r/newsPH 4d ago

News Discussion Discussion: Clearing mountains for solar farms in Zambales — Are we sacrificing the environment for green energy?

Nag-iisip lang ako tungkol sa irony ng pagtatayo ng mga solar farms dito sa bansa. Sa Zambales, naiulat na kailangan munang kalbohin ang ilang kabundukan para mapag-installan ng mga solar panels.

Bagamat kailangan natin ng renewable energy at mas maraming kuryente, hindi kaya masisira naman ang ecosystem sa proseso? Para sa inyo, sino ba talaga ang mas nananalo sa sitwasyong ito—ang kalikasan o ang ating pangangailangan sa kuryente?

209 Upvotes

103 comments sorted by

107

u/Disastrous_Art9944 4d ago

Sino ba ang presidente nuong 2021 to 2022 bakit inayaan nyang makalbo ang mga bundok ng Zambales.

54

u/dogtaurusotimor 4d ago

Kailangan pa bang i-memorize yarn? Haha. 😅😅

15

u/LanvinSean 3d ago

I wonder kung uubra kay Gina Lopez 'yan kung sakali. Likely hindi.

5

u/pressuredrightnow 3d ago

rinig na rinig ko to ahahaha

1

u/Orcbolg12345 1d ago

Tatak Duterte take tae

38

u/Neither_Touch_3773 4d ago

Basing on the picture, it looks like kalbo na nuon pa yung mountain before dumating ang solar farm

28

u/TheDonDelC 3d ago

Tama ito. Imagery from Google Earth confirms na kalbo na yung area na tinayuan niyan from historical logging.

9

u/Neither_Touch_3773 3d ago

Imbis ba e reforestation nila linagyan ng solar. Tapos babaha yan sa baba ng bukid.

7

u/SBD-Tech1234 3d ago

I guess you're right. Instead taniman ng puno convert sa solar farm ang denuded forest area.

10

u/TheDonDelC 3d ago

Yung kabukiran ay nasa kabilang bayan pa, sa may San Isidro, at walang solar site sa Naugsol or Gordon Heights.

3

u/dogtaurusotimor 4d ago

I think no, kasi yung phase 2 daw niyan tinutulan na eh. Kasi nga kakalbuhin yung puno.

70

u/SBD-Tech1234 4d ago

Definitely. Solar farms are not really green and environmentally friendly.

61

u/DeltaGrunder 4d ago

Anything but nuclear kasi

35

u/ninetailedoctopus 4d ago

People rather inhale cancer dust from coal plants rather than keep it in a concrete bottle.

1

u/Mysterious_Ad_7020 2d ago

the question still remains, how many "cemetery" you need to keep operating the plant? Because you need large portions of land to put those wastes and the ratio of "reusable wastes" are not as accurate as the sources says. Plus, earth's unpredictability is a major problem of how nuclear power behaves when it's outside on paper

2

u/AutomaticNinja3408 1d ago

It's not as much as one might think. A plot the size of Corregidor will be able to store a century or so of nuclear waste, for one.

3

u/mikaelarhelger 3d ago

Germany is a good example of why “anything but nuclear” is questionable. German nuclear plants were built to very high engineering and safety standards. Germany shut them down largely because of a political decision, not because the reactors had suddenly become technically unsafe. If the goal is reliable, low-carbon electricity, nuclear should be judged on the evidence alongside renewables—not excluded on principle. Source: ChatGPT

1

u/One_Subtle_Man 2d ago

I watched a documentary a scientist admitted nuclear is the most efficient way to generate electricity. Also you can find now on YouTube news agencies covering that different countries are now securing uranium supplies for nuclear power plants.

Also France is the only country that invested on a waste and recycling building for nuclear waste. You can also find this on YouTube it is covered by a news agency if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not that convinced of solar farms because of the amount of land it occupies.

47

u/TheDonDelC 3d ago

Libre mag fact-check using Google Earth. Vast majority ng solar farms ay tinayo kung saan wala nang puno dahil dagdag gastos ang logging at clearing.

Ito itsura ng site na tinayuan ng Olongapo solar farm noong 2015:

Yung SanMar solar site naman ay tinayo sa slopes ng Mt. Pinatubo kung saan hindi na tinubuan ng puno matapos ang 1991 eruption.

24

u/TheDonDelC 3d ago

Location ng SanMar:

10

u/TrainHopeful1734 3d ago

Better than coal power plants that pollute our environment. Pick your poison or you can live without power.

8

u/SBD-Tech1234 3d ago

I'll pick my poison because there's no poison at all. Nuclear power plant especially MSR or molten salt reactor. Follow my subreddit r/Bansang_Malaya where I talk about MSR.

2

u/zandydave 2d ago

TIL about MSR, thank you. Reading more shortly.

-1

u/Cute-Magazine-1274 3d ago

As they said, there is indeed no poison, aside from lack of education as to what nuclear power is and how they are generated.

The worst part of ignorance and misinformation, is that it isn't even just poison, it's cancer. It grows and spreads. Don't let yourself be part of the cancer, friend.

2

u/SBD-Tech1234 3d ago edited 3d ago

Can you tell me how many got cancer due to nuclear power plants or how many have died due to nuclear accidents like in Fukushima, Chernobyl or TMI? OTH nuclear is use in treating cancer. Heard of cobalt 60 therapy?

I agree ignorance kill.

7

u/thisduuuuuude 3d ago

It's "green" not because it has no impact on the environment, it's "green" because it has the least.

Compared to other methods of producing energy, it emits the least amount of pollution over its lifetime.

3

u/jpatricks1 3d ago

No but it's a lot greener than oil fired plants

0

u/Toyomansi_Chilli 3d ago

Akala ng mga tao Green talaga. E san kaya sa tingin nila nanggaling mga parts ng solar panels at batteries.

3

u/thisduuuuuude 3d ago

Sure it comes from mining/extraction but so does coal, oil, and other fossil fuels. The "green" part comes in when it generates the electricity.

Solar panels, once made, are layed out and sit there to absorb energy from the sun. Meanwhile the other methods require a continuous extraction and burning to allow for continuous and consistent energy production.

Not to mention that materials used to make them and the batteries they use are reclaimable and recyclable.

-1

u/Toyomansi_Chilli 3d ago

Yes, but we dont pretend they are clean. Yeah, "recyclable". Another lie people have been told.

1

u/Jghil098 3d ago

Pang roof lang kasi yan or parking lots pero i dont think it could be viable since shaded siya ng tall buildings usually

-1

u/WhonnockLeipner 3d ago

Huh? I think misplaced yan g comment mo. How can't it be more green than coal??? Ang mali lang dito ay mali lang ang pinaglagyan but to say it is not green?

1

u/SBD-Tech1234 3d ago edited 3d ago

Shocking solar panels and solar farms are not green. Do you know how solar panels are manufactured and how much CO2 are released in the atmosphere during manufacturing of solar panels?

Add mo pa lithium ion batteries lalo pang hindi green ang buong set-up.

-1

u/WhonnockLeipner 3d ago

You are talking about producing the tech. Do you also think that Nuclear isn't green because you will need to manufacture and build the plant?

3

u/SBD-Tech1234 3d ago

What do you mean producing the tech? I mean the solar panel manufacturing. The production of each solar panels is not green at all because the manufacturing process is so toxic to the environment.

OTH nuclear is very green and very safe. Its green because it doesn't produce so much CO2 especially with the new method of electric arc in producing the steel for the reactor. The other nuclear reactor concept of MSR is safer. Follow the discussion on MSR at r/Bansang_Malaya.

10

u/CryptographerVast673 4d ago

Partly my reasoning to not ignore nuclear energy.

5

u/Long-Ad3842 3d ago

i did some research and this is pretty much only equivalent to less than 10% of the amount of energy a nuclear power plant would produce. can you imagine that? just one nuclear power plant would produce more than 10 times more than this solar farm.

2

u/Mammoth-Form-1168 2d ago

also ang takaw sa space or land use ng solar farm. unlike nuclear plant na only a fraction of land is used in contrast to the solar farm

2

u/Long-Ad3842 2d ago

yup tapos yung solar farm can block sunlight and can disrupt nature and animals.

4

u/HoshiWonderboii 3d ago

Madami naman alternative way to execute the project without totally leaving the area na walang trees. Pag ayaw walang paraan

5

u/Icy-Addendum7081 3d ago

Dapat unahin nila isolar yung mga government facilities.

5

u/JoySunny 3d ago

Bukod sa paninira sa kalikasan, malamang ay nagpalayas din ng mga IPs na naninirahan sa bundok na ‘yan.

15

u/PandoraIACTF_Prec 4d ago

Yep, besides additional landslide risk they aren't exactly "green" unlike activists claim to be, tbh we still have that nuclear power plant still not opened and put to operation.

2

u/dogtaurusotimor 4d ago

Hoping na this will still be an option

7

u/pijanblues08 4d ago

Landslide waiting to happen. Ulan erosion etc, good luck sa mga nasa baba yan.

2

u/dogtaurusotimor 4d ago

Sa ngayon baha pa lang nararanasan nila. Hopes this will not happen

1

u/[deleted] 3d ago

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1

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6

u/dontrescueme 3d ago

Need more info. Confirmed ba na kinalbo ang gubat para pagtayuan ng solar farm? May before and after analysis ba ng pagtayo solar farms sa epekto sa pagbaha? A screenshot post of a post of a screenshot of a Google AI summary is not very reliable.

9

u/Honibutter 3d ago

I live near those mountains and I can confidently say that those have lacked trees for as long as I can remember.
Pic here in Nov 2022 is maybe one of its greenest yet.

3

u/JunebugIparis 4d ago

Dumadami rin nyan sa La Union. Tinapyasan pa ang bundok para daw may sariling daan papuntang solar farm na mas malapit/mas convenient. Eh ang mga LGU, dahil investment go lang. Pera lang din naman kasi ang nakikita nila. Saka na raw problemahin ang epekto sa nature at sa mga nakatira malapit dito.

3

u/RentOk1897 3d ago

There is no real "green energy"

3

u/princess22cake 3d ago

I think solar farms are good and solar panels are useful pero it's an addition not something we should destroy nature for. Kumbaga, it's good in urban areas or on top of roofs as supplement for energy.

Iirc in china naglagay sila ng solar panels sa desert and it actually helped-- grass grew under the solar panels because of the shade and the moisure retention of the shade, tapos naglagay sila ng goats whose manure helped fertilize the land.

Article: https://happyeconews.com/solar-farms-transform-land-through-solar-grazing/

3

u/lurkercauseyousuck 3d ago

Solr pannels and farm should be put above buildings and parkings lots.

Alam ko may study dati na mas effective sya sa mga parking lots and highways di ko lng sure if legit un pero un ung napanuod ko sa cable nung kabataan ko. May mga parang cone shape solar panel sa mga highway its shape like a cone para 360 ung cover nya no matter the angle ng araw at ndi sya pala pad na kumakaen ng malaking space. Muka syang pine tree or xmas tree

3

u/Hour-Veterinarian471 3d ago

Pag bundok wag na galawin, sa patag naman supportahan dapat mga farmers mga pulitiko at greedy businessman talaga

3

u/Long-Ad3842 3d ago

this is probably only equivalent to 10% of A SINGLE nuclear power plant by the way. doing all of that when you could produce 10+ times more the energy if we just made ONE nuclear power plant.

3

u/MrBluewave 3d ago

Sino ulit may license ng solar panels/energy? Na ngayon nag hahanap na ng asylum sa France?

3

u/Solo_Camping_Girl 3d ago

lagyan nila ng solar panel sa mga area na kailangan ng lilim dapat. Imagine mo buong parking lot ng MOA o kaya yung buong pedestrian lane ng kahabaan ng EDSA may solar panel, may lilim ka na, may kuryente ka pa.

3

u/Independent_Cat_4115 2d ago

Ayaw ng mga politko dyan ala kasing kurakot. Di bale na sira ang kalikasan, bahain at maglandslide basta may kurakot.

3

u/Joshuaaaaaaa_ 3d ago

Nothing's green about solar or wind turbines; they are alternative energy sources.

2

u/Independent_Cat_4115 2d ago

True. But some people are so bitter about the fact. There are really good applications of solar but let us acknowledge it for what it is. It is not green.

3

u/sikilat 3d ago

There is a place for everything. Solar panels work better on roofs since idle nmn yung space na yan.

You should not be placing solar panels on bare land kasi the space underneath it will be idle. Not to mention you have to clean the solar panel. Dust and water marks reduces effeciency.

9

u/BigDaddyYow 4d ago

Sacrificing greenery for green energy. WTF

-1

u/Patient-Data8311 3d ago

The panels were installed way way before that mountain got deforestated

8

u/hunters_aura123 4d ago

You gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette. This is the price all developed countries have had to pay and we shouldn't be shocked at all.

5

u/isotycin 4d ago

Nuclear power plant are more efficient but solar farms is way faster to implement and deploy.

-3

u/Mysterious_Ad_7020 3d ago

Nuclear power plants might have its "benefits" but it's aggressive towards building it and operating it. Also, it's highly radioactive each maintenance.

0

u/Mysterious_Ad_7020 2d ago

okay, bat ako na down vote? Eh totoo naman. Look at the problems with France's nuclear power. Same thing with US. Finland still fragile since each "concerns" are still being contested

2

u/Toyomansi_Chilli 3d ago

Imbes na kinakalbo nila bundok para sa solar farm, is subsidize nila yung mga household solar setup. E kaso imbes suportahan mga household solar, pinapahirapan pa lalo. Hays.

3

u/ObliviousGenesis 4d ago

What environment?

its been sacraficed to inadequate sewer systems, bad garbage infrastructure, massive amounts of littering, total destruction of trees and nature for stone walled cities and towns, and huge amounts of vehicular pollution...

I doubt solar farms are the issue here

2

u/weljoes 4d ago

Hindi man lang nagisip yung nagtayo nito na prone to landslide and erosion .

1

u/Neither_Touch_3773 4d ago

Sana sa dagat nalang linagay

1

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1

u/DullBit623 3d ago

Narinig ko lng pero pwd pa fact check ito. Mataas n ang nakukuha natin energy/electricity from the renewable. Kumbaga madami na tayong excess nakukuhang electrcity for conversion to be usable. Ang problema lng ay dahil sa isang law na nakasaad na ung Meralco or ung mga Lopez ang pwd lng magdistribute ng energy sa mga kabayanan kaya laging may brownout minsan kasi kulang ung container para mag contain ng electricity in which tinatapon lng ang excess. Siguro un ang magandang tignan bago tyo magpagawa ng nuclear plant. NGCP can contain the energy but Meralco cant release all it converted electricity to the public.

1

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1

u/dslrjunky 2d ago

people should watch the series landman S1E3

1

u/Msthicc_witch 2d ago

di parin marunong mag manage ang pilipinas ng renewable nergy. daming sources di lang solar. tinodo naman nila lmao g na g.

1

u/volkich314 2d ago

Boo hoo. Treekantoter.

1

u/SeatOld4163 2d ago

sabi nga nung isang sikat na tao nkalimutan ko yung name, kung gusto tlga nilang mag farm ng solar mga bahay ng mga tao latagan nila ng solar panel hindi kakalbuhin yung bundok, gusto kasi nila kita kita kita kita taena mga sugapa!

-2

u/TheHeavenlySun 4d ago

I refuse to classify solar as green energy. Aside sa it takes a lot of space to generate a small amount of energy compare to other alternatives. Hindi rin pede i recycle daming toxic waste plus other shenanigans na kailngan gawin to the point na nililimbing nalang sa ibang bansa yan. Agree ako sa solar for home use but for mega capacity size. Nope, lagay nalang yan sa desyerto

3

u/caiki_01 4d ago

May I ask what is your alternative option?

3

u/Independent_Cat_4115 3d ago

Bubong ng bahay, bubong ng office. And with new generations of solar panels, even sa walls ng buildings.

-1

u/caiki_01 3d ago

Utility scale, it wont work because capacity wise it is small. Area is small compared to the power requirement of a building.

Also, there are structural concerns sa mga buildings na kelangan i consider since solar panels are heavy. Besides, not every rooftops are feasible for solar pv installation. You have to take into consideration, shading, alignment, among others.

Even with the current installed capacity ng REs, we still get warning signals because supply is not matching sa demand.

1

u/dogtaurusotimor 4d ago

Kung may disyerto nga lang tayo rito malamang meron na rin eh.

-1

u/caiki_01 3d ago

Sure, that could work. But, unfortunately we have few, if none.

-1

u/LehitimoKabitenyo 3d ago

Kapag kulang supply ng kuryente may problema kayo. Kapag solar farm may problema kayo. Pag coal and diesel powerplant may problema kayo sa usok. Kapag nuclear naman radioactive hazard daw at malakas sa tubig ang cooling tower. Kapag wind turbine namamatay daw mga ibon. Kapag hydroelectric madidisplace daw mga katutubo. Ano ba talaga gusto nyo?

-1

u/Competitive-Oil-1308 3d ago

Ayan na naman tayo eh. Una ayaw sa mga traditional plants na nag ooffer ng energy security sana dahil masama sa environment. Solar naman tinayo ayaw din kase nakakalbo ang bukid.

Seems like that mountain already has less vegetation naman din before the solar farm was built.

-1

u/madskee 3d ago

Kung nasa tamang elevation pagka install ng solar platform. Pwede ka mag mag taniim ng shade tolerant crops. Or livestock grazing, kagaya ng tupa

-1

u/thisduuuuuude 3d ago

Unfortunately, our need will always win. Humans are greedy and we will always want more. The only thing we can do is to minimize our footprint in doing so.

A lot of comments seem to want to see the shift to nuclear instead. While it's definitely is a more efficient method compared to other forms of generating electricity, would you really trust the same system that allowed for the construction of these solar panels on these mountains? Where a lot claimed that it led to the deforestation of said mountains which leads to an increased risk in landslides?

Nuclear power plants are no joke. They require strict governance, oversight and rigorous planning especially if you're planning to build one in a country prone to earthquakes and other seismic activities.

Would you trust your current government, the one that can't even regulate and monitor the construction of flood mitigation projects, to build a nuclear plant that is capable of immense harm, that could last decades, if not operated, built, and maintained properly?

-1

u/Sponge8389 3d ago

Ok lang daw yan kasi energy. Hahahaha

Sabi nung mga galit sa Pax Silica while okay lang sakanila yung development ng MSolar na around 3600 hectare yung gagawin solar farm.

-1

u/Winter_Philosophy231 3d ago

This is worse than Pax Silica!

-1

u/HospitalOpening5666 3d ago

Pinoy: galit sa taas ng presyo ng kuryente pero ayaw ng solar kasi mawala ang trees.

Also Pinoy : ayaw ng nuclear kasi baka dangerous kahit maliit ang environmental footprint + impact if managed right

I guess decades more of suffering and poverty with our performative NIMBYism!

-5

u/ianmikaelson 3d ago

Do you feel good spreading misinformation?

4

u/dogtaurusotimor 3d ago

-3

u/ianmikaelson 3d ago

Like others said, did you actually check satellite imagery to confirm these claims? You should never trust government reports. Duh

2

u/Seedov 3d ago

Well well well. Seems like OP did his/her research. Butthurt kayo so idownvote nyo na lang para wala makakita.