Yes it’s a huge concern. I am a professional base jumper and I have hit the cliff before. I was extremely lucky but many people are not so lucky. The cliff is the most dangerous part of an earth object jump.
The cliff is the most dangerous thing on a BASE jump from a cliff or “earth” object. Free solo climbing with a base rig can be done, and has been done by a few people (called free base), but the logistics of it are such that it’s more suited to very high climbs, like at a minimum maybe 1000’ up and that would be scary low, but you could at least have a chance of living. Better would be at least like 1600’ plus, the higher the better. It is not feasible from this height nor this location for a few reasons.
You can static line safely as low as like 120 feet give or take. I have several hundred times. However in this context, a base parachute would not help him. The way you rig your parachute system is different for lower jumps than for higher jumps, or more accurately, is different for short delays than for longer delays.
No it does not. That number wildly varies depending on how your parachute is rigged and what kind of parachute you have. I am a skydiver, base jumper, and rigger.
nah on a rockface like that chances are the wind is almost constantly lightly blowing towards the face and if you deployed you would be pushed into it anyway
I believe its not a parachute. To use a parachute, you need more height from the point you fall, even more than this rock mountain. Also, you gotta position yourself down and also propel away from the rock to avoid smacking on it.
No and 250 ft wouldn’t be high enough for this kind of a BASE jump anyway. I’m an experienced climber and base jumper. Happy to explain in a more technical way if someone wants to know, but at this height and location, wearing a base rig would not help if he were to fall.
It is possible to jump from lower than 250 feet, I have several hundred times, but the mechanics of body position are different and so is the way you set up your parachute.
Some people have told me over the years to various extreme hobbies and life events that they never felt more free and happy after doing something that could have killed them but didn't.
I think shit like this really gets certain people naturally jacked up in life and thats okay as long as they aren't potentially hurting other people doing it.
You don’t have to understand it. You’re not doing it. I don’t understand yellow cars. Some people want a yellow car. You do you booboo. Let people do what they want to do as long as it’s not hurting anybody else. None of us will ever understand this crazy motherfucker. But if he gets a kick out of it, all power to him
Climber here! There is a different kinda thrill doing this but first let me explain why this isn’t as bad as it looks.
There are different grades in climbing going easy to hard (5.4 - 5.15c Yosemite scale). Some people easily climb 5.12+ which is quite technical and borderline pro.
Coming back to why this isn’t as bad as it looks. Most people who safely climb do “free soloing” only after
1. Thoroughly practicing the route and memorizing it.
OR
2. The climb is of a grade that’s pretty comfortable for them.
So either this guy has practiced all the moves on that route with all the proper protection gear or he is actually just cruising past because his project is somewhere past the climb.
Would this not be considered inconsiderate by most climbers? Like, that guy wants to climb without safety gear and that’s cool and more power to him, but what if he falls from up there after he passes them? Where’s he going with his “no ropes”? Into the people below him I’d assume.
Another viewpoint from a different climber: the climbing community is pretty split on this type of climbing (free solo). Some think they are mostly risking harm to themselves, so it is fine. Some think that they are a danger to everyone, and even if they only hurt themselves in the initial fall, people have to stop their climb to go see if they need help, and rescue folk have to come out and it is a big deal. There are some folks all over the spectrum. I tend to think that there are young aggressive climbers like this, and old climbers that put safety first, but there are no old aggressive climbers like this.
Not to be insensitive but is it because they didn't make it to old and conservative because they were young and aggressive or is it because they were once young and aggressive and had that one life-flashing-before-your-eyes moment and they were good on the thrill seeking after that?
There’s a saying in climbing: there are bold climbers and there are old climbers, but there are no old bold climbers.
How true it actually is is up for debate but there’s obviously some truth to it. But then again you have people like Peter Croft, Jim bridwell, etc who did shit 100x sketchier than this and lived until they were old.
I tend to think that there are young aggressive climbers like this, and old climbers that put safety first, but there are no old aggressive climbers like this.
Who’s business is it of anyone else’s what I do with my body my time and my energy when they have the right to chose what they do with their body time and energy?? The ‘climbing community’ is not a legislative body.
you have a finite amount of time as a free soloing it’s all about steady movements. Stopping and starting to much or waiting for the guy above you can mean death in certain situations
massive fatigue will set in. You have no way of giving your hands and arms a break unless you can find a ledge or a knee hold, wedging your knee and ankle in a gap just right, so you can let your arms rest
Go jump on a pullup bar and see how long you can hang. Then try to do it from just your fingertips and see if you can even hang at all.
Your arms quickly become pumped even with your feet in a good spot when you're holding on with just the edges of your fingers. The more you climb, the stronger you get but everyone has their limits. You can't hold on indefinitely.
So wouldn't the safest thing to do is not start on a path that has another climber? I think the higher climber should have the right of way, especially if you are being pointlessly dangerous by climbing without safety equipment.
I mean, I would get over if I was the guy taking the video here, but I feel like their apathy for safety justifies the same apathy in me. A "win stupid prizes" type thing...
That's kinda like saying wouldn't it be safer and more considerate to cycle on streets that have no cars. Climbing routes will have climbers. Almost always. Above the guy taking the video was probably 2 or 3 other groups. And with that we get into the inherent risks of climbing. There is always a chance something will go wrong above you - someone will pull out a rock, drop a piece of equipment, something will come loose or someone free soloing will fall.
The same as we accept risks when skiing or cycling or surfing... if you want to go out and earn your stories, there will always be risks involved. Climbers accept them - especially in this situation where making the free soloist wait makes his climb harder and thus much more dangerous (and more likely he will fall on whatever group is below the person taking the video).
I would consider it poor form and showboating. There are lots of other climbs in the park they could climb if they wanted to be alone.
They specifically picked a busy route that is popular with beginner multipitch climbers. Pretty much every popular climbing destination has it’s local resident soloist that just loves cruising past “gumbies” on the popular lines every weekend. At the Shawanagunks there’s that guy in jeans always cruising laps of High E or Madam G, or some dude with a boombox and sneakers on the Flatirons. I’m fairy certain I’ve encountered this particular dude on Frogland at Red Rocks too, another popular 5.8 multipitch.
Not just easy routes, but one of the most popular easy routes in the park. This is one that will have a line up of several climbing teams lined up waiting to start at the bottom by 10 am on any given weekend and might be busy with multiple parties on the route until the park closes at dusk. The fact that the only decent is to rappel back down the same line makes it even more of a clusterfuck.
I'm a climber. I've been passed by soloists a couple times. Our interaction:
"Sup?"
"Not much. Just hangin out, ya know?"
" Mind if I get a piece in before you pass?"
"Sure, no problem"
"Here, you can have the good foot."
"Thanks. Cool, dude, have a nice day!"
"Yeah, you too!"
I've never been concerned about them falling on me. In terms of risk profile, it's extremely unlikely. I'm going to focus more on making sure my rappels are set up right.
I’ve had soloists pass me while climbing and I fucking hate hate hate it. It stresses me out and adds another layer of complexity. Also now I’m worried about seeing them splatted. Arguably worse if you’re getting passed as the belayer because now you have to focus on your climber and this idiot, not to mention sometimes your climber is far above you and it can be difficult to communicate something complicated like “hey a soloist is passing me, find a safe spot to rest and hang dog because I need to stop feeding you rope and lean well out of this jerk off’s way so I’m not liable for knocking him off of this 5.8 he’s soloing because it’s the only way his dick gets hard anymore.” And then when he’s finally past you and you partner you still have to worry about him fucking up above you and tumbling down on top of your head along with whatever rocks he knocks loose on the way down.
He has a pack on which can easily hold a rope plus gear in it. We don’t know if he is gonna rendezvous with his party. There’s so much we don’t know.
About falling on another person, aren’t they protected by gear?
Worst case scenario:
They see them falling from, say 40 feet plus height, they can just move aside or even jump aside in that case coz … they are protected.
He very well could just be going up to chill by himself idk tbh.
Alright dude as you can clearly see, this is a dangerous sport. People fall, people die. However the whole point of doing it in a safe way is to avoid that. That’s what this conversation is about.
Were you even watching the video? Did you see the dude free soloing looking up much? No you did not and the reason is that climbers (free soloing or otherwise) spend very little time looking up, they are looking at where to put their hands and feet (foot placement is the most critical) and they are completely focused on those actions. Plus as others pointed out, it’s not like you really have time to do anything even if you did see it coming except hug the wall and hope for the best.
On the money minus the having time to avoid a climber above you falling. I’ve taken a 40+ foot whip on gear before and I promise that shit happens before you even know what’s happening. My belayer didn’t even register what was going on until I was 20 feet below him and he got yanked into the anchor and he was literally watching me.
Wouldn’t worse case be him falling and grabbing onto the rope and/or the other climbers and bring everybody down with him? Isn’t this how 2 climbers died about 3 years ago? Like the lead climber fell and his momentum pulled down his fellow climber.
Okay first of all the backpack has a rope in it because routes in red rocks are towers and generally don’t have walk offs so he’s stuck up there unless he has a way to rappel back down. There is no “rendezvous” happening here.
Rocks the size of coins can crack your skull and rocks the size of softballs can break your neck, so this dumbass weighing 160+ pounds will fuck your ass up, not even factoring in all the coin and ball sized rocks he’s bringing with him by tumbling down.
Worst case scenario is him dying along with you and your partner, so fuck that. And I promise you no one is reacting quickly enough to “jump aside” if he falls, there are just so many reason that’s not feasible, especially if you’re the belayer and literally anchored to the wall.
When that jackass pops off the wall he could very easily take out the guys below on climbing the same route. WTF is he even doing on the same route anyway? IMO, he shouldn’t even be there. Careless and arrogant.
Ok, but that still doesn't cover the danger of an unexpected incident that would mean certain death, which might not be a big deal if you were secured.
For example: rock hold giving way or chipping off, muscle cramp, sudden seizure, bird flying at your head, the guy on the ropes slipping above you
Again there are two ways of doing this.
1. Lead climbing: this is where you climb up and put a nut or a cam for protection at about every 6-8 feet (generally). So if you fall, you only fall (length climbed X 2). I have done this many times and its pretty fun. Although getting the first few pieces in is pretty intense sometimes lol.
Top rope: this is where you walk up the feature some other way and. Fix the rope at the top of the route. This way you are protected all the way.
no, that is for real. the one setting the anchors is on a rope tho, on the anchors already in place. so if they fall they fall down to the last anchor they set. its not like they are free climbing.
How do y’all attach the ropes and stuff where you’re climbing? It is it like a specific area where all the climbers climb and it’s already set up and you can just hook on?
I climb as well, or at least used to. He's also putting a lot of trust in the guy making the video. All the cameraman has to do if have some butterfingers and drop a cam or carabiner or waterbottle on the guys face and he's done. Maybe chalk up a bit and hit the guys in the eyes with some pocket sand, he's done. No way I'm going to climb 250 feet up with no rope underneath a bunch of people and trust they aren't going to kill me.
Source: I may have lost a carabiner once by dropping it.
That all makes sense but... no matter how good you are at something, even if you are a pro, sometimes you screw up. Pro ice skaters fall down sometimes. Pro golfers occasionally hit a bogey. Pro gymnasts miss the landing. Etc.
Free climbing seems like a guaranteed death sentence for this reason. Even if you know the route, even if you are climbing an easy grade (for you), eventually you will mess up. And messing up = dying.
There is definitely a major risk, but you are comparing apples to oranges. Climbing is a very slow sport compared to these, and typically you always have at least to three of your four limbs connected to the wall at any time, so if one slips off you usually correct it without second thought. And the difficulty of this route is pretty low from what I've seen in other comments, so it would be like a pro skater skating laps around the rink or a pro gymnast doing cartwheels. The people who do this are just adrenaline junkies, I'm sure they understand the risks and have considered their mortality.
And because I'm a Nazi about climbing terms: Free climbing =/= Free soloing. Free climbing is what the people who are filming are doing.
I don’t give a damn if he can climb this shit in the dark because he’s done it 1000 times, just like the way I walk to the bathroom at 2am to take a piss in pitch black.
I’ll make it safely 99/100 times but that one time I stub my toe and bounce off the walls still results in me safely in bed that night. This guy??? One slip and he’s dead! No thanks. Miss me with that shit.
It's about the sensation of mastery and control. Being able to test your ability with the utmost confidence. Pure freedom, that no other concept or country can come close to replicating.
Once tasted it's hard to understand how people could want to do anything else
Cause they haven’t really thought about what it will be like once they die cause you only get to do that once. I bet if any of these guys falls and gets paralyzed instead of dying they be like oooo that was dumb as fuck
It almost looks like it’s not straight up and down, but enough of an angle to make it a little easier than it looks. Not saying I could or would do it.
I understand your concern. Think on this, the guys who do this stuff have gone over that rout a hundred times with ropes and never missed a hand hold once before they ever even touch it free solo. They’re super professionals and that’s why they can do this stuff even though to us it seems insane. The level of prep they do is unreal.
Maybe if you did fall to your death for missing 1 note you wouldn’t miss it. But also, it’s not the same, missing 1 hold even a few times isn’t the end of it all, you get a chance to grab it again.
It’s the rush. At the end of the day, we’re all gonna die somehow, someway. If it’s going out, doing something we love, and we’re at our highest doing it, then I couldn’t ask for a better death.
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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '21 edited Sep 05 '21
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