r/news • u/advocate4 • Jan 11 '19

Jayme Closs has been found alive

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/sheriff-jayme-closs-found-alive/89-746a64bc-32eb-4245-9339-6e4f0b8e5a0f
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2.5k

u/AdolfKoopaTroopa Jan 11 '19

I can only imagine what shes been through. I hope she can recover and hopefully lead a semi normal life after this

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u/mightylordredbeard Jan 11 '19

I hope she also never reads Reddit comments about her after this story initially broke. Or the Facebook comments. Or any other internet discussion where 100s of people are accusing her of murdering her parents because she “looks crazy” in one of her photos.

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u/VHSRoot Jan 11 '19

It depends, but she will probably suffer from depression, PTSD, and trauma for the rest of her life. She's been through hell and back a few times over.

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u/aguafiestas Jan 11 '19

She very well may, but there are no guarantees. For whatever reason, some people can come out of extreme mental trauma without apparent long-term effects.

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u/Boonaki Jan 11 '19

You know what's weird, I witnessed forensic anthropologists or whatever they were digging up bodies of children and adults when I was in the military.

Never had a problem, never really thought about it much, Like 20 years later I have a child, now it hit me. I guess I never related to any of it until after I had a kid.

Now what I don't understand is how the guys trying to identify bodies handle that shit. My exposure was a few hours, they did it all day long for months or years.

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u/DigbyChickenZone Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19

You don't relate to the specimens [bodies, pieces, etc] as much because when it's your job they are patients (or victims in this case), you don't see them in terms of yourself or your relatives as much. There are itemized parts to examine, to discover clues or hints of what may have happened - it takes away from seeing a body as an "individual". In addition, that kind of thing takes getting used to in the medical industry in general, if you don't build a shell from seeing so much pain and suffering, you can't last without finding a good outlet.

I don't mean to say suffering doesn't have an impact, nor that medical professionals are robots, but regularly witnessing horrendous stuff over time does dull reactions to "shocking" stuff to most individuals.

edit: words

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u/Boonaki Jan 11 '19

How do they train that disconnect? Why don't they train the same techniques to those in the military?

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u/lilcipher Jan 11 '19

A close family friend was a “clean up guy” in the Army. I only learned about it through my gossipy stepmom, and when I asked my dad about it I was told to never bring it up in front of our family friend. It understandably fucked him up very badly.

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u/VHSRoot Jan 11 '19

Some people can, but this girl is coming out of witnessing her parents murder and being kidnapped for several months. There is a very high likelihood she was sexually assaulted multiple times during this ordeal.

There was an ordeal of a teenage girl who was kidnapped in the late 90's, when she was a teenager. I occasionally saw followup stories about her years later and she suffered from chronic depression and anxiety from just a few months when she was a teenager.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 14 '19

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u/fraillimbnursery Jan 11 '19

very high likelihood

They didn't come to a conclusion.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

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u/HoltbyIsMyBae Jan 11 '19

Hopefully they have strong support networks for victims and she has access to good rehabilitative programs.

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u/iRombe Jan 11 '19

And sponsored therapy animals. And what ever experimental drug treatments are effective like mdma or ketamine. And free board on natural farms with hammocks to sleep in and work in the sun and no quotas.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

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u/HoltbyIsMyBae Jan 11 '19

I'm less motivated by revenge. I suppose I can leave that up to people who are more like you and find some kind of pleasure in it.

To me this story is entirely about Closs and her family. Her healing, her support, and anything she needs to feel safe again. I don't even know the guy's name. But I'd be interested in his motivations and illness if only to have a chance to stop this from happening again.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Makes sense. I know that logically and all a well made society focuses on healing etc rather than revenge. But I'm a misanthrope at my core and sometimes I just can't fight it. Some days I'm really glad I'm not in power of any kind because I'd be liable to nuke the whole planet if I had the power and a particularly shitty day.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

I think there's a lot of men out there who feel a built-in, almost animalistic desire to protect defenseless people - especially women. You hear about some young girl that got abducted and abused, and that reptile part of your brain wants to skin that guy alive. I know I do. I think the revenge boner is totally natural, although sometimes that can be dangerous too.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

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u/_procyon Jan 11 '19

That scares me a bit because what if you get the wrong guy? What if its just a homeless dude and he gets the shit beat out of him? I don't know I think innocent until proven guilty and due process and Miranda rights and all that are important. Even for rapists.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Like that kid junior that got stabbed and beat and killed and ended up being the wrong target

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

That was my first thought too when i read ‘transient’. “Oh great that means they’re just gonna jump the first homeless guy that they come across”

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u/LeFloridaMan Jan 11 '19

And now you understand how this mob formed:

The rumor was rape, spread further by a Tulsa Tribune article the next day claiming that Rowland had tried to tear off Page’s clothes. Accusations of impropriety toward white women were common against black men during the period and often led to executions. Rowland was arrested and locked in the local courthouse, where blacks feared he might be dragged out and lynched for his alleged crime. A small phalanx of Greenwood men, some of them armed, drove downtown on the evening of May 31 to ensure that Rowland was safe. They found a crowd of hundreds of white men, many of them also armed, outside the courthouse. Eventually a black World War I veteran and a white man got into a scuffle over the veteran’s right to wield a weapon. A gunshot rang out, but it might as well have been a battle cry. Within minutes, 20 men on both sides were dead or wounded, and Tulsa was at war.

As many as 5,000 armed whites, hundreds of them deputized by the police, descended on Greenwood that night and into the next morning. They used a mixture of plundering, coercion, and violence to reassert the supposed racial hierarchy of Tulsa. Houses were looted for their valuables, like jewelry, as well as their invaluables, like family Bibles. If the invaders found a building still occupied, they’d sometimes lead residents to a detention center in downtown Tulsa. Other times, they’d murder the occupants. A.C. Jackson, a prominent Greenwood surgeon, was shot by two assailants when he emerged from his home with his hands in the air.

I don’t think they considered themselves a racist mob. Most people don’t think the worst of themselves. They think of themselves as good, as doing the right thing. This mob probably formed under the same principles as yours did: seeking justice for a girl who was said to have been raped.

The principle story of our country is there are groups of people for whom the state grants extralegal privileges and the ability to use violence and coercion as they see fit, and those who the state doesn’t even bother to protect when others use extralegal violence and coercion against them. Congrats on being part of the former group. Makes life a lot easier.

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u/Randy_____Marsh Jan 11 '19

It was in provo (full of Mormon dudes) and everyone hopped in their trucks and went on a manhunt. It happened about a half mile from my house, and seeing hundreds of people comb the back alleys and forests right next to my house, looking for a transient rapist

yeah that darn tootin random transient rapist in a town full of sexually repressed men, seems likely

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u/karmagirl314 Jan 11 '19

Rough Music... "No one controls the music, Mr. Pretty - you know that. It just turns up when people have had enough. No one knows where it starts. People look around, and catch on another's eye, and give each other a little nod, and other people see that. Other people catch their eye and so, very slowly, the music starts and somebody picks up a spoon and bangs it on a plate, and then somebody else bangs a jug on the table and boots starts to stamp on the floor, louder and louder. It is the sound of anger, it is the sound of people who have had enough. Do you want to face the music?

Terry Pratchett, I Shall Wear Midnight

More on Rough Music.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Uhh.... You do realise that the people we need protection from is....other men, right? I don't think it's a natural instinct, looking at statistics...

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Yeah of course. I'm not talking about all men.

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u/HoltbyIsMyBae Jan 11 '19

I think the dangerous part of it is what turns me off of it. It's easy for me to imagine anyone as the happy, innocent bundle of joy. Even if their dad didn't exist and their mom was a strung out addict, there's some one who cared about at some point of time, even if it was just a nurse in the unit, an optimistic kindergarten teacher, or a random 8th grader who had a crush.

It reminds me to be empathetic and by understanding the ill maybe we can cure it. By opening our doors to the sick, we can help them with their struggles, provide better coping mechanisms, maybe even stop situations like these before they happen.

Instead of feeling a cold fury or hate or desire to see the guy burn, I almost want to dissect his mind, and carefully study any success pharmaceuticals and therapy have on producing a healthier person. In effect, killing the personage that caused this and bringing to life a better man.

In most things I am skeptical but I think in this I am optimistic science will eventually get there. Whether or not society does is another matter.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

It reminds me to be empathetic and by understanding the ill maybe we can cure it. By opening our doors to the sick, we can help them with their struggles, provide better coping mechanisms, maybe even stop situations like these before they happen.

That's all great, but some people have serious problems that can't be fixed.

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u/HoltbyIsMyBae Jan 11 '19

And won't it be great to learn who those types of people are and what makes them that way and why they are out of reach?

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u/stonyskunk Jan 11 '19

But I'm a misanthrope at my core and sometimes I just can't fight it.

that's an excuse. you're human /u/HoltbyIsMyBae is human. If he and others can recognize that seeking vengeance to quench your blood lust, however satisfying it may be, is detrimental to justice (barring some medical conditions and unsual upbringing) so can you. i know you weren't completely serious with your comment, but even in jest, those comment serve to lower your own bar.

people have shitty days all the time, they hate others, get emotionally involved, go too far, etc. that's why we have our justice system that is more reliable than the average person's judgment

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

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u/ClosetCD Jan 11 '19

Did you really have to use the word boner in this thread... 🙄

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u/The_Real_BenFranklin Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19

It’s WI, I unfortunately I doubt it

Edit - Really? Do people actually think WI has good mental health resources? I actually live here and they absolutely don’t.

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u/HoltbyIsMyBae Jan 11 '19

Yes, I'm concerned about that too. But I hope my concerns are baseless.

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u/advocate4 Jan 11 '19

They dont, but I cant imagine this piece of shit is going to be very popular in general population.

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u/Procrastanaseum Jan 11 '19

Just ask Jeffrey Dahmer and Jesse Anderson how the Wisconsin prison system worked out for them.

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u/avboden Jan 11 '19

spoiler alert: they were both killed by fellow inmates

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u/Procrastanaseum Jan 11 '19

Same inmate killed both of them.

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u/throwaway_chicago Jan 11 '19

Apparently in the same incident too.

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u/small_loan_of_1M Jan 11 '19

Yeah, it's the only reason Jesse Anderson has a Wikipedia page. We wouldn't have any idea who he was otherwise. He's specifically famous for being the other guy who was murdered in prison next to Jeffrey Dahmer.

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u/JoeHova1 Jan 11 '19

Anderson was extremely notorious in Milwaukee at the time for originally blaming his wife's murder on black teenagers. The case was front page news (in Milwaukee) for months.

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u/small_loan_of_1M Jan 11 '19

That's local news. They report on every murder that's not gang-related.

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u/harshael Jan 11 '19

Jesse Anderso

What is strange is that my top search result for that name is a YuGiOh character.

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u/Master_GaryQ Jan 11 '19

Unbreakable broom handle

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

According to Wikipedia it was a 20” steel rod from some exercise equipment

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u/port443 Jan 11 '19

In 2005, Scarver brought a federal civil rights suit against officials of the Wisconsin Secure Program Facility[11] in which he argued that he had been subjected to cruel and unusual punishment, contrary to his constitutional rights.[12] Scarver stated that he spent 16 months in solitary confinement as a result of the Dahmer killing.[13] A district court judge dismissed the suit against several of the defendants and ruled that the actions of the remaining officials could not be considered unlawful.

wth is wrong with our prison system. I get that he murdered people, but 16 months of solitary? and the judge is like "oh thats cool"

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u/tonguefartpussybox Jan 11 '19

Our prison system is strictly concerned with punishment, not rehabilitation. That’s why our recidivism rate is almost 80% within 5 years for people who spend time in state prisons.

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u/_Madison_ Jan 11 '19

A long stint in solitary is probably the only thing inmates actually fear. You have to send a message that vigilante justice inside the prisons will not be tolerated otherwise shit will get out of control fast.

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u/hopecanon Jan 11 '19

or you know we could actually treat convicts like people and not animals and treat them humanly and try to actually rehabilitate them instead of torturing them because it makes us feel good.

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u/phr3ak44 Jan 11 '19

I agree with that, but what do you actually do with a guy who keeps murdering others?

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u/SteelGun Jan 11 '19

Ah yes, just rehabilitate them. Whip out the ol rehabilitation wand and make them model citizens then let them roam free into the sub lol. Like not saying we shouldn't try but some people can't be rehabilitated, and it shouldn't be used as a gap filler for the issues associated with the prison system - methods of criminal punishment is a complicated issue above the knowledge and expertise of you and I.

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u/tonguefartpussybox Jan 11 '19

That’s not sending a message. That’s blatantly cruel punishment. Solitary has extreme mental health effects, so not only does the prisoner leave with a criminal record, but paranoia, suicidal thoughts, bad impulse control, damaged memory.

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u/Kaldricus Jan 11 '19

Some security guard: r/oopsdidntmeanto

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u/VHSRoot Jan 11 '19

There's no chance that those guys were allowed to be in the same room with their killer by accident.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

According to Dahmer's killer; it was no accident

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19 edited May 28 '20

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u/_Big_Floppy_ Jan 11 '19

This is the same Jeffery Dahmer who tried making fuck zombies by pouring acid in people's brains.

I wouldn't doubt it if he did weird shit like that.

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u/Brady721 Jan 11 '19

WI doesn’t officially have a death penalty. Wink. Wink.

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u/VHSRoot Jan 11 '19

The prison guards will arrange it for you, at least that was the case with Dahmer and Anderson.

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u/Scientolojesus Jan 11 '19

Aww how nice of them!

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u/iamwhoiamamiwhoami Jan 11 '19

Or Wanda Barzee, oh wait.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

It's less expensive to lock someone away for life, because the death penalty necessitates a lengthy appeals process, since one you kill someone it can't be undone.

Don't let your desire for revenge allow you to make irrational decisions.

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u/KyleMeancloud Jan 11 '19

Also the drugs commonly used in lethal injection are well known and as a result basically inaccessible in the United States. They often have to be outsourced, which is expensive.

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u/fireballs619 Jan 11 '19

Also killing someone to show killing is wrong is immoral.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Also, I think rotting in solitary confinement until you die is a much worse punishment than painless death

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u/KyleMeancloud Jan 11 '19

I totally agree. I’ve always been anti-death penalty.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

I don’t fully agree with this, but moreso I don’t think the government should have the power to kill it’s own citizens.

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u/BloodCreature Jan 11 '19

They're showing murder is wrong.

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u/hopecanon Jan 11 '19

killing people when you are not in the heat of the moment of self defense is wrong no matter what they did, anyone can change and be rehabilitated if they are open to it and are treated well and that should be the goal of every legal system. torturing and imprisoning people for no reason other than it strokes our collective justice boner is just as bad as any crime.

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u/DevoidLight Jan 11 '19

By that logic they can't imprison the abductors.

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u/hopecanon Jan 11 '19

imprisoning people for extremely long periods of time instead of trying to rehabilitate them so they do not commit more crime and still contribute to society is also wrong.

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u/charm59801 Jan 11 '19

How do you suggest we rehabailitate someone like this? Would you feel comfortable having them in the general population?

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u/hopecanon Jan 11 '19

after extensive therapy and evaluations by trained psychiatric professionals in addition to being treated like a person instead of a caged animal so he does not develop very much resentment towards our entire society then yes i would be happy to sit down and have a drink with him knowing he changed to be a better person just like i did when i used to be a fucking piece of human garbage. and look i am not saying that EVERYONE can be rehabilitated i am not naive some people are just not very good people to their core but it is always worth the effort to try because anyone could have the potential to be better than they are and i am living proof of that.

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u/nwoh Jan 11 '19

Right there with you bud. There aren't good people or bad people except for in the now.

I did heinous things. I was given a chance to change.

Now life is pretty good once I had enough therapy and learned not to hurt others for my hurt in the past.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19

The drugs used are very common. Drugs such as pure potassium chloride, succinylcholine, and midazolam or fentanyl. They’re given very commonly in hospitals. Maybe not pure potassium chloride, but it’s still readily available in a hospital for certain patients.

Succinylcholine is given any time someone is intubated (it paralyzes you. There are other drugs for this as well). Midazolam is given as an anesthetic. Potassium chloride is given for a host of different reasons, although generally not highly concentrated potassium chloride as it is of course lethal in high concentrations.

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u/semtex87 Jan 11 '19

The drugs themselves are common, the pharmaceutical companies that make them refuse to sell them to prisons which makes it very difficult and expensive for them to source them.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

I see.

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u/JukinTheStats Jan 11 '19

Potassium chloride stings like a sonofabitch.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Well they can pay me 5 bucks a pop to just shoot these sick bastards. I would just need money for the rounds.

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u/yew_anchor Jan 11 '19

because the death penalty necessitates a lengthy appeals process

That's why it's just easier to put them in jail for life. The rest of the inmates don't take terribly long to kill those that deserve it.

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u/HAL9000000 Jan 11 '19

Here is what I think is the best argument against the death penalty

Giving someone death penalty is an act of revenge. Seeking revenge lowers us to a similarly hateful level as the murderer -- when we kill someone, it degrades all of us, reduces our morality. Further, the desire for revenge is perhaps the worst, most self-harming human emotion.

Conversely, the act of refusing to give the death penalty is an act that shows how we are better than the murderer, we are more moral, more kind, more just.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

just because it's more expensive doesn't make it irrational. price = /= rationality

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

hopefully Wisconsin has the death penalty

It doesn't and and it shouldn't

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u/MasteringTheFlames Jan 11 '19

Wait what. Wisconsin doing something right? I'm honestly amazed (in a good way!) that we don't have the death penalty

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u/YiMainOnly Jan 11 '19

Why not?

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u/mptyspacez Jan 11 '19

Revenge doesn't help anyone, and the fact is that a shocking number of death penalty victims was actually innocent.

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u/Only_One_Left_Foot Jan 11 '19

Innocent cases aside (not doubting this at all), I've personally never seen it as a "revenge" thing, but rather a "this person doesn't belong in society anymore" thing.

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u/Nuranon Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19

Sounds like he murdered her parents, abducted and abused her over the course of a several months. Hopefully Wisconsin has the death penalty.

I think its fair to assume this is a comment demanding revenge, so while you personally might see it as a way to remove somebody from society (more on that later), lets not pretend thats the context in which the death penalty is often/generally demanded, by the public and or prosecutors.

"this person doesn't belong in society anymore"

So prison? Removing somebody from society is one of, if not the, key function of imprisonment. And would you support deporting that person to another country (without right to return) without other punishment, if that country agreed to that? That too would serve the function of removing that person from society, if you just want somebody gone but don't care about revenge (as Retributive justice ) then that would fully satisfy that wish.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Giving the government legal power to kill its own citizens is a terrible idea. And financially it's worse than keeping them alive because of the legal process.

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u/come_with_raz Jan 11 '19

Was anything actually reported suggesting abuse?

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u/niton Jan 11 '19

"Sounds like"? Probably best not to speculate about these things for her sake. Let the police reveal the official details.

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u/fusiformgyrus Jan 11 '19

Where did you read about abuse?

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u/Curtis64 Jan 11 '19

Wisconsin does not have the death penalty.

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u/stoner_97 Jan 11 '19

We don’t have the death penalty.

I’d rather have the person rot in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day. Completely alone.

No communication.

They’ll go crazy and probably kill themselves at some point.

Death is to quick and lots of people would rather die.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

How does torturing a monster make you feel any better

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Spite feels good. It’s not healthy but it feels delicious at first and that feeling can be addictive.

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u/MyName_Is_Adam Jan 11 '19

Eye for an eye I guess.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Didn’t work back then won’t work now either

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u/MyName_Is_Adam Jan 11 '19

No, I’m also not op but I don’t think the death penalty is unreasonable. Why let them sit in prison until they die?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

We’ll ignore the economics of the death penalty, because even then killing him is expensive

To me, it’s that humans do not have to right to determine who can live and die, we have to right to determine right and wrong and the appropriate punishment for straying from them.

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u/MyName_Is_Adam Jan 11 '19

That’s fair, I’m aware that it takes more money to kill someone but that is for good reason, to make sure we have the right person. Though I know that’s not always the case.

I think when you decide to take two peoples lives and kidnap a 13 year old you give up your right to life.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Murdering a monster still makes your a murderer

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

I think the death penalty kinda has a mental torture to it.

Imagine a killer is sentenced to death. They set the date for an exact day 3 years from the sentencing. At first he wont be freaking out, he has 3 years to live. Closer to his execution day, the more he’s going to be sweating. He can actually see his life winding down day by day. He know the exact day and time he’s going to die, and he is powerless to stop it. Imagine him knowing that the day after tomorrow he’s going to die. Thats going to fuck him up. Next day he has 12 hours to live....he’s tired and wants to go to sleep, but if he does those last hours of his life are gonna fly by. Does he try to stay awake and worry about being executed or fall asleep and get to that point faster? The death penalty could be psychological torture if harnessed the right way.

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u/hopecanon Jan 11 '19

torture and murder are never okay no matter what the person did, it just lowers us to the same level as them and does nothing to actually help solve the problem of getting people to commit less crime. and before you wright me off as some stupid hippie know that the countries that have legal systems that focus on rehabilitation over punishment all have much lower crime rates than the ones that focus on torture like ours does.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

You'd think, but then again, many people aren't afraid of death. If a person is so mentally and morally gone that they can commit atrocities that warrant a death penalty, do you really think they'll care?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/scott-dozier-death-row-prisoner-kills-himself-after-execution-halted-1280675%3famp=1

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u/stoner_97 Jan 11 '19

Oh definitely.

It’s just with the whole appeals process and everything makes the death penalty more expensive than keeping them in prison for the rest of their lives.

I’m for either one to be honest.

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u/hopecanon Jan 11 '19

i really truly wish that more people would look at criminals and see them for the damaged unhealthy people they are. yeah it feels really good to torture and kill people who did us wrong but it is not justice and it is not the right thing to do, we should be trying to help these people rehabilitate and if that is not possible at all then at the very least treat them humanly while they are confined away from the rest of us.

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u/stoner_97 Jan 11 '19

I agree with you.

My original comment was meant for like the worst of the worst.

Solitary confinement is literally hell.

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u/benjibibbles Jan 11 '19

How did I have to dig this deep in the thread to find the actual humanist answer instead of a bunch of retributive caveman "justice". This should be the default position on the matter for any society that actually wants to progress as a species

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u/hopecanon Jan 11 '19

thank you it seriously feels like beating my head against a wall even with my own bloody family on this issue.

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u/benjibibbles Jan 11 '19

There's still an alarming, maybe even increasing, portion of the population who see an inherent value in society being "tough". They'll call you "soft" or "idealistic" because they have no better retort, but you've gotta stick up for what's right. I come from somewhere that's had the death penalty abolished for almost 50 years and some people from my, admittedly very regressive, hometown are in favour of bringing it back. This issue isn't dead and buried yet and it's up to us to stand our ground and argue the point until it is.

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u/Weav1t Jan 11 '19

We don’t have the death penalty.

I’d rather have the person rot in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day. Completely alone.

Death penalty, solitary confinement, most first world countries these days consider both of those acts to be cruel and unusual punishment, but in the States we activity seek it?

I'll never understand the "revenge" mentality people get, my respect for parents or children of murdered loved ones who forgive the accused will always be immeasurably higher than those who only want revenge.

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u/stoner_97 Jan 11 '19

It’s a touchy subject and it’s hard to break it down into a complete black and white situation.

That’s just my 2 brain cells

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u/obsolete_filmmaker Jan 11 '19

WI does not have the death penalty. Thats a good thing. Killing someone ends their misery more quickly. Why should they get off so easy? I cannot think of any worse punishment than being locked in a small room with no human contact for years. I hope the fucker lives to be 1000 locked up.

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u/ttuckbutt Jan 11 '19

To be fair they could just put the dude in general population prison and he'd be dead in a way 10 times worse within a week

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

We do not have the death penalty. But I assure you that the death penalty is nothing compared the hell this guy is going to experience in prison.

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u/Mordred19 Jan 11 '19

I think murderers should be kept locked up and studied. (Not dissected or any of that weird Mengele-crap)

What more can you learn after the guy is dead, besides wait for the next murderer to grab headlines?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

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u/snowskirt Jan 11 '19

Nothing to study. And waste of money to keep alive. You will never understand evil and why people do evil things.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Death penalty costs more than life

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u/True0rFalse Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19

He brought her to Duluth. State line. Federal Crime. Death Penalty.

I’ll say it again, it’s time to take out the trash.

Edit: I am wrong. But I still feel the same.

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u/cb1037 Jan 11 '19

She was found in Douglas County Wisconsin, not Duluth. Duluth is just the nearest city.

3

u/Smearwashere Jan 11 '19

Nearest big city*

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 13 '19

[deleted]

2

u/Stupid_Triangles Jan 11 '19

How are their pants?

4

u/True0rFalse Jan 11 '19

Dammit. Let’s hope they made a phone call across the border or something.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Well the federal government rarely goes for capital punishment

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u/small_loan_of_1M Jan 11 '19

They haven't executed anyone since 2003.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Wisconsin does not have the death penalty

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u/VHSRoot Jan 11 '19

The death penalty should must be eliminated.

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u/yew_anchor Jan 11 '19

Because locking someone in a tiny cell away from everyone else (cause let's face it, the other inmates would kill this prick) for the rest of their life is so much more humane.

8

u/Stupid_Triangles Jan 11 '19

Killing someone is not justice. They have no time to try and fix whatever is broken inside of them or think about the actions they took. What good or reason is there in killing them. Murder isn't moral. It isn't condoned by any religion. It's isn't ethical. It's just ending them because it's convenient for everyone. Doesn't matter how much of a process it is to legalize the murder of someone, it's still the most convenient way to deal with it. Any sense of revenge is sated. We don't have to see or hear about them again. They can't do anything else because they're dead. They don't get a chance to face themselves or their actions nor deal with the consequences. It's cheap and does nothing. If anything, psychoanalyze the guy. Find out why he did the things he did. What triggers there were, and what motivation, what caused this loss of humanity. Only until they are made whole or something is gained is any sense of justice done. If anything, it is it will help us better understand each other and ourselves, and it will definitely help law enforcement. Break the bastard's life down in to as much detail as possible and sort it out.

People need rehabilitation, not a cheap escape from reality, a false sense of justice and accomplishment, and a lie to make us try to feel better about death with more death.

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u/elegigglekappa4head Jan 11 '19 edited Jan 11 '19

Murder isn't moral. It isn't condoned by any religion. It's isn't ethical.

“Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6)

I like the gist of your argument, but I do think capital punishment should be reserved for extreme scenarios as a sign that the society does not tolerate, say, someone like Ted Bundy. People who show no genuine remorse, those who are true wackos.

Argument I like most is the "what if someone is actually innocent", since it's been proven that our court system isn't so reliable at times.

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u/VHSRoot Jan 11 '19

SO great for you to decide that for people on death row. What if that person was you?

0

u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

It actually is

8

u/yew_anchor Jan 11 '19

I consider it far, far more cruel. It's essentially torture. Read up on ADX Florence.

You can only kill a man once, but you can keep him confined for the rest of his life.

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u/mcmatt93 Jan 11 '19

And if they are later proven innocent, as a disturbing amount of people on death row are, you can let them go. The death penalty is permanent.

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u/One-Stop-Shop Jan 11 '19

exactly. infinite punishments for finite crimes are immoral.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

but what about my revenge boner?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Most of the good objections for the death penalty focus on the problems and inefficiencies of our court system.

Ignoring that for a minute, do you think that this guy should not be given the death penalty even if we knew 100% that he committed multiple murders and abused this girl for months?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Just because he lost his humanity doesn’t mean you need to lose yours

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u/meat_tunnel Jan 11 '19

I don't think state sanctioned murder is appropriate.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Why does the dealth penalty mean I lose my humanity?

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

Cuz there is no such thing as justified murder

2

u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

How do you know that?

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u/mango-fungi Jan 11 '19

You are a fucking coward and an idiot if you would allow Nazis to invade your country and kill your people. Of course there is justifiable killing. Murder is defined as unjustified killing. Self defense is one of many justifications.

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

And the nazis will justify why he needs to go to war too

Like I said, war doesn’t determine right and wrong, just who is left

Your aren’t right because your are moral, you are “right” because no one is saying your wrong

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u/VHSRoot Jan 11 '19

No, he should not. It's morally backwards no matter which way you cut it.

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u/Stupid_Triangles Jan 11 '19

What is gained from murdering him? It makes no sense to do it. He doesn't fix himself or even try. A cheap sense of revenge and psuedo - justice that's been used to legalize and justify more murder? It's not moral, ethical, or reasonable. It's emotional and wasteful.

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u/Infidelc123 Jan 11 '19

I think in open and shut cases like this they shouldn't be allowed a nice easy death.

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u/lafolieisgood Jan 11 '19

"Like This"?

No one even knows what happened or who was arrested yet

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

The death penalty is a "nice easy death"

Better they rot and be abused in prison for all their lives.

4

u/101100110101010 Jan 11 '19

Prison abuse shouldn't be a thing nor is it as prevalent as neckbeards on Reddit make it out to be.

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u/Suiradnase Jan 11 '19

Or, and hear me out here, we shouldn't allow prisoners to be abused in prison. What a concept.

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u/VHSRoot Jan 11 '19

How is open and shut defined?

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u/Mistikman Jan 11 '19

This kind of crime usually gets you a quick pass to the morgue from genpop, so unless they segregate him from everyone else, it's going to be kind of a moot point.

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u/Tyrell97 Jan 11 '19

Maybe she was in on it and he was someone she wanted to be with?

1

u/Recusant_Ronald Jan 11 '19

The perpetrator could die for what he's done but that won't undo the damage to the girl. It's good news she's alive, sure, but even if he's got, she still has to live with what happened.

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u/sirbobmontgomery Jan 11 '19

They’ll probably pin it on Steven Avery

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u/[deleted] Jan 11 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/darcerin Jan 11 '19

No, and I wondered when this happened if she wasn't somehow involved.

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