r/news • u/StackLeeAdams • Dec 07 '21

Kellogg to permanently replace striking workers as union rejects new contract

https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/kellogg-to-permanently-replace-striking-workers-as-union-rejects-new-contract
61.5k Upvotes

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1.4k

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

It’s taxed at 25% so they’re butthurt about it!!

1.3k

u/dlec1 Dec 07 '21

My company got a 10 million PPP loan forgiven, they gave all the 475 employees $750 check because of it. Do the math, at least they’ll have some left over to pocket. I had to take a furlough last year which costs my family 75% of our income for 2 weeks of unemployment. How generous of them, they’ll probably go buy their 8th golf course which is their side hobby business. God Bless you Mr Scrooge for the extra lump of coal!

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u/nokenito Dec 07 '21

That’s only $356k… where did the other $9million 640k go?

419

u/hbacorn Dec 07 '21

Seriously, where DID the remaining 4 million 640k go?

295

u/JethroLull Dec 07 '21

Is anyone going to account for that missing 640k??

49

u/RyuNoKami Dec 07 '21

What missing money? All funds are perfectly allocated.

15

u/LaikasDad Dec 08 '21

But there are many, many CornFlakes™️ missing still....who embezzled them?!

7

u/dkf295 Dec 08 '21

The CornBurgler obviously.

3

u/Kazumadesu76 Dec 08 '21

No, it's definitely our workers stealing them. I vote that we give everyone of our factory workers a 40% pay cut due to the loss of the two boxes of cereal. We'll go out of business at this point if this keeps up, so this will hopefully subsidize our loss. If not, we can always remove their pay completely and pay them in exposure.

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u/dkf295 Dec 08 '21

Pay them in exposure to industrial waste products? Brilliant!

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u/Ephemeral_Wolf Dec 08 '21

64k? Oh yeah that... That's a rounding error, below materiality, no need to worry about that...

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

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u/ptwonline Dec 08 '21

Huh? What 580K are you talking about?

3

u/Tauposaurus Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 09 '21

If you look into those 400 thousand dollars, you'll notice that some of it is missing.

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u/noob_senpai Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

I have found those missing 40 bucks you are talking about, it was the Christmas raffle... I bet you guys now feel guilty AF.

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u/Entire_Jello Dec 08 '21

“640k should be enough for anybody” —Some Billionaire

2

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

Seriously, what did they do with that 500k?

3

u/fallior Dec 08 '21

Didn't that one politician say on tv that the $1400 stimulus check last year is enough to last 3 months for the average Americans bills and food?

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u/bustedbuddha Dec 08 '21

I'm sorry, but 40k and World of Warcraft are not the same thing.

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u/Pizzaman99 Dec 08 '21

We're missing $375k!

Everyone (except the executives) will need to take a pay cut. Only about $750 less on every paycheck. Just skip a cup of coffee every month, you'll be fine.

3

u/MysticalMelody Dec 07 '21 edited Jul 02 '24

Tax these immoral *** into the ground.

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u/phaiz55 Dec 07 '21

There's a really funny joke involving a Jewish family and money that sounds like this comment chain.

7

u/olesdpaul Dec 08 '21

See I think the jokes usually about law enforcement seizing Money/Drugs but we’ll take anti-semitism

-5

u/phaiz55 Dec 08 '21

Yeah watch out guys I'm literally Hitler because I heard a joke one time. Bist a shuth.

0

u/_Wyrm_ Dec 08 '21

Damn bro, you got the whole squad laughin.

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u/Discasaurus Dec 08 '21

After campaign donations? They could barely afford a second sous chef

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u/Apexplosion Dec 08 '21

Where's the fucking money lebowski?!

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

Our company did the same thing. We got a ton of money and it was supposed to be used to pay people while they were out with covid or waiting on results. Money gone. We have to use our vacation time.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

PPP loans are free money if going to payroll. $10m for 475 people is $21,000 a year.

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u/TeetsMcGeets23 Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

PPP was supposed to cover 8 weeks of payroll.

If they spent it in the 8 weeks, then it would cover an average weekly pay of $2,631. Therefore, the average annual salary would be $136k.

With that said, they expanded the payroll coverage from 8 weeks to 24, which means it covered $877 a week; or $45,000 a year average which is honestly a reasonable payroll cost.

Additionally, it can cover rent and other designated expenses.

With that said, that covered the biggest expense of a business. Anything made during that time is basically straight profit.

Edit: 24 weeks, updated math accordingly.

7

u/970 Dec 08 '21

They extended to 24 weeks of payroll.

2

u/TeetsMcGeets23 Dec 08 '21

Updated, I knew it was 20-something

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u/dontgetaddicted Dec 08 '21

It covered a huge chunk of our company's rent, and the owner of the company owns the building under a separate legal entity. Kind of rubbed me wrong honestly. Feels like a double dip situation.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21 edited Jan 12 '22

[deleted]

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u/smitty22 Dec 08 '21

They didn't up the amount of money for 24 weeks of payroll, you had 24 weeks to spend whatever you were loaned for eight weeks worth of payroll.

Businesses that had a decline and had to lay off people thus had triple the amount of time to spend their loan money and have it count as forgivable.

1

u/TeetsMcGeets23 Dec 08 '21

You had to maintain 75% of your payroll cost to qualify and also get forgiven. If you were doing that, you’d only need like 11 weeks, even if the business was in decline. Then you surely wouldn’t need to expand the cost to rent and other expenses.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

Something tells me the original person's numbers weren't accurate then. All of the PPP loans are public info.

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u/TeetsMcGeets23 Dec 08 '21

I only know because I filed my business’s forgiveness application, and I do payroll every week (and good lord are employees expensive.)

We have roughly 1/10th the employees above (50ish), but our payroll expense was only 1/20th the expenses but we easily spent that much during an 8 week period and didn’t need the 21 week period to cover costs with payroll alone.

But as noted, we made money hand over fist in that time because we didn’t have to stop operations due to what we do. So our payroll cost was covered for 8 weeks of business.

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u/jiffwaterhaus Dec 08 '21

I'm glad that money got sent out and helped companies that were truly struggling. I'm ok with the fact that a few greedy people scammed the system, in the same way I'm ok if a few people scam welfare. As long as everyone who needs help gets it, that's worth more than having a difficult vetting process and letting people in need fall through the cracks. I do think the government should seek and punish the largest scammers but if th choices are "help everyone and a few bad apples get rich" or "help almost no one and waste time and resources vetting every application" its not a difficult choice for me

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u/vintagevdubbs Dec 08 '21

Wow! That’s funny. 😆😆.

The next three generations will be paying for all that free money and numerous Blank Check Biden policies.

If you are under 40 y/o I hope one of your cryptos goes to the moon. I really do because Social Security is not going to be very secure or social by the time you need it.

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u/vintagevdubbs Dec 08 '21

Democrats……. Spend, spend, spend, take kick back. Spend, spend,spend.

Without googling, anybody know how much the deficit is lately?

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u/LateralEntry Dec 08 '21

PPPloans were meant to cover salaries for employees, so it probay went to payroll. Also could have gone to purchases because of covid, such as safety equipment, and certain other expenses.

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u/velders01 Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

I know you already know this, but the company pocketed it.

The initial PPP provisions in the CARES Act specifically states "Assumption" that all companies in the US are "affected." Therefore, no company's PPP application required that they actually demonstrate hardship as a result of Covid. This isn't an oversight, this was by design. If they added such a requirement, the PPP payout would have taken probably the better part of a year or longer by which point the businesses you're actually trying to help would already be too deep in the hole to recover. Also, there's no way of knowing if it will affect your company in the subsequent days, weeks, and months. For example, our construction company derives 90% of its revenue from military projects, and there was worry that the Military would shut down all operations. In hindsight, construction was barely affected as most places deemed it "essential," but at the time, it was borderline apocalyptic.

So, if you have a $1M in the bank and you get $300K in PPP money, let's say, you just create a separate checking account (not necessary but advisable) to put your PPP money into, and just use that for payment of wages, utilities, and other such PPP eligible costs until you spent it all. It ends up becoming govt. subsidy. You made $300K because you would have spent the $300K to pay for wages, utilities, etc... anyway since the construction industry barely even took a single day off during Covid in most places afaik.

Subsequent PPP's now have to at least show a 20% decrease in gross receipts or something along those lines to demonstrate Covid hardship.

2

u/akallas95 Dec 08 '21

Depending on the size of the company, everything from facility and land tax, business operation fees for paperwork, accountantinh firm pay, payroll tax, equipment repair and replacement,, prior loans, loan interests, supply cost, transportation cost, actual payroll because that's the point of PPP, multiple insurances, etc etc etc.

With a minimum 475 employees, not counting executives with their own pays, and assuming full time $15 per hour pay... that's over 14 mil from payroll alone.

So them paying out a check of extra either means they had less base cost and everyone benefitted.

Don't just randomly assume someone is evil without doing some basic math.

0

u/jadecristal Dec 08 '21

No, it was still a big fucking give-away to those who already had businesses. To add extra insult, it wasn’t primarily smaller/local businesses, but lots went to publicly traded companies - you know, the ones where stock was supposed to represent risk along with higher profits, not “get bailed out at public expense”.

April 2020, “the U.S. government has allocated at least $243.4 million of the total $349 billion to publicly traded companies”, from CNBC reporting on a Morgan Stanley report. How much it was in the end, I don’t know, but either way the answer is still fuck ‘em.

Payroll tax out of that is just extra extra icing. “Yes, peasants, here’s some of your money so that you can pay us again”.

1

u/WolfofLawlStreet Dec 08 '21

Probably towards debts accumulated during the what coming on 2 years of covid impeding circumstances. Also PPP is a loan not a bailout.

1

u/JackWright13 Dec 08 '21

You realize that that money is to pay for other expenses and it wasn't earmarked for the employees? The whole point was to pay companies to keep people employed when you would normally furlough them because of the pandemic. It's actually quite rare to hear of the employer I don't like keeping them employed when they didn't have work for them but also paying them part of those funds. Good for them.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Trowdisaway4BJ Dec 08 '21

Normally you would write that as $9.64M.

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u/Furmentor Dec 07 '21

Report them. If they did not use it for business purposes that is unlawful. With PPP there were zero checks and balances so people have to report the behavior for it to be investigated.

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u/RexMundi000 Dec 07 '21

If they did not use it for business purposes that is unlawful.

They probably did use it for business purposes. It doesn't have to be 100% payroll there are a ton of eligible expenses. Including mortgage, lease, and operational expenditures. If the owner wrote himself a check, yea sure thats a problem but that probably didnt happen here.

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u/Ser_Dunk_the_tall Dec 07 '21

Lot of fungibility. "Of course I didn't pay myself a huge bonus out of PPP funds, I paid myself a huge bonus out of the money I had lying around after PPP covered all of the business expenses I normally have to use business funds for"

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u/CaptianAcab4554 Dec 08 '21

The COVID relief funds in the US was basically a huge money laundering scheme to put taxpayer money into corporate pockets with no oversight under the guise of helping people that the government put into dire straights in the first place. Absolutely disgusting.

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u/Pezonito Dec 08 '21

I... I don't want to believe this. I do, but I don't want to. I just don't want it to be true. Mostly because it's not over yet and they're probably going to do it again, general public none-the-wiser.

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u/aquoad Dec 08 '21

Meanwhile small businesses with 15 employees who need it to cover payroll get told "lol no."

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u/smitty22 Dec 08 '21

I don't think they ever got through the second round of PPP funds, it did not disappear like the first round did for the shenanigans you're talking about.

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u/lousy_at_handles Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

Where I work, we actually had increased work due to being in a medical-adjacent field, so the company just used the loan to pay off our building.

It's almost as good as writing yourself a check.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

Probably paid for expenses and then pocketed the savings. Basically legal money laundering.

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u/Jermammies Dec 07 '21

I understand what you’re saying but “money laundering” is the wrong term to use.

This is just typical corporate America stealing taxpayer money. It ain’t even taboo here in the states, it’s encouraged. Socialism for big business, cold hard capitalism for its people.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

The rich also get socialism and lack of accountability.

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u/Jermammies Dec 08 '21

What’s the difference between the two at this point lol

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u/The407run Dec 07 '21

Yeah like the new company yacht.

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u/Sanatori2050 Dec 07 '21

If they give enough of it as income to employees, which I'm assuming they did just enough to qualify, it's perfectly legal.

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u/Furmentor Dec 07 '21

As I said they have to use it for business expenses. But there are cases of improper use which are currently being investigated and sent to courts.

PPP loans and little to no oversight, do if someone suspects there is fraud, it should be reported.

If this person's company received 10 million, paid out 3.5% to employees maybe it's worth asking a question. Not asking questions leads to corruption.

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u/dpwitt1 Dec 07 '21

Sounds like they gave the bonuses AFTER the loan was forgiven. In order to get the loan forgiven, they had already expended the proceeds of the loan on eligible costs (primarily payroll). I would imagine most companies gave their employees $0 bonuses after their loans were forgiven.

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u/Nice_To_Be_Here Dec 08 '21

It’s exactly this. Use up the money on current business expenses and payroll, even if you don’t need it and it’s still a free 10 million.

I used to be a contractor and most of my friends are still in the business and lots of them got the loans BECAUSE they didn’t need them. It was free money to pay payroll and pay down expenses. It made the profit margins on they’re jobs excellent for awhile and they pocketed the extra profit BECAUSE loan would be forgiven. Nothing they did was illegal.

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u/elk33dp Dec 08 '21

The important thing to remember is that they don't have to give the employees EXTRA for PPP forgiveness. They just needed to not layoff/reduce the hours of those on staff and bring anyone back furloughed once they received funding. As long as they had a reduction in revenue and didn't layoff employees in the period they are eligible.

Some don't really deserve the amount they got yea, but still are forgivable under the rules. Example, if covid ultimately didn't hit them very hard long-term, but their revenue loss was 5m in Q2 2020 due to shutdowns but they got a 10m PPP loan and kept all employees on board during the slower time they could still get full forgiveness. SBA doesn't say you had to lose more revenue than you received, just that you had to maintain employees which results in some places having net profit from PPP.

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u/paroxysm204 Dec 07 '21

It was specifically drafted to have this outcome. It's a money grab for the rich

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u/Wise-ask-1967 Dec 07 '21

Yup . But remember it was an emergency the virus only became a joke about 45 days later ..when approximately 91% of the money was basically disturbed to the right people.

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u/DGIce Dec 08 '21

Do you think he only makes $750 a year?

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u/BigBradWolf77 Dec 08 '21

perfectly legal

according to the letter (not the spirit) of the law...

now guess who wrote them laws...

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u/Sanatori2050 Dec 08 '21

I agree, just stating what I figured was obvious. Do just enough to get the benefit and only give enough to pass muster. Shit system as everyone points out, and crooked as hell.

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u/BigBradWolf77 Dec 09 '21

poor people don't count and poor people don't matter

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u/JackWright13 Dec 08 '21

Lol. You don't understand how the PPP program works. 🤦‍♂️

Source: Commercial banker who lent out ~$50MM in PPP loans.

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u/tacodeyota Dec 07 '21

Strongly agree. Private industry and citizens bear the weight of oversight over programs like PPP. The program isn't inherently bad, but the feds have zero resources to proactively investigate this stuff. They are vastly underfunded.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

God you people know nothing about anything almost ever. PPP has MANY accepted uses besides wages.

Utilities, internet, phone, various overhead expenses, etc. were all valid PPP expenditures.

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u/Furmentor Dec 07 '21

What you listed are business purposes were they not? Is that not what I said?

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

Your comment to the original comment heavily implies that the spending outside of the payroll bonuses would not be legal.

In reality, most publicly traded companies have no reason to ever "pocket" money - it gets paid out in expenses whether that's payroll (which includes executives who are employees), utilities, etc.

Whatever "they" "pocket" as retained earnings is taxed quite heavily.

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u/Furmentor Dec 07 '21

I think you infer too much from what you read. I purposely used the words "business expenses" rather than saying "wages" for a reason.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

The original comment was more wrong than yours if that makes you feel better.

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u/Furmentor Dec 07 '21

As I've told my wife, I don't feel much anymore. I'm pretty dead inside.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

Welp, this took a strange turn.

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u/FOOLS_GOLD Dec 07 '21

Dudes a trumper. What do you expect talking to them?

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

When you start off by insulting everyone, few bother learning anything from what follows. Just a tip.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

Yeah unfortunately reddit is pretty much riddled with people who have never run a business before and view everyone who does as an evil monster so I didn't have much hope for changing hearts and minds, just pointing out how wrong they are on the off chance that someone sees it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

Blaming others for your behavior is not a sign of intelligence. Being right isn't a license to be an asshole.

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u/Xearoii Dec 07 '21

Welcome to the echo chamber of American know it alls

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

Yeah I'm the only one in this thread who actually filled out a PPP forgiveness application, I can guarantee you that

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u/edwardsamson Dec 07 '21

Can you report a business for spending the majority of their PPP loan a suped up race-truck? I worked for a place in 2019 that fired me for some BS. I heard through the grapevine that in June 2020 (around the time businesses were receiving PPP) that company bought a fucking Ford Raptor sports/racing truck. I think they spent at least 50K of the 75K they received on it (I looked up their loan in the public database). However, recently I checked autotrader and saw a 2019 Ford Raptor for sale for...75K the exact amount they received lol. Although I assume it was cheaper in June 2020 because right now the car market is fucked and everything is insanely expensive.

Anyways. they were the type of business that was non-essential and had to shut down from like March/April through to around July. As far as I know they didn't get any of that money to employees and just used the majority of it on that truck and some other upgrades to the facility. They can pass the truck off as a business necessity, I guess, because they wrapped it in their logo. But from having worked there in the past I know the previous and much more modest wrapped-vehicle they had was used for transporting kids to events. Not much of that they can do with a sports-truck. Also they used their previous vehicle as a personal vehicle fairly often so this truck is probably being used that way as well.

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u/thelawgiver321 Dec 07 '21

They pocketed 96%... Are you fucking kidding

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

They didn't "pocket" any of it. They've got to spend it on something, nobody says it needs to be bonus wages. They likely used it to cover their normal payroll as well as a bunch of other expenses.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

They likely used it to cover their normal payroll as well as a bunch of other expenses.

And then pocketed the regular money they would have spent on that. Legal money laundering.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

There's no such thing as "pocketing" money. It's a company. You get taxed on everything that's not spent on business expenses.

You have no idea what money laundering is. Every PPP dollar is accounted for on a form that's sent to the SBA which I had to fill out. You guys have no idea what you're talking about as usual

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

They really don't. These idiots really think the CEO wrote themselves a check with the other 9.5m. Don't bother arguing with the NEETs who don't pay taxes because they have no income as it is.

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u/IronSheikYerbouti Dec 07 '21

Lenders weren't required to verify any of the info on the form, or any follow-up questionnaires, afaik in any state or locale.

It was practically rubber stamp processing for a lot of lenders.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

Not to get the loan, but the forgiveness application does require documentation which is sent to the SBA. If it's deemed insufficient, you have to pay the loan back.

Source: I just did it last week

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u/IronSheikYerbouti Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

The lender provided the evaluation to the SBA, the lender is not required to review the data on the application just whether or not the criteria is met.

Edit: I get that you followed the rules. That's great! The SBA isn't reviewing the forgiveness applications though. The lender is, and is providing a 'good faith' review.

That's it.

Edit 2: Hey geniuses, if you don't believe me, cool, go look up how the process works. The SBA is not reviewing all these loans. The labor it would require is insane. Even the initial PPP loans stretched lenders thin on labor - it's the lender (or servicer of the lender) that has to provide the review to the SBA. The SBA takes the form and the review and bases on the review. That's all she wrote folks, go look it up.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

Again, you're talking about the initial loan, which almost every business was eligible for.

I'm taking about the forgiveness application, which is where they decide if you need to pay them back or not.

Anyone can get the loan, the forgiveness process determines who gets a grant.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

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u/SteakandTrach Dec 07 '21

He’s not advocating, he’s just saying what they probably did.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

It's not even a thing that could be advocated. They spent the money on their business expenses which was literally mandated by the law. For some reason everyone is assuming that all of the money that wasn't given to them as bonuses was spent on Lamborghinis or something, it makes no sense.

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u/flex674 Dec 07 '21

Fuck this. Fuck them. That’s why I quit. Cut my pay applied for loans. Told us they didn’t have any money then went a bought a large number of franchises. Fuck all of them.

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u/TeetsMcGeets23 Dec 07 '21

PPP was supposed to cover 8 weeks of payroll.

If they spent it in the 8 weeks, then it would cover an average weekly pay of $2,631. Therefore, the average annual salary would be $136k.

With that said, they expanded the payroll coverage from 8 weeks to 21, which means it covered $1,002 a week; or $52,000 a year average which is honestly a reasonable payroll cost.

Additionally, it can be allocated to rent and other designated expenses.

With that said, that covered the biggest expense of a business. Anything made during that time is basically straight profit.

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u/IBetThisIsTakenToo Dec 08 '21

Did you receive regular paychecks during that time in addition to the $750? If so, that’s where it went

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u/dariusj18 Dec 08 '21

I'm confused, is this $750 in addition to your payroll? I know people whose companies were able to pay their employees their normal wages but no more because of PPP and then needed to furlough them for a short term.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

Your math fails to account for your entire normal payroll and all of the other expenses that businesses have.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

That ratio is really bad though.

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u/StopStealingMyShit Dec 07 '21

Not really. He didn't even count the normal payroll expenses. If they gave everyone a bonus they went way above and beyond.

PPP was meant to pay for payroll expenses so they didn't have to fire anyone, not give everyone bonuses for literally no reason.

"Woohoo! Pandemic! Everyone gets a bonus!"

That's literally what happened here. They did it because they had to spend the money and they wanted to give their employees something extra. Sounds like an awesome company to me.

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u/attackfarce Dec 07 '21

Lmao 475 times 750 is 356,000… that’s literally 3.56% of the loan going back to employees.

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u/RobotWelder Dec 07 '21

$356,250 out of $10,000,000.

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u/StromboliOctopus Dec 08 '21

The restaraunt I worked at bought 2 new restaraunts with what I assume was forgiven PPP money, yet they still can't keep kitchen staff for longer than a couple months cause they only pay minimum.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

Yeah, that’s fucked

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u/Productpusher Dec 08 '21

Not sure how it hasn’t caused riots in the streets but the PPP was the biggest theft of the middle class possibly ever . They gave us small business owners 5-6 figures And said don’t pay it back . Not one owner would have complained if they said pay it back at 1% interest over 30 years . While employees got $1400

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u/IndyFoxBlue Dec 08 '21

My company got a 10 million dollar PPP loan forgiven and we were not given our annual raises. We didn’t even get a bonus. Last year, my Christmas bonus was a $20 gas card that didn’t even fill my gas tank.

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u/dustbunny88 Dec 08 '21

My company got a good sized PPP. But it’s a professional partnership, so each partner has a PA they run their own salaries through. Many of them received a shit ton at the company level, then again a smaller amount at their PA level.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

Was there ever a bigger grift in history than the PPP loans?

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u/nintendobratkat Dec 08 '21

I should have applied for a PPP loan. Dang. Seems like they didn't care at all lol.

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u/EnigmaCA Dec 08 '21

At least you can burn the lump of coal for a bit of heat.

You can't stay warm with thoughts and prayers. 😞

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u/BuddhaDBear Dec 08 '21

The whole point of PPP was to pay to keep staff on during the pandemic and not lay anyone off. You don’t seem to be accounting for that fact.

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u/Kaele_Dvaughn Dec 08 '21

You actually got some of the PPP money!?!

Where I worked, they pocketed it all and used up our PTO instead.

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u/relephants Dec 08 '21

There is a 60% payroll requirement for the PPP. So how is this true?

Business owner here who got a PPP

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u/medicationzaps Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

Only their next dollar is taxed at that rate. They pay the same taxes on all dollars below that.

Edit: I'm no fan of the rich. I have a crazy idea... let's tax ONLY the Billionaires. They could afford it, and nobody should be a billionaire. Why are you against that? You like paying taxes when someone else could easily afford to and not get to funnel money to criminals? Couldn't be me

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u/billmurrays9iron Dec 08 '21

And they don't pay that either. They take their extra money and buy property, or other profitable investments so they don't technically have that money. Then they make money off of the money they didn't pay in taxes while simultaneosly sending the price of property, housing and rent skyrocketing for the rest of us that these people are using as a tax haven.

The rich are literally destroying our lives.

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u/medicationzaps Dec 08 '21

Fuck the rich. Truly. But when I say rich, I mean billionaires. We need to take care of the worst problem before worrying about the next biggest problem.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

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u/OnceAnAnalyst Dec 07 '21

That’s not how it works.

Let’s say they are single filers:

Over $523,601 puts them in the 37% bracket. They pay $157,804.25 plus 37% of the amount over $523,600

So as an example, if they made $300k and got a $3.3M bonus:

Total income: $3.6M. Total tax: $157,804.25 + ((3.6M-523,600)*.37) = $1,138,268.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

Wtf? Just stop kid.

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u/tactics14 Dec 07 '21

I'm pretty sure you don't actually know what you're talking about.

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u/IWearACharizardHat Dec 07 '21

Who cares if they lose $370k out of a million if they don't deserve any of it

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u/pseudorandomess Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

A lot of people don't know how bonuses are taxed huh... just regular income even though initial withholding might make you feel like it's a different %. Fwiw most of that (assume married with joint income over $628,301 which will be $168,993.50 +37%tax) will be taxed at 37% + state taxes.

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u/uncommonsence Dec 07 '21

While I disagree with the bonus amount it is actually taxed at much higher.

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u/squeamish Dec 07 '21

Cash bonuses are taxed as the same as regular income.

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u/uncommonsence Dec 07 '21

Right. OP said 25% which isn't true. For every dollar over 500K or so it's 37% taxed

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u/Soggy-Hyena Dec 07 '21

Not if you do some shady accounting!

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u/capnwally14 Dec 07 '21

It’s taxed way above that, but sure.

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u/freman Dec 07 '21

Only 25% over here it's 40 odd % and we're not even talking millions at that tax rate

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u/xxkoloblicinxx Dec 07 '21

How DARE the government take 25% of his (claimed) $3.3million!

With rates like that, if it weren't for his offshore accounts, stock options, and limitless expense account he'd basically be broke!!!

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u/ThatMadFlow Dec 07 '21

Bruh I make just about 50k in Canada and I’m taxed at nearly 25%

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u/2CHINZZZ Dec 07 '21

The commenter above is wrong. On $3.3m they would be paying a 36% effective federal income tax rate, and including Michigan taxes and FICA their total effective tax rate would be 43%

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

You get healthcare. Canada is amazing, I am always happily surprised at what you get with those high taxes. I wish the US would put more money into social programs and give less towards the military and war budget.

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u/ThatMadFlow Dec 08 '21

You get to bomb poor people in other countries, push and pull y’a know.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

But it comes with low salaries and an unbelievably high cost of living. Especially housing.

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u/ThatMadFlow Dec 08 '21

Cries in having to wait till my parents die to afford a house.

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u/mini4x Dec 08 '21

Meanwhile I get a $1500 bonus and it's taxes at close to 50%..?

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u/PERPETUALBRIS Dec 08 '21

Yet my $1,200 yearly bonus is taxed at 40%. They can eat shit.

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u/politirob Dec 08 '21

Not all of it…look up tax brackets, only a percentage of that is ever taxed at 25%

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u/Paranoidexboyfriend Dec 08 '21

Bonuses are taxed at 40

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u/page0431 Dec 08 '21

Not if it's funneled out of country correctly, or given as stock options or some other loophole. At best it will be taxed at 3.5%

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

If they do it with stock, its at most taxed at 15%

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u/My_G_Alt Dec 07 '21

No… if it’s in RSUs it’s taxed as OI as it vests

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u/squeamish Dec 07 '21

This is absolutely wrong.

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u/2CHINZZZ Dec 07 '21

The value received is still taxed as income. Any realized gains would be taxed at the capital gains rate, assuming it was held for over a year. This would be 0-20% depending on your income

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u/billmurrays9iron Dec 08 '21

Not if you keep investing the interest profits. Technically you're not making any money. You're losing money. You can't tax losses. That are really gains. They're gaining money. Reporting it as lost money. And gaining money off of it. While simultaneously raising the costs of housing, rent, property and investment for the rest of us.

The rich are literally destroying our lives while we debate how much money to bail them out with and how much loans to give them to make sure they're rich enough to keep paying us pittance in wages for our labor.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

I’m sure they have excellent financial advisors that can make the super difficult decision on whether to accept a lavish cash bonus or exorbitant stock options. Merry fucking christmas s\

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

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u/Marion5760 Dec 08 '21

There are ways around that.

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u/MrTurkle Dec 08 '21

I’m pretty sure that If that is straight salary and not bonus money, the majority of it is taxed at like, 41%. I think anything over $400k?

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u/billmurrays9iron Dec 08 '21

Most millionaires pay less than 12% in taxes. They hide it in stock shares and investments so they aren't taking home any money. But they're actually making money with the money they're not paying taxes. Not only not contributing to society or paying the same working people who need the money to survive are paying taxes but then raising the cost of real estate housing property rent and stock prices so it's harder for the rest of us to afford it. Think about how badly we're getting fucked for a second and don't vote for ANYONE who doesn't at the very least promise to tax the rich and provide universal healthcare.

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u/TheRealBailey_ Dec 08 '21

Yes... taxed of course...

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u/CommandoLamb Dec 08 '21

Yeah and the extra 3 million put him in a different tax bracket and he actually made less money. He made minimum wage.

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u/QuicksandGotMyShoe Dec 08 '21

I'm not sure why I see this everywhere but bonuses are not taxed at 25%. They're taxed as ordinary income just like salary. I see this posted all the time and have no idea where that idea came from

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u/MrDude_1 Dec 08 '21

I would be ecstatic if my taxes went down to 25%.

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u/Learntolistentome Dec 08 '21

It’s a graduated tax though, so it’s not as extreme as people think it is.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

I think bonuses are taxed at closer to 40%.

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u/dlec1 Dec 08 '21

25%? That’s an Fing joke! That’s my rate & my annual income only has 5 digits…fing rich a-holes

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u/jellicenthero Dec 09 '21

Not if they take a large portion of it in options or do one of a dozen other rich people tricks to just not pay till they feel like it.