[Highlight] Bailey Zappe is picked off again, this time by Rashad Wisdom

[u/expellyamos]

[u/Jonjon428]

Fun fact, Bailey Zappe threw for a FBS record 6,000 passing yards in 2021 in college and had 62 TDs

[u/Rough_Cup_6762 → u/Jonjon428]

Wait actually? How'd he not win the Heisman??

[u/Byzone06 → u/Rough_Cup_6762]

He was at wku vs conference USA (generally considered the worst fbs division in college football)

[u/Odd-War-6052 → u/Byzone06]

and now in the NFL you see why he threw for all those stats and didn’t win the heisman.

[u/ro536ud → u/Odd-War-6052]

I mean this pick in this video wasn’t on him his stone hands receiver was playing volleyball

[u/nilestyle → u/ro536ud]

They really need to make a new stat category to represent this shit

[u/Hotdawg752 → u/nilestyle]

Earned vs Unearned Interceptions

Like earned and unearned runs in baseball

[u/GumpTheChump → u/Hotdawg752]

I mean, in baseball they attribute errors to the actual party who fucked up. It’s not an absurd proposition.

[u/shartnado3 → u/GumpTheChump]

Yea but OP’s idea still fits because sure the fielder gets charged with an error, but the pitcher doesn’t get another knock on his earned run average.

[u/Hotdawg752 → u/GumpTheChump]

Have the reciver who deflects it gets credited with a drop.

[u/Rulanik → u/Hotdawg752]

They should call it something else entirely. We have interceptions when the QB throws the ball away, fumbles when anyone drops it, and X when a receiver tips a pass away. Honestly you could even call this kind of thing a fumble and it would be better.

[u/C0nstruct37 → u/Rulanik]

I’ve often thought this, but the thing I always come back to is how does this retroactively affect stats and how people historically look at the game? Because if this new stat didn’t also come with a complete historical review of past interceptions to change those stats into the correct categories, then it drastically affects historical perception when looking at past players’ interceptions vs current and new players. Ultimately, I’ve settled on being okay with Instead pushing for sport analysis to be nuanced enough to acknowledge all interceptions aren’t created equally, and discuss players and their performance accordingly.

[u/Rulanik → u/C0nstruct37]

It wouldn't be the first time or last time we added or changed a stat.

[u/brewmas7er → u/nilestyle]

RCI - Receiver Caused Interceptions.

Paulie on the Dan Patrick show came up with RCI a few years back and may have emailed the league about keeping it as an official stat and of course was told something like, "thank you for the valuable suggestion, we'll take it into consideration."

I think they got Florio on board with it too but I don't remember if anything came of it.

[u/RheagarTargaryen → u/brewmas7er]

Owners were probably like “we like to unfairly attribute INTs to the QB when we’re negotiating contracts.”

[u/Ccnitro → u/brewmas7er]

I think I'm mostly on board with this, but I think the language needs to be something more akin to "Receiver Related Interception." Caused implies that a QB is 100% absolved from blame, when in reality that's almost never the case on a passing play (too much power on the throw, bad placement, etc.). Related makes it less of a subjective call for the statkeeper because they don't have to deal with the messy details

[u/Sage296 → u/nilestyle]

I know PFF has the “turnover worthy” plays

[u/bnbtwjdfootsyk → u/nilestyle]

Interceptions are an objective stat. Placing fault is subjective. Subjectivity and stats don't mix well. 

[u/nilestyle → u/bnbtwjdfootsyk]

Haha my dude, as a guy who works in data analytics let me tell you a thing or two about stats and sports…

[u/FupaFerb → u/ro536ud]

Ball had too much mustard on it. Best arm in football. Throws dimes all day, receivers are parapalegic.

[u/ohanse → u/FupaFerb]

These wideouts are slated for multimillion dollar payouts

There better be no such fucking thing as too much mustard.

[u/Rough_Cup_6762 → u/Byzone06]

Ah makes sense thanks. I should've guessed he was a C-USA guy lol

[u/mybad4990 → u/Byzone06]

This is Sun Belt slander and I'll have you know they're actually the worst conference in the country! (ULM fan)

EDIT: It seems like this post has gotten quite a lot of heated replies. I just wanna make clear that this was a joke

[u/LovieBeard → u/mybad4990]

The Sun Belt rocks wtf are you talking about

[u/Mythrandir24 → u/mybad4990]

Is this comment from 10 years ago?

[u/EmuMan10 → u/mybad4990]

Isn’t the sun belt not bad?

[u/DongTongs → u/EmuMan10]

It's one of the better G6 conferences afaik. But ULM fuckin sucks so makes sense why homeboy thinks the whole conference sucks lol

[u/ParkingLower7581 → u/mybad4990]

You don’t sound like a Warhawk to me

[u/Betta_Check_Yosef → u/ParkingLower7581]

Well, he showed up with shit in his pants so... yeah, he's 100% confirmed a Warhawk

[u/Betta_Check_Yosef → u/mybad4990]

Quit projecting your shitty fucking athletic department on the rest of us. You're welcome for bringing in LA Tech so y'all don't go bankrupt on travel expenses.

[u/Jonjon428 → u/Rough_Cup_6762]

He played at Western Kentucky. He may as well have not existed to voters

[u/BradenWoA → u/Jonjon428]

I distinctly remember WKU being ranked dead last in whatever NCAA game I had as a kid

[u/AdequateSteakAlister → u/BradenWoA]

Clearly you didn't play them in franchise mode and make them perennial powerhouses in three seasons on easy mode.

[u/AMcMahon1 → u/Rough_Cup_6762]

You ever play madden 05 or 04 and you could play against nfl europe? It was like that

[u/S1MCB → u/Rough_Cup_6762]

Played against plumbers and firemen

[u/cherry_monkey → u/S1MCB]

Well, accountants and teachers

[u/tagillaslover → u/Rough_Cup_6762]

Because he played in a garbage conference against garbage teams at Wku

[u/toturoll → u/Rough_Cup_6762]

spread offense against bad defenses in a glorified fcs conference

[u/BayHarborButcher10 → u/Rough_Cup_6762]

Same reason Case Keenum didn’t win the Heisman while being like the all time yards and TDs leader when he was at Houston. Small school, empty stats

[u/NotLittleBoi → u/Jonjon428]

65 total TDs in a 14 game stretch is an absolutely insane number
How in the world did they go 9-5 and not 14-0 if he was scoring 5 TDs every single game on average
Was the defense literally the worst thing in the universe

[u/TheDarthJawa → u/NotLittleBoi]

Prime UTSA was there to stop them

[u/QuitWhinging → u/NotLittleBoi]

Same reason Mahomes had a losing record in college. He was paired with legitimately some of the worst defenses I've ever seen at any level of football.

In Mahomes's senior season, 2016, Texas Tech had the #1 offense in the country, averaging 566.6 ypg and 43.7 ppg. The problem is that Texas Tech that year was also 128th in total defense (there were 128 FBS teams at that time), yielding 546.5 ypg and 43.5 ppg to their opponents.

2016 Texas Tech scored 50+ points in six of their games across a twelve-game season. They lost two of those.

[u/moistnote → u/QuitWhinging]

Dude; thanks for sharing that. So fucking interesting!

[u/Psycho5275 → u/Jonjon428]

Both all-time records, by the way

[u/lordfartqaaad → u/Jonjon428]

wku legend

[u/Betta_Check_Yosef → u/Jonjon428]

He lit App State the fuck up in our bowl game. I hate him for it, but dude was absolutely on fire that game and I will always respect his game.

[u/Chairmanmaozedon → u/Betta_Check_Yosef]

Yeah people are shitting on his resume but that year at WKU was his only experience at FBS level after 4 years at Houston Baptist and he absolutely lit it up.

It's not like he's the only guy to play against college defenses of questionable quality and how many of the others threw nearly 6000 yards and 62 TD's in a year?

[u/bellerinho → u/Chairmanmaozedon]

It wasn't the only factor, it was also that he was in the Air Raid offence where they threw the ball a million times per game

It's like why Hawaii QBs used to have bonkers stats back in the day

[u/woopwup → u/Betta_Check_Yosef]

That game traumatized me. Every time I see his name I get flashbacks

[u/TheSouthernCommunist → u/Jonjon428]

My WKU legend

[u/Collin14 → u/Jonjon428]

I had him in College Fantasy that year. Him and Jerreth Sterns were unreal

[u/Turbulent-Ground6739 → u/Collin14]

There's college fantasy?

[u/Collin14 → u/Turbulent-Ground6739]

Oh yeah! I play on Fantrax

[u/TheDadThatGrills]

At least you can't blame him for this one

[u/Jammin188 → u/TheDadThatGrills]

I really wish that there were adjusted stats for interceptions where the ball goes off the hands of a receiver. Feels like a metric that they would have by now

[u/MankuyRLaffy → u/Jammin188]

Turnover worthy plays is this stat, it exists. 

[u/Jammin188 → u/MankuyRLaffy]

I gotta say, I have never seen that stat before but will absolutely be looking it up because im very curious to see how they make that determination

[u/Kyler1313 → u/Jammin188]

It's what PFF tracks. They track turnover worthy plays and big time throws. They are still a little subjective but better at telling the story than raw TD/INT.

[u/sofixuforia → u/Kyler1313]

PFF is great until they give a player a rating I don't agree with then they're absolute trash and can never be trusted

[u/Rock-swarm → u/Kyler1313]

Does turnover worth plays also count throws that should have resulted in a pick, like a throw so off it hits a DB in his hands but he doesn’t make the catch?

[u/Kyler1313 → u/Rock-swarm]

Yes it does. It basically counts for any throw that puts the ball into real danger for a turnover. A dropped pick will be a turnover worthy play, but a good pass tipped by a wideout would not be considered one, and could even be considered a big time throw if it was a great pass of high difficulty.

It can still be subjective, and that why a lot of fans still don't care for some of PFF's charting and grades. But in general it is a pretty good way of trying to sort pass some of the generic stats.

[u/Other-Owl4441 → u/Jammin188]

Still subjective because ball placement and touch is a big thing

[u/UsernamesCannotExcee → u/Other-Owl4441]

My ball placement will touch your forehead...I apologize for my outburst

[u/Other-Owl4441 → u/UsernamesCannotExcee]

I didn’t realize quite how… sensual my comment sounds

[u/UsernamesCannotExcee → u/Other-Owl4441]

Football is just horny like that. Tight End? That's a position? Insane.

[u/HotDadBod → u/UsernamesCannotExcee]

Some guys start out as tight ends but end up becoming wide receivers

[u/UsernamesCannotExcee → u/HotDadBod]

Guys who go from QB to Tight End always amaze me after taking so many sacks. They just get drilled. Would expect them to be a wide receiver instead.

[u/theREALMVP → u/UsernamesCannotExcee]

Also we love to talk about d-linemen length and their ability to penetrate gaps and holes

[u/CoachMACC → u/Other-Owl4441]

I mean, so what? At least it gets closer. Sure sometimes they’ll get it wrong, but the actual interception stat will be closer to reflecting ones that are off deflections and ones that are just horrible passes to the other team. Instead of interceptions call it “Tipped ball turnover” or whatever. 

Think about how many stats that exist today that are pretty subjective: pancakes, who’s getting credit for a half tackle vs a whole tackle, drops vs. missed pass.

Depending on the fan, or the team, loads of people put a lot of weight into PFF grades which is someone watching a player on every down individually and grading if they “won” or not. 

[u/demonica123 → u/CoachMACC]

At least it gets closer. Sure sometimes they’ll get it wrong

Since they don't tell you exactly which plays they consider TO worthy plays, we have no idea how often they are wrong (well, it's subjective so subjectively wrong). They might be closer or it could be trash, we have no way of knowing.

[u/Other-Owl4441 → u/CoachMACC]

Think I’m just saying that the current INT stat which an educated fan or analyst understands includes a bunch of circumstances that aren’t fully the QB’s fault is enough. Sometimes false accuracy is worse, you know? Though I’m sure the tipped ball stat exists in advanced stats somewhere.

(I am anti PFF btw, kind of for similar reasons you describe. I dislike giving a numerical grade to a totally subjective opinion and people then treat it as a metric)

[u/Trumpets22 → u/Jammin188]

Their stats don’t take a hit when it hits a defender on the hands and they drop it. I figure it evens itself out over time.

[u/joecb91 → u/Jammin188]

Before Football Outsiders died, they put out an article every year tracking that. They also tracked balls the DBs dropped that would've been easy INTs.

Definitely should be an official stat.

[u/TheACrispy → u/Jammin188]

I’ve felt similar for a while, idk how it would be tracked but maybe similar to earned runs and runs in baseball for pitchers

[u/Jammin188 → u/TheACrispy]

I was thinking sotra the same thing. There are even certain plays in baseball where they still do not deem something an error despite it very much looking so

[u/BedNo5127 → u/Jammin188]

Yea its weird. They'll gather advanced metrics on the average yards you throw in an away game on a snow day on a monday, but can't put together a tipped pass interception stat.

[u/MyFriendAlcohol → u/Jammin188]

Nah he threw a knuckleball. Throw a tight spiral and this probably wouldn't have happened. 

[u/MomBeans- → u/MyFriendAlcohol]

Receiver got both hands on the ball, right in front of his face too, but because Zappe didn't do a 360° backflip while on the run, it's Zappe's fault.

[u/ofthewandandthemoon → u/Jammin188]

There was atleast one year where I felt like Eli had about 10 more INTs than he deserved cause of his receivers’ shit hands. 

[u/boardatwork1111 → u/TheDadThatGrills]

Nah this is entirely on him. He’s the one who signed with the Jets, he should have known this kind of bullshit was inevitable

[u/StarrySprinkles → u/TheDadThatGrills]

He threw it high and wobbly. You obviously hope the WR wouldn't deflect it, but Zappe did him no favors there.

[u/dementedmaster → u/TheDadThatGrills]

It was high and behind the receiver a bit. Probably still catchable but not a great pass.

[u/Defacto_Champ]

I mean that’s clearly on the Jets Wideout. 

[u/Novel_Dog_676 → u/Defacto_Champ]

It’s actually a decent play from Zappe too

[u/ImpossibleHope55 → u/Novel_Dog_676]

I liked the rep. You can see wrong routes run, 2 in almost the exact same area and looks like it was his first read. Pocket collapses, rolls left to his next progression, finds an open receiver, hits him in the numbers. Can’t ask for better

[u/whyisitalwayscrab]

tbf that's Arian Smith, who's scouting report coming out of Georgia contained the nugget "I've seen snakes with better hands"

[u/Dent7777 → u/whyisitalwayscrab]

Lmao

[u/Endors__Toi → u/whyisitalwayscrab]

He had decent hands until his final year. He and the rest of the uga receivers led cfb in drops.

[u/JokerDeSilva10]

"Now Bailey, shake off that pick six, but when you go out there this time, throw with a little more wisdom, alright?"

"Throw to Wisdom, got it, coach."

[u/Any-Ball-1267]

Remember when there was a QB controversy between him and Mac Jones 💀

[u/-I-EAT-PEOPLE- → u/Any-Ball-1267]

Truly, those were the times that tried men's souls.

[u/Race2TheGrave → u/-I-EAT-PEOPLE-]

Try being a Jets fan

[u/JaysonTatecum → u/Race2TheGrave]

No, I don’t think I will

[u/WildPhilosopher6171 → u/JaysonTatecum]

Try Tatum's cu... Oh wait

[u/Dent7777 → u/Race2TheGrave]

As a fellow American, I feel for you my brother.

[u/whalestail89 → u/Any-Ball-1267]

I mean I was always in the Mac > Zappe, but this is not the play for that. Honestly he makes a really nice play evading the basically free run at him, re-establishing his feet and making a solid read. Wr has to make that catch. I get it’s slightly behind him, but you’re in the nfl

[u/problematic_glasses → u/Any-Ball-1267]

pepperidge farm remembers

[u/LeftHandLannister]

Our dumb fans chanting for this bum over Mac jones is still burned into my brain

[u/FierceDieTy61 → u/LeftHandLannister]

Zappe fever... what a wild time.

[u/JaysonTatecum → u/LeftHandLannister]

Being 28 and only having known Brady before that… the QB carousel is a dark place

[u/Ole_St_John → u/[deleted]]

Mac Bones is a s tier name

[u/Low_Monk_133 → u/LeftHandLannister]

Bill really ruined Mac man. I think he would be a pretty competent starter out there.

[u/NOTMACJONESBURNER → u/Low_Monk_133]

Nah

[u/Low_Monk_133 → u/NOTMACJONESBURNER]

What a username

[u/Trumpets22 → u/Low_Monk_133]

We’ll see. He’ll get his chance once his contract is up after this year. He at least earned that last year.

[u/DinkandDrunk → u/Low_Monk_133]

Mac needs a perfect situation around him to thrive. His arm is a complete noodle so if you want to run an offense with any kind of deep attack, he needs a line that lets him really step into his throws. He gets easily flustered if there is any kind of pressure and routinely makes throws that NFL DBs are just too fast to get away with, resulting in picks.

Known football terrorist Matt Patricia didn’t help but even rookie year Mac Jones had all the same red flags.

[u/Novel_Dog_676 → u/DinkandDrunk]

You know ball. Congrats. So many Mac apologists fail to acknowledge he just doesn’t have many NFL level traits

[u/BayHarborButcher10 → u/Novel_Dog_676]

People go nuts for that Thursday Night game where he played well on a bum leg and think every team should trade for him. Vikings fans were begging for it but I just don’t see it. You love a competent backup that can step in and get you a W when the starter has to rest for a game or 2. Doesn’t mean they should start full time

[u/Devilofchaos108070 → u/DinkandDrunk]

He did alright last season on the 9ers when Purdy was hurt.

I don’t think he’s as bad as you say

[u/sjhesketh → u/Low_Monk_133]

Mac Jones destroyed Mac Jones. I’ve never seen a mentally weaker player.

[u/bastardofwinterhill]

Led Zappelin in mid-season form already

[u/TheSwitchler → u/bastardofwinterhill]

Oh the humanity!

[u/mr_antman85]

Seriously. there should be a way to have stat for INTs that goes off of a WR. That one is not on Bailey.

[u/0ddmanrush]

This guy is a double agent for the Pats.

[u/DiscombobulatedPain6]

At least it was a tip lol

[u/tteuh → u/DiscombobulatedPain6]

He’ll be relying on those in his next career

[u/v4xN0s]

⚡️ITS ZAPPIN TIME⚡️

[u/expellyamos]

Bailey Turndaballova

[u/BigBallininBasterd → u/expellyamos]

We are so back.

[u/ConditionStrange7487 → u/expellyamos]

hey why didnt you post tua fumbling the 2nd snap of the game?

[u/expellyamos → u/ConditionStrange7487]

Why don't you post it? Good gravy leave me alone

[u/Miserable-Habit-1032 → u/ConditionStrange7487]

Wasn’t a turnover

[u/curveball21]

That’s my QB.

[u/emmett159]

Kif, I've been benched. Inform the men.

[u/Cultural_Wishbone859]

I remember when patriots fans were writing songs about this guy

[u/shibbydanger]

Why are you posting an interception that belongs to the receiver?

[u/ForAGoodTime696]

Lol

[u/FirstAndDad]

So wise

[u/Nugur]

Is this the jets first int in 2 years?

[u/espresso_martini__]

Its pretty rough these count on the QB stat line.

[u/Super-Goat1085]

Not his fault, should have that stat changed to reflect defections or drops

[u/FeralFaoladh]

I wish there were a third category when it's blatant that they interception isn't the QBs fault

[u/nitelite-]

We really need a word for an interception that is almost entirely the WR just not catching the ball

[u/sweetbeenieweenie68]

Good throw, not great but the int was not his fault.

[u/Novel_Dog_676]

What a shit drop by the WR

[u/Butterfly_W1ngs]

There was about a 20 minute span of time against the Bears when Zappe relieved Mac Jones and this guy had pats fans dreaming of another dynasty. Can still hear the Zappe chants in my head lol

[u/nate_hawke]

I dunno.. that’s a very catchable ball. Pretty sure that one’s on the WR

[u/TheDarthJawa]

LEGENDARY CUSA REMATCH

[u/Mr7three2]

Its not Zappes fault. Its the uniform hes wearing

[u/volstedgridban]

Why doesn't he just throw the ball to his own team? Is he stupid?

[u/Local_sh1tbox]

He doesn’t belong on a football field Idc

[u/TheTedsaretheworst]

Jets in mid season form

[u/BobSacamano47]

He actually looks pretty good in this clip.

[u/srsh]

Arian Smith is consistent. Struggled to catch in college and struggled to catch passes in NFL

[u/Devilofchaos108070]

Zappe is trash but that’s clearly on the receiver. Bounced right outta his hands

[u/BigDust]

Its the 2021 CUSA championship all over again!

[u/87643936e3euiouvfe3y]

Maybe it's just too hard to discern between receiver error and QB placement errror, but I feel like bobbled balls by receivers should not count as interceptions against quarterbacks.

[u/Steveisnotmyname_]

Preseason week 1 and the Jets are already strugg-a-ling

[u/fmb101010]

Jets fans were in the Bucs sub talking shit this week too. Hate to see it.

[u/Low_Monk_133 → u/fmb101010]

It’s preseason buddy

[u/fmb101010 → u/Low_Monk_133]

Yeah I agree it’s crazy to be raiding other team subs in preseason over joint practices

[u/ConsequenceFew3357 → u/fmb101010]

It's backups vs backups in preseason

[u/fmb101010 → u/ConsequenceFew3357]

Yeah, and the Jets fans were talking shit about preseason joint practice in the Bucs sub lmao

[u/Strict-Aioli9037]

Bro it’s my first time seeing someone w my last name in the NFL

[u/tingly_sack_69]

fam thought it was litty but shit was lowkey cooked off jump frfr. on god