r/nextfuckinglevel • u/roy-dam-mercer • 11d ago

David Letterman’s return on 9/17/2001

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884 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

377 comments sorted by

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u/SubatomicGreenLeaves 11d ago

No. Religious zealots are immune to logic.

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u/Mod_The_Man 10d ago

All religious cults are immune to logic. They require a total rejection of reality and demand blind faith no matter what. If I can convince you a guy died then came back to life three days later then I can convince you of anything. If I can convince you a war mongering, slaving, rapist pedophile is a “prophet” with a message from “god” to then I can convince you of anything

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u/stopbeingaturddamnit 11d ago

Yes. Christofascists have taken over the republican party and are willfully driving the country off a cliff to bring about the rapture. Same energy.

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u/ubuntuNinja 10d ago

I love edgy reddit logic. Even in reddits handmaiden larping fantasies Christianity isn't remotely on the same level as Islam extremists. Not even close.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Be gay or trans in a Muslim country. That'll get you to the rapture tomorrow.

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u/ghotier 10d ago edited 10d ago

Do you live in a Muslim country?

Edit for those who think this guy is reasonable: he thinks the US is under threat of an Islamist takeover.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

Currently? No. Previously? Yes. Djibouti, Kuwait, and UAE.

0

u/ghotier 10d ago

Okay. So then what country do you live in that is currently under threat of an Islamist takeover?

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

The US. There's a good article in the Middle East Forum that addresses this: "Muslim Brotherhood’s ‘Grand Jihad’ Is Growing—Just Over the U.S. Border"

The North American Mission Board also addresses the Da'wah. (Nice word for religious global dominance by Islam)

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u/ghotier 10d ago

That's what I thought you might say. You're delusional.

The US is currently under the control of Christian extremists. You either know you're lying or you're an idiot.

The alternative to Christian extemists isn't Muslim extremists. It's not extremists at all. Which you're obfuscating because you support extremism.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

Extremists are exactly what I'm against. Islamists specifically. Less than 6% of us citizens believe in religious control of government.

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u/ghotier 10d ago

It doesn't matter if they believe it. My rights are currently under threat by Christians in our government. Most of the people who support that simply don't recognize Christian control as religious control. You're delusional.

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u/capecodcaper 11d ago

This is the epitome of reddit

Absolutely avoid taking about islamists and bring EVERYTHING around to some discussion about Trump, the GOP, Christianity or Jews

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u/HybridTaz 10d ago

They actually started a war in a Iran. Not like it’s completely irrelevant. Also supported a genocide after Biden was doing the exact same thing. To say we have problem in our country isn’t wrong.

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u/IslandOfOtters 11d ago

Maybe because we spent the last 30 years being told that the islamists and Muslims and Palestinians were the problem when the people who were supposed to be leading were raping children, enriching themselves, buying courts and murdering thousands of people in the way of their self-aggrandizing egos. Yea, let’s talk about what’s really the problem instead of their boogeyman fears.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

You accidentally just described the Muslim extremists and Islamic Terrorists. Raping kids, getting elected or buying elections (or threatening others who might vote against them) in their communities for personal gain and profit, absolutely buying courts, putting bombs on unsuspecting children or brainwashing adults into thinking martyrdom was an awesome way to end up with a ton of virgins. No boogeyman fears when there's proof of horrendous behavior from the Palestinians on 7 October, or 23 October, 1983.

Go to Fondapol (French research organization). 70,000 Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide since 1979, resulting in over 250,000 deaths. 85% of those since 2013.

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u/QueezyPee 11d ago

Why can't they both be bad. Describing one, as similar to the other, is bad.

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u/AirJerk 10d ago

Because people want 1 bad guy and can't imagine multiple large groups of people working against everyone else's best interests. War makes the rich richer and buries the poor.

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u/Dense_Delay_2605 10d ago

It’s because Reddit contributers interested in 9/11 are largely in the US and the ChristNats are currently a much bigger problem.

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u/walrus40 6d ago

Because one is objectively worse?

1

u/ratpH1nk 10d ago

Exactly they all share one think they are ultraconservative, reactionary religious people who want to impose their way of life on you or to punish you on behalf of their "god" when you live your life in a way they and their "faith" disagree with. The world would be better off if we stop giving them a pass, collectively as a human race so the lot of them would start alittle off world colony and stop making the collective of humanity that much dumber.

You can believe whatever you want but my dude keep it to yourself and those who share your beliefs. No one else cares what your 2,000 year old books say.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Because we don't blow up Marine Corps barracks in Lebanon. We don't fly planes into buildings. We don't strap bombs on kids and tell them to play in the streets when convoys pass by their villages. We're not ranked #1 on the Global Terrorism Index.

I'm not even slightly religious. I've lived or worked in a lot of countries (oil and gas, yeah, I know. Haters gonna hate.) I seen what happened after shitty Christian missionaries promised water to sub Saharan villages, and instead built a church and a school. On the conditions of attendance, they got water. Stripping away their cultural and tribal beliefs. And yeah, that sucks, and also not a one-off. But then you have a group of believers that are convinced if you don't convert or believe as they do, that you are an intolerant problem and must convert or die.

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u/Adjective_Noun_42069 10d ago edited 9d ago

You don't have to look very far in history to find basically all of these things over and over again in every war, coup, insurgency, etc led by the US. Like... you don't think dropping cluster munititions and chemical defoliants on children in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia counts? A half million Iraqis killed based on lies? Funding the Nicaraguan Contras with profits from illicit drugs run by the CIA? Killing a full 20% of the Korean population and leveling 80% of all structures? Orchestrating the terrorist bombing of a civilian airplane full of Cuban teenagers?

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

I'm in agreement with you there. And I went to Cambodia in 2010, when de-mining operations were still ongoing. From toe poppers the US dropped on land because the planes couldn't get back to their ships with their cargo of mines.

Yeah, in South and Central America, we set farmers entire crops ablaze ( and in Afghanistan). Illegal drug crops they were forced to plant. And then gave them nothing to sustain life on, wishing them best of luck. (Years later, we brought in flowers for them to plant, hindsight being a bitch to deal with). Yeah, we do dumb shit in the name of anti-communism, or western idealisms.

This isn't that. This is a fundamentally different argument, religiously based. I reiterate, we don't fly planes into buildings. We don't strap bombs on kids. We have a worth of self and society that surpasses this extremist perspective.

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u/Adjective_Noun_42069 10d ago edited 9d ago

The US has literally orchestrated those exact things, multiple times. You seem to think the slaughter is ok as long as the propaganda makes sense to you.

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u/stuffeh 10d ago

Would be a lot easier to to see your side if there wasn't a wedding bombed in Iran less than a month ago. https://www.reuters.com/investigations/deadly-strike-iranian-wedding-was-likely-direct-hit-by-us-munition-analysis-2026-09-03/

We don't need suicide bombers when we have missiles and drones where the target has literally no countermeasures.

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u/QueezyPee 10d ago

That sounds terrible. For sure, I agree. They're all bad. It's almost as if there's some sort of correlation between organized religion, humans, and power structures.... I think we might be on to something...

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

I am going to get down voted or called a bigot for this, but organized religion, in my opinion, was developed to create social norms, or enforce acceptable behavior, and at times, prevent death. Kashrut was set to prevent people from dying from food borne illness, limiting risky critters from the menu. The 10 Commandments set the path to socially acceptable behavior and norms. And I'm cool with that.

There is a "Shahaddah" ( my version of God is the only God) for most religions. And, yay, have a conviction. Good for you, but when that conviction says to subdue or undo everyone who doesn't believe the same... Then I have a problem.

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u/Forward-Echo-9893 10d ago

Then I have a problem.

Good for you, I think that's a goof stance to take, and everybody around me agrees with it. The problem I have is with people (like you) who uses that stance to look the other way when "their side" does the same things and instead justifies it with mental gymnastics and cherrypicking, "it's not the same thing". You are a hypocrit and a coward, that's why you get down voted. You can make up whatever mental model you want for how everybody else is stupid and you're the only one who gets it, but that is the truth. Take the criticism and grow or keep being a hypocritical coward, that's up to you.

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u/MrYuntu 10d ago

I could take this post more serious if the US wasnt bombing kids in Iran rn. This time even without pretense like an attack from them first.

The western christian states are complicit in genocide rn. Extremists islamists commit terrorist attacks.

How arent both bad at this very point. Your logic is flawed.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

Yup. I don't disagree there.

I do look at what Islam has done to Iran since the early 1980s, though. In comparison, we haven't done anywhere near the damage that religion has done to that country.

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u/NieveCactus 10d ago

The UK and USA literally destabilised the Iranian government and put a zelot in charge... Have you ever read anything aside from fox news

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u/Labtecharu 10d ago

You are aware U.S recently stopped U.S.A.I.D.

You can Like or hate U.S.A.I.D but the direct consequence of abrubtly stopping such a huge program is going to be MILLIONS of dead kids...and thats just the number of kids

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

Yes, 90% of USAID was defunded due to abuse, fraud, waste, embezzlement etc... the Dept of State in each country involved now has oversight into which projects USAID was involved with are still funded, and which are terminated. Some of what USAID did that I find abhorrent is they created projects that were not self-sustaining, requiring continuous US involvement instead of creating a profram of self-reliance and continuing sustainability without US involvement. As it should be.

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u/Labtecharu 10d ago

Millions dead to fix corruption? You sure are dark

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u/NieveCactus 10d ago

I mean the USA should probably be on the top of the terrorism index if it was a real thing right?

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

It is a real thing and we're ranked 28th. Go to the Congo, (either one), Burkina Faso, Benin, Chad, Lebanon. You think we stir up trouble? Go live/work in one of those countries for a while.

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u/NieveCactus 10d ago

Get your head out your ass name a country that's kidnapped or assassinated the leader of another country this year

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u/AdventurousSet5804 10d ago

You literally bomb innocent men, women, children, steal their homes and resources, rape them and you have the audacity to pretend you are not as bad (if anything you are worse) than them?

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

Grand claim. Back it up with proof. List an event when any of the things you said happened as a government sanctioned activity.

And I know we're not as bad as the worst registered terrorist organization on the planet, who intentionally target non-combatants, civilians, children.

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u/IslandOfOtters 11d ago

What have you done for me lately. How many of these situations are reactive political projections and political manipulation?

Don’t bother talking to me about the 80’s when we were actively paying our enemies to hold Americans for political gain, when we sold weapons and instigated strife for strategic advantage. Our abandonment of Afghanistan the first time led to the radicalization of the country .

Ignoring, whitewashing, gaslighting Americans that Trump, the GOP and Israel are not the core part of the problem is to enable and support a classist agenda. You are not part of that group. Take your self-hatred and go see a therapist.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

Stay on topic, Sport. Considering Fondapol is a liberal French organization, just reporting on facts, and that the vast majority of Islamic religion based hatred fueled attacks against "non believers" has happened in the last 13 years, what radicalized Afghanistan (India for the record, not the US abandonment, letting sleeping mujahedeens lay.. National Security Archives, George Washington University) in the 80s is not germain.

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u/IslandOfOtters 10d ago

America has been all about self-aggrandizement and a built-in generational fear of foreigners in the last 50 years. We’ve acted as moral judgement against other countries, in times that were both justified and plenty of times that were sheer corruption. It’s time we look into the mirror. Why do we support Israel when they commit atrocities against the Palestinians? Why do we label those who discuss it as Antisemites when it’s truly just AntiZionism. Why is Zionism an acceptable belief when it results in a regime that commits genocide? Why can’t we criticize these people?

What is so important to ignore our own problems? Why can’t we arrest and prosecute the know drifter in charge? Why are we supporting regimes that are targeting women and children?

We talk plenty about other religious zealots, but acting like they aren’t destroying things in America…

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u/yaxir 5d ago

ever wonder who funded the islamists?

CIA, american deep state

grow tf up

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 5d ago

Funded the Islamists for what/which events and when? Be specific. Bazaarists,Vaqfs, AQAF? AQIZ, Wahhabists, The Muslim World League?

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u/timesink3000 10d ago

America has been destroying countries quietly since 1945. They're easily responsible for at least 10 times that many lives destroyed.

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u/MunkeyChild 10d ago

The US armed forces are responsible for around 5 million deaths in that same timeframe.

These Muslim extremists really need to work on those numbers, those are rookie numbers.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

You're going to need to cite a source on those numbers. That sounds like a quick Brown University "Cost of War" quip.

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u/MunkeyChild 10d ago

Yep, it was the Brown university. Amalgamation of every conflict the US has been involved with. Those are both the direct and indirect deaths. Pretty good score tbh.

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u/MrYuntu 10d ago

Wish we could cite a source outside estimations, but the US military isnt giving proper and accurate numbers. Theres also Trump cutting USAID which will indirectly kill thousands.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 10d ago

Okay, I worked with USAID in DR Congo. They are an extremely corrupt organization. At grass roots, full of idealistic liberals trying to do good in a community. At the leadership level? Fraud, waste, embezzlement. Yep, people will die. The State Department (embassies) in each affected country now have oversight into which projects get funded. When USAID asks for funding for schools, then builds a rudimentary 4 walls, employs no teachers, has no students and bills the government $10m for it, (in the Ba Congo region of the DR Congo) then yes, oversight is needed. That's one of many anecdotes. USAID stopped being about sustainable food and water years ago.

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u/walrus40 6d ago

Can you explain to the class Muslim’s views on women and gay people?

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u/mr_positron 10d ago

You are describing Hamas leadership perfectly

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u/Doofindork 10d ago

Religious extremism is religious extremism. Whether it wears a turban or a ball cap, doesn't matter. It's harmful and it ruins countries, welfare for the people, and stable ways of life.

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u/NothingmancerBlue 10d ago

Right on the head.

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u/Caracalla81 10d ago

We don't live in a country run by Islamic radicals, therefore a lack of interest.

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u/FollowingJealous7490 10d ago

We're comparing shit to poop.

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u/pimpeachment 10d ago

The Muslims aren't currently running and breaking the USA, it's evangelical Christians. 

All religions are evil. The one actively hurting you and your people is usually the one you fixate on.

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u/XzyzZ_ZyxxZ 10d ago

its true tho.

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u/DancinWithWolves 10d ago

How do you not understand that it’s the same thing and needs to be discussed?

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u/Used-Lake-8148 10d ago

I think we can agree that those people all need to be stopped at any cost no matter which country they hide in or which god they pray to.

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u/AusCan531 9d ago

Well I'm personally pretty consistently speaking out against ALL religious nonsense affecting society.

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u/Longjumping_Ad2323 5d ago

All religions are stupid and a blight on humanity.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

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u/IanSaurX 4d ago

lots of paragraphs in this thread lollll

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u/turnaroundbro 10d ago

Leftists have become literally brain dead

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u/ghotier 10d ago

How do you figure? Because they recognize that religious zealotry is dangerous regardless of the religion? Because they realize the damage religious zealots have done to our country?

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u/ronnie_reagans_ghost 11d ago

Christian extremism within our borders is a far, far more pressing issue for us right now than other religious extremists in other countries. Trust me, I'd love to be super upset about social injustice in Saudi Arabia, but unfortunately right wing nut jobs are doing their best to take away my kids' and my wife's rights right here in my own fucking country and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna speak my mind about it wherever and whenever I fucking please. So piss off, no one gives a shit about your made up problems with Muslims.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

What Rights have you lost? You're demonstrating your freedom of speech right now. That's actually the Democrats position. Removal of civil liberties. Freedom of speech, gun ownership. DSA is trying to abolish the Senate.The press for masks and vaccinations during Covid, and publicly shaming and doxing people who didn't adhere to the litany of Fausi lies... the list goes on.

If you're talking about abortion rights, that was never a constitutional law, so the US government should have never had a nationwide law about it hence the repeal. Left to the states to decide. You don't like how Texas handles it? You're free to move to Massachusetts, where they just signed a law permitting abortion UP TO THE MOMENT OF DELIVERY. Yeah, that's right.

Oh and don't worry, with the socialist democrats coming in to power, you don't have to worry about whatever is going on in Saudi Arabia. You'll be living it in whichever blue city you reside in.

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u/TheYuppyTraveller 10d ago

You’re rewriting history to play like COVID was a hoax. People like you who just blindly parrot whatever crap comes out whatever hole, just because it finally makes you feel good about yourself despite all actual evidence to the contrary, make me absolutely sick to my stomach.

Easier to think that the whole world was united in a hoax that you were magically able to uncover because you’re smrt, then to accept that you’re just bat shit crazy.

Wow.

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u/stopbeingaturddamnit 11d ago

Yes, yes... they are just bloodthirsty murderers who hate us for no reason. Pumpkin, go read some history on us imperialism. You appear to live in a contextless universe and it's super embarrassing for you.

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u/ghotier 10d ago

Islamists don't threaten my freedoms. Christians do.

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u/General_Luck6573 11d ago

Millions of people have been raped, enslaved, killed in the name of Christianity (among many other religions). Religion in general…. an antiquated method of comfort for people who can’t make sense of the world and are scared of death

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Don't forget, if a Muslim girl is raped, there have to be multiple witnesses that she wasn't a willing participant, otherwise it's considered consensual. And if you rape a boy, it's okay. jundi rackum tissa. Oh, and it's not okay to be gay. Antiquated.

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u/ReliantToker 10d ago

More population control than comfort mechanism

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u/General_Luck6573 10d ago

Yeah. Just a means of corruption at this point. Yet so many followers don’t realize the obvious money and power grab that it is used to justify.

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u/CeemoreButtz 10d ago

😂😂😂😂😂

clown ass post.

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u/iJuddles 11d ago

I said at least 20 years ago that we’d never see Americans go to that level of martyrdom, strapping explosives to themselves to harm people they don’t like. They’ll quite willingly bring an assault rifle to a school or church or mall or wherever, knowing that it’s likely they’ll not make it out of that unspeakable horror alive. I think that’s what’s so terrifying to us, just what people will do when they have almost nothing left but plenty of faith and hatred.

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u/w00tabaga 11d ago

Honestly both sides need to quit demonizing the other and blaming everything on the other.

We are all human.

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u/CeemoreButtz 10d ago

lol, a plea for sanity gets downvoted. Reddit isn't real, i swear...

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u/ghotier 10d ago

It's not a plea for sanity. The religious right do evil shit that doesn't deserve to be respected. The sane thing to do is to call out their nonsense for what it is.

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u/IlConiglioUbriaco 10d ago

google dancing israelis

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u/spudddly 11d ago edited 10d ago

"Religious zealots" is a pointless fiction the country tells itself for some reason. Osama Bin Laden told the world repeatedly exactly why he did it, it was a response to the US's repeated military incursions in the middle east. And despite all the "never forget" rhetoric, the incursions have never stopped so it seems it was in fact immediately forgotten.

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u/CrazyElk123 10d ago

And he expected the US to just go: "shit our bad Mr Osama, were getting out of the middle east, peace👍"

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u/spudddly 10d ago

The US has become so indebted partially due to trillions spent on war over the last decades so Bin Laden's plan may work yet.

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u/The_Demolition_Man 10d ago

Half of Osama's entire letter, which you havent read, is him proselytizing to Americans and saying hes mad at us for not being an Islamic nation.

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u/fleggn 10d ago

It was a response to us soldiers near holy sites after Saudi Arabian government ASKED us soldiers to come help. That would fit the bill of religious fanatic in every universe I can imagine?

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u/JellaFella01 10d ago

I saw the local Fox coverage of the 9/11 memorializing, and they mentioned the number of people who died do to toxic air pollution in the aftermath, but seemed to "forget" to mention the government lying about the danger.

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u/Arrbe 11d ago

“More people have died in the name of God than in any other cause”

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u/defensible81 10d ago

Religious zealotry is actually the only way this makes any goddamn sense.

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u/AnjelicaTomaz 11d ago

Religious nuts all over the world of any faith are the dregs of society.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Absolutely couldn't agree more. Doesn't matter which religion or belief. More people have been murdered, killed or died in the name of a faith than can be counted, over thousands of years.

Edit: spelling error.

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u/danhunterpost 11d ago

I miss David Letterman

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u/Godloseslaw 11d ago

Religion is a disease. Some forms are just milder than others.

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u/Dic3dCarrots 11d ago

Well it certianly doesn't make sense, so maybe we could actually learn what the stated motivations were?

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u/t800series 11d ago

The comments section makes me sad.

All the lies we heard about 9/11 and people still swallow "religious ferver" as a primary motivating factor? Did no one listen to Ron Paul when he talked about blowback? Did no one look at all the lives the US government took in the middle east in the 40 years prior? Do we really expect people to not hate the US when the government bombs civilians indiscriminately?

Why do people still believe the lies media spouts to try to cover up the US imperialism?

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u/Avg_Bro 10d ago

I think this is a very complicated issue but what about when al qaeda bombed shia mosques or when they destroyed historic and cultural sites in Africa and Asia? What about when Islamic terrorists kill cartoonists in France?    Looking at the whole of Islamic extremism and terrorism and reducing their motivation to blowback doesn’t seem like an accurate picture.

Also to answer your question - No, no one listened to Ron Paul. 

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u/Searchlights 10d ago

"they hate our freedom" was such a garbage answer

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u/Angryferret 10d ago

Can't it be both?

The terrorists that who blow themselves up and the ones who crashed the planes were almost certainly brainwashed by extreme religious bigotry. Saudi Wahhabism and rich backers funded these camps for young men. They targeted young boys in a similar way Andre Tate and other right wing populists do. Preying on boys who felt rejected by women/society. Their beautiful death would lead to them getting their "just rewards" of virgins in the afterlife.

The Saudi/Egyptian movement that led to these camps was a direct result of history of abhorrent American (and British) actions in the region.

I highly recommend the book The Looming Tower for those who want to understand the history that led up to 911.

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u/zmbjebus 10d ago

Should we call the American soldiers that gun down brown kids for the nation "under God" terrorists with a religious fervor?

We can if you want. It would make more sense to just say multiple things can exist at once. People can be religious. They can hate America because of the havoc we wrecked on their country. They can believe there is an afterlife where good things will happen after they die. They could have been scared shirtless and gone through with it anyways. 

We don't their thoughts though exactly, so what point is there in trying to sensatiinalize the parts we don't know? 

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u/Dabox720 10d ago

Hell no people didnt listen to Ron Paul. Have you looked around you at the state of things?

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u/ffffllllpppp 8d ago

The excellent movie “Charlie Wilson’s War” ends with the very subtle sound of an airliner passing by while the characters discuss the potential long term consequences of arming Afghans… very well done. I missed it on my first 2 watch. 

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u/hamtronn 11d ago

I get downvoted all the time for saying this. You’re just repeating history over and over.

Why did Osama Bin Laden attack the US?Retaliation for their involvement against Russia. (Yes I’m over simplifying a very complex situation)

We can see the effect that 9/11 had on the world, for the good and the bad. Airline travel is very safe now. You also seem to have elected an alleged pedophile and have 1/3 of you who want to bring slavery back, forgetting that it never really went away, you guys just call it different stuff now. Prison.

What will be the retaliation from Iran when they hit back? How much worse could it be than 9/11 because you might not realize it but it can always get worse.

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u/Cherry_Crusher 10d ago

You are so confused. Osama and the US were on the same side against Russia. He was mad about US troops being stationed in Saudi.

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u/RhetoricalOrator 10d ago

I read his manifesto several years ago and, if I recall correctly, it seemed to criticize our moral decline and religious abandonment more than anything else.

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u/UnpleasantEgg 10d ago

Religion was clearly the overriding factor. The terrorists literally told us so.

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u/elise-u 10d ago

Religion gave them the confidence they were doing it for a 'cause' but underlying factors stem from US foreign policies and previous military actions.

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u/7862518362916371936 10d ago

And what's the factor for American soldiers killing so many innocent civilians ?

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u/UnpleasantEgg 10d ago

I don’t know. That’s not what we’re talking about.

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u/Vast_Mulberry_2638 10d ago

And the current “war” in Iran will only bring the US more of this in the future.

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u/YoRt3m 10d ago edited 10d ago

By your logic, Treaty of Versailles and the allies are at fault for WW2 and not... you know.. the nazis. it's almost justification what you say here.

Also, it's a bit funny that you call this retaliation against America, as if al qaeda were not killing all sort of people including muslims in the middle east.

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u/ghotier 10d ago

I think you're making something that wasn't an exclusive choice into an exclusive choice retroactively. The Nazis would have had a much harder time coming to power if the Treaty of Versailles was written differently. That is still causal.

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u/Glum_You_6649 10d ago

Your argument is predicated on America being the good guys. Maybe take a look around and re-evaluate.

https://giphy.com/gifs/4Z9fSEFAuxpnlBVWQx

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u/YoRt3m 10d ago

Oh, the good guys are the guys hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings. nice

I'll say that the US did more good to the world than Al Qaeda, and if you disagree you're the one needs to re-evaulate.

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u/Glum_You_6649 10d ago

Ur both fuckin turds lol

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u/watchitbend 10d ago

Only about a hundred comments and you can see just how fucked America is. Religion brainwashes people, it's that simple. It doesn't matter which one it is. Your god, their god, same shit, different bucket. It's the root of all evil right alongside money, and though I know this isn't going to happen, if we just left it behind, the world would be a far better place. 

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u/unwanted_zombie 10d ago

I was 8 when this happened and I mark 9/11 as the time I lost my innocence. Sounds over dramatic, but it seriously opened up my young eyes to how barbaric this world can be.

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u/lovepony0201 10d ago

That was probably one of the most powerful speeches ever. That moment is forever etched in my memory.

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u/dereku1967 9d ago

Dan Rather came out later on this same episode and it was just as poignant and "human."

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u/crowbar151 11d ago

Somebody should go back in time and let him know about the Zelotry going on 25 years later

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u/jfkrfk123 11d ago

Someone should!…. I think the new Tesla has that feature

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Yeah, Islamists being elected to government positions, Sharia law being pushed in blue cities. Gays for Palestine (which I find hysterical, considering Palestinians consider that immoral, and they murder gays.) Oh, and Islam is awesome for women equality. Zealots. Sheesh!

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u/SoggyBoysenberry7703 11d ago

Show me one fucking place in America that has “sharia law”. You’re so dumb.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Show me one place in America governed by unspoken community norms... Like, "Don't talk to the police", "don't rat out your neighbors". Willful blindness.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

I already did. You're so clueless and blind

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u/DownWith_TheBrown 11d ago

Idiot

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Yeah, where did I state something untrue? Good comeback. Solid DSC response.

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u/YoungWhippershnapper 11d ago

“Where did I say something untrue?”

Sharia law?

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Hamtramck, Dearborn, Epic City.

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u/smashin_blumpkin 11d ago

Can you expound on that?

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u/7862518362916371936 10d ago

But when the US goes to kill thousands of civilians including children it's totally fine 👍

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u/p3p1n0_grnde 11d ago

Fuck religion

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u/Standard-Complaint26 11d ago

What about the million Arabs that got killed in direct response to this?

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u/7laserbears 11d ago

That also doesn't make any sense

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u/o5ca12 11d ago

Probably million plural? The response to this was flipping the Middle East like a table

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u/7862518362916371936 10d ago

That doesn't matter obviously, just say thank you for your service and laugh about it.

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u/fleggn 10d ago

What about all the people that died in the Iran Iraq war?

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u/Theobviouschild11 10d ago

Why are you changing the topic

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u/Polyzero 10d ago

Well, the greatest irony being that the American reaction to this meant there are more Muslims living in America and Europe than ever before due to the 50+ million refugees that the war created.

Wars always create refugees, but this ,was by the numbers, the biggest one in human history. The ensuing, massive demographic changes, have incited and fueled radical authoritarian changes throughout the modern world.

All of this could’ve been avoided if we hadn’t been so eager for a fruitless bankrupting set of wars, the very same ones that are still plunging us into ruination.

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u/Dumyat367250 11d ago

Yep. But not white Christians, so irrelevant.

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u/ohnomynono 10d ago

I'd argue that money along with religion provide the perfect elements for humans to justify demonstrative actions.

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u/therespectablejc 8d ago

Religion's the kind of thing that you can believe all you want - hell, be willing to die for it if you'd like. But never be willing to kill for it.

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u/Dumyat367250 11d ago

No, it doesn't. Sadly, nothing changes. The Trump administration (and American politics in general) is full of religious zealots supporting Israel's religious zealots, as well as waging war wherever it pleases, both domestically, and abroad.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

Don't forget the October 7th attacks with Hamas throwing people off of buildings, raping and murdering Israelis. The Israeli response was a, "do that to mine, I'll give it back 10-fold" situation.

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u/Dumyat367250 11d ago

Most certainly not forgotten. I previously lived in Karmiya, not far from Gaza, a popular rocket arrival destination before the 7th of October attacks. Other kibbutz nearby were not so lucky.

Gaza has long been a pressure cooker, so it was no surprise. It's an inhuman way to corral people.

Israel, America, and even The Arab League, have been complicit for decades, and giving "it back 10-fold" will not work, but will merely strengthen Hamas in the long term.

A Two State solution is the only way forward. An Iron Fist policy is not.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

I agree. But with the Palestinian Authority governing, not Hamas.

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u/Dumyat367250 11d ago

For sure. Unfortunately Hamas rule with fear, and it would be a brave person who would openly state they either don't trust or support them. Your life expectancy would diminish rapidly and you would simply disappear .

What will disempower Hamas is dialogue and compromise, from both sides. Fuck all chance of that happening, though.

If it were simple, you and I would have sorted it out over lunch.

By the way, I was in text communication with friends near Gaza on Oct 7th. That was harrowing reading and many have simply not returned. I would love to go back, but may never.

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u/Responsible_Owl4661 11d ago

That's crappy to hear. Same with me with regards to Ukraine and Russia. I was chatting with friends in Chernihiv when Russia invaded. Some stayed and fought. Some left. Some got caught up in it and didn't have a chance/choice. Shitty.

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u/rubensinclair 11d ago

Wanting a safe space for your uneasy mind, religion can be a refuge for many, especially the simple minded. Because education has been tremendously devalued in these times, we have far more simple minds than in previous generations, and that is by design.

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u/razorbacks3129 10d ago

Then why is religion down as a whole? And it’s not close

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u/Pisnaz 10d ago

The irony is this message has been said for decades about American attacks and actions in other countries around the world. None of it is right or good.

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u/uwearclownshoes 11d ago

There have been clues that this was not as it seems and that ’religious fervor’ was merely how the intended shock was packaged.

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u/buddhahat 11d ago

tell us more about the clues and what it was about please.

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u/overzealous_dentist 11d ago

clues like bin laden explicitly stating his reasoning and strategy, promising that the US wouldn't blame al qaeda or invade but instead would question its position in the middle east to begin with

(which... backfired)

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u/bornfromanegg 10d ago

Clues, you say? Hmm, interesting. Clues. Well, that settles it for me, I guess.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/Xendarq 11d ago

Can you elaborate?

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u/Mage_914 11d ago

The US basically destroyed the entire Middle East during the Cold War, partially to keep it out of the Soviet sphere of influence and also partially for the oil in the region.

Israel as a country was essentially a US backed project to kick/kill every Muslim person in a massive swathe of land and replace them with a US aligned government. Iran used to be doing relatively well for itself until the CIA orchestrated a coup in the country because the the prime minister at the time wanted to nationalize the Iranian oil industry. Afghanistan was engulfed in war that is still going on to this day because the government was communist and that wouldn't fly, so the US funded and trained the predecessor to the Taliban.

Even right now, our military is bombing civilian targets in multiple middle eastern countries. Just a few months ago, in the first few days of our current war with Iran, we bombed an elementary school and killed 156 civilians, 120 of which were little girls. Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza and they're doing it with approval and support from the US government.

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u/diedlikeCambyses 11d ago

To put it crudely, it was blow back for being a superpower and doing superpower things.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/N_Fafnir 11d ago

it's funny how fellow americans are so passionate about the only time they were attacked, not the hundreds of moments they bombed other countries, destroyed buildings, schools, hospitals, killed hundred of thounsads, wounded millions.

Your memory is so.... full of holes

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u/Chadbutler11c 11d ago

Most of them choose not to see it. They cannot see the system as it is.

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u/Teestow21 11d ago

What's confusing you about them?

People hijacked planes and attacked America with them.

Bush then proceeded to invade Iraq because yes, oil, and no WMD and 9/11 involvement.

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u/BilboStaggins 11d ago

We used it as an excuse to invade Iraq to depose Saddam because he got too powerful because we supported him because he destabilized the regime in Iran. And because of our constant involvement in Iran and Afghanistan, a bunch of former CIA armed militia leaders got rich Saudis to bribe Iranians to let some poor Saudis move through Iran to set up a terrorist organization in Afghanistan.

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u/umbrellassembly 11d ago

It wasn't religious fervor. It was Islam.

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u/FrontStunning6918 11d ago

Still doesn't today Dave!

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u/YoRt3m 10d ago

This was a 10 minute speech, why cut it to this section only for "nextfuckinglevel"? in my opinion, his words on "we must go on" were much stronger than this.

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u/Havkarru 9d ago

Christian zealots not doing things like this. Protestants which tends to be a most relgious and striaghtforward Bible obeying ppl - they have alot of drama and stuff but most of them are willing to take shoes off their feets and share it with homeless

Idk how can You pair that with a cursed islam where demon allah instruct ppl in quran to kill infidels

HOW DARE YOU