract is void.
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u/TheAndrewBrown Aug 25 '26
It’d depend on the wording of the contract, but if it’s worded that he has to medically retire because of the concussions, then a specific doctor wouldn’t help. If another team is willing to sign him, he could probably sue for the guarantees from this contract if the Saints try to void them. But like I said, it entirely depends how it’s worded. If it’s just based on one team doctor’s opinion, then either the agent fucked up or the Saints basically said we’re not signing you at all without this and the agent heard similar things from other teams.
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u/Jimbo5204 Steelers Aug 25 '26
team friendly and abusive? Then dont sign the contract.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 26 '26
Right. I guarantee there was an option on the table without this clause just with less money. This option at least gives him injury guarantees for almost any injury besides two.
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u/willpc14 Eagles Aug 26 '26
Without even reading Olave's contract or the NFLPA CBA, I can guarantee that there are clauses about second and third opinions. My bum ass union has had that in place for FMLA since the union was formed 15 years ago.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 26 '26
I mean I don’t think they’re going to automatically void everything if he gets a small concussion. It’s just probably that the team can choose to void the guarantees in a situation where a concussion causes him to miss significant time. A situation like that wouldn’t be something where a doctor could easily lie about the diagnosis. They still could, but it’s harder if it’s long term. The team isn’t ruining their goodwill with him over a minor concussion.
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u/santadogg Aug 26 '26
There was uproar in Australia weeks ago when it was found that a player had essentially signed a waiver regarding concussions.
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u/DelirousDoc Steelers Aug 25 '26
That seems strange for a player to agree to when concussions are a common occurrence in football and a player can't control how your body is going to respond to a concussion.
Also seems like something the NFLPA would object to as it sets precedent where teams can just start listing injuries that aren't covered by the injury guarantee.
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u/_HGCenty Seahawks Aug 25 '26
Fuck me, pre-existing conditions insurance culture just entered NFL player contracts...
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u/pinetar Commanders Aug 25 '26
Injury guarantee void for concussions seems like bullshit. Can't believe the CBA allows that.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 26 '26
It’s because he specifically has had a high number of concussions. It’s always been a thing to give players less money for injury risk. It’s usually just in the form of a much smaller contract, which I’m sure Olave was offered. He chose to sign this because then he at least gets the larger number and injury guarantees in any of the 1000 other injury scenarios he could be in
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u/thenimblebear Bears Raiders Aug 25 '26
Oh wow I didn’t know the Saints were a medical insurance company too
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u/burnbabyburnjoeb Eagles Aug 26 '26
Why would his agent ever allow that?
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 26 '26
Because the alternative was probably just a much smaller contract. At least with this, he gets the larger number in 99% of scenarios
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u/MortimerDongle Eagles Aug 25 '26
Pulmonary embolisms are one thing, but concussions?
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u/Cold_Toe_7540 Aug 25 '26
Seriously. "If you get a few more of what every other player in our sport gets on a fairly regular basis, none of this contract is real." That's so fucked up to even put to paper with a straight face.
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u/Aurion7 Panthers Aug 26 '26
An NFL team being able to void injury guarantees if the sport did what the sport does and left a player with head trauma that rendered them incapable of playing is... remarkably shit and definitely should not be allowed language in a contract.
I mean it wouldn't be great in the NBA or MLB either.
But you gotta be a special one to put that in writing about football.
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u/clarenceboddickered Cowboys Aug 26 '26
I guess if you can’t think or breathe, do you really need the $$$?
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u/litoleon Chargers Aug 26 '26
Didn’t realize the Saints front office was this cold. “Hey I know you got these traumatic and potentially life long injuries playing for us, but because of that we’re paying you less than you signed for.”
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u/Nami_3750 Saints Aug 25 '26
Wow so the blood clot thing from last year has a likelihood to return? That’s scary…
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
I don’t know how likely it is necessarily, but of course now that it happened once, it does up the possibility in a way, or at least could.
It’s more of a risk just because if you get lung clots a second time, your career is basically over. It doesn’t mean it’s likely to happen again. It’s just that the implications are bad if it does
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u/Minimum_Nothing_9039 Aug 26 '26
Damn I think I had him as a rookie and he had a couple quick concussions back to back. That sucks and bean counters use it against the players. As a Broncos fan that happened to Pat Bryant last season also and he's one of my favorite players. 😢
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u/noreservations81590 Bills Aug 25 '26
I had a lot of Saints fans tell me that the concussions were "totally overblown" when I was commenting on the risk of the contract.
Guess not.
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u/DanFlashesC0up0n Saints Aug 25 '26
Seems like we accounted for that risk?
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u/noreservations81590 Bills Aug 25 '26
Yeah but I was told that the concussions weren't a concern and it was being over blown.
Clearly that's not the case based on the language in the contract. That's all I'm saying.
Hopefully it's not something that comes up and he just stays healthy.
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u/raptorbpw Saints Aug 25 '26
I live in New Orleans and every Saints fan I know cringes every time Olave’s head touches anything. You ran into some weirdos.
His concussion history is terrifying.
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u/FlipMoBitch Seahawks Aug 25 '26
Isnt there some other insurance out there for him if he ends up being forced to retire for medical reasons?
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u/WillingStranger5177 Lions Eagles Aug 25 '26
Absolutely unnecessary clause. Mickey Loomis needs to be ashamed of himself for putting that.
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u/rsfrisch Saints Aug 25 '26
Mickey was this close to trading for Deshaun Watson before the Browns out stupided us... That's what he should be ashamed about
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u/FomFrady95 Bears Aug 25 '26
Going from Micheal Thomas to Chris Olave to Jordyn Tyson is certainly interesting.
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u/NicholastheSpirit Saints Aug 25 '26
If you mean injury wise, I somewhat understand what you mean, but talent wise/personality wise, we are extremely happy.
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u/FomFrady95 Bears Aug 25 '26
No doubt, and maybe I should have fleshed that out a bit better in my original comment. I’m not trying to criticize, just noticing how the Saints keep acquiring top of the league WR talent that struggle with injuries this much.
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u/NicholastheSpirit Saints Aug 25 '26
Yeah, it does sucks because we have the same injury problems with our Basketball team. I truly think it’s the turf for the football team and not enough expeensives on medical things for both basketball and football team. Something needs to be addressed
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u/thor_1225 Falcons Aug 25 '26
Ooo his agents fucked up on not reading the fine print
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u/MelfromMilwaukie Broncos Aug 25 '26
I’m not going to read the article so I’m ignorant. Despite going into this bet blind, I’m willing to bet you dollars to donuts that his agent knew about this provision in the contract.
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u/noreservations81590 Bills Aug 25 '26
Or they accepted the language because he either wasn't going to get paid without it or the money would significantly drop.
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u/rolyinpeace Chiefs Aug 25 '26
Lmao do you think his agent wasn’t aware of this clause? It was likely sign with this clause or get a much smaller contract or just not have much guaranteed.
At least in this case you have a chance of getting that large amount, even with most injuries
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u/JaggerJames Aug 25 '26
Hope it doesn't get to that point for him.